Dreaded Re-Gen Thing

[mtnrider]

I was just reading a post about a BCM and its function and it brought up the question of just what function does that BCM play. I also was wondering just where all the messages i am getting are coming from concerning the DPF. So, question is, are these messages coming from the PCM or the BCM? I am pretty sure all the DTC's come from the PCM. So when a sensor fails i assume that the BCM detects it and sends the message to the PCM which then creates the DTC? Any info to clarify would be much appreciated.

Engine and emission related issues are going to be reported by the PCM/ECM.
BCM handles things like lights and other electronic modules (blind spot, door modules, seat modules etc)

BCM- Body control module
ECM- Engine control module

.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Ok I am back after getting my ALFAOBD and tablet all loaded and ready to go. Had lots of trouble downloading the APP and making it work on the Fire tablet i had and turns out it was a Kindle and will NOT work with Alfaobd. Installed it on a cheapie and it works like it should.
So first thing i did was do some scrolling just to get an idea what its like,, Awesome!! It will do just about anything the dealer can do.
I had to use the 2018 + Ram feature as an engine BC the 2020 was not in my APP. seemed to work ok.
Selected ENGINE and went to the DPF Replace section and clicked on it. That reset my DPF gauge back to zero.
Then using same page i selected the regeneration option and hit Start. FAILED.
Went to the CLEAR FAULTS and tried to clear faults but would not do that.
It would clear all faults EXCEPT these, P2463 and P2BAC. DPF full and some sort of EGR malfunction. Has new EG valve along with all the sensors. Nothing i did would clear these two.
So am just going to do a partial Delete on this thing. Another nightmare. SO many of the kits out there and they all claim to be the best. Called a couple of companies and got some one on phone each time that could barely speak English so gave up on that angle.
One question i have and can not find the answer on the net, is there a way to clear these pesty codes using ALFAOBD?
So, another question is, can someone recommend a tried and true kit that i can install that will actually do the job. This is the 2020 Ram 3500 6.7 HO engine.
Thanks for any help.

 

[nlambert182]

What do you mean by partial delete? There's either a full delete, or no delete. If you mean you'll just remove the DPF and unplug everything else and tune that makes sense. Either way you're getting rid of it all.

FloPro makes a great delete pipe.
For tuners, H&S Minimax & RaceMe have been 2 that I've used in the past with great results. Dunno about others.

Avoid the Chinese kits, like Spelab. Tuner Depot makes some really nice kits.

 

[DirtyHarry]

I just wanted to add a little something here that i have been pondering about this whole diesel DPF thing.
Before DPF got started by someone in the government who probably owned the company that makes these things, we could see diesel trucks rolling down the highway , smoke rolling out the stack and that soot would spread out over the entire trip. So if he drove 500 miles there was black smoke the 500 miles.
Now take that same 500 mile trip but now you have a DPF the will regenerate several times over that trip and dump that same amount of soot except now it will dump it in short bursts, maybe 100 miles apart.
So what have the govt gurus solved by having the dpf? same soot as before? Is it "cleaner" soot?
Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[David Oakes]

Il
Now take that same 500 mile trip but now you have a DPF the will regenerate several times over that trip and dump that same amount of soot except now it will dump it in short bursts, maybe 100 miles apart.
So what have the govt gurus solved by having the dpf? same soot as before? Is it "cleaner" soot?
Just my 2 cents worth.

I haven't seen a dpf cause any black smoke during a regen in many years and that happened during a forced stationary regen on an almost full dpf.

The dpf catches the black soot (unburnt diesel fuel) and then when the sensor says that the dpf is full of that soot, a regen is initiated to turn that soot into fine ash, which is kept in the dpf. It just takes up a significantly smaller space. Now when the sensors decide that the ash has filled the dpf so much that another regen won't work, and that should be at or above 350,000 miles (guven the size of the dpf on my 3500s - which is half that of the dpfs on my kenworth 5 tons, one of which made it to 900,000 kilometers before full), the dpf then has to be replaced. No black soot "dumped" on the side of the road.

 

[nlambert182]

True. There will be zero black smoke from these trucks with emissions in tact. Quite frankly even if deleted, if a good tune is used and kept on stock levels, you will barely see any black smoke if any at all.

As for making it 350k miles.... that's extremely unlikely even if you are towing heavy the whole time. These systems just have too many issues (not just Cummins) to see many of them make it much past the 150k mile mark. I can't say that I ever saw many get past 200k when I was a service writer at a Cummins dealer. For many who use these trucks as occasional rv towers and grocery getters around the 100-120k mile mark seems to be where things start to get sketcky.

 

[crash68]

Now take that same 500 mile trip but now you have a DPF the will regenerate several times over that trip and dump that same amount of soot except now it will dump it in short bursts, maybe 100 miles apart.
So what have the govt gurus solved by having the dpf? same so

If the truck is regen every hundred miles while traveling on the freeway, there's problems with the engine/emissions. Depending on the load of trailer the truck may have to do an active regen once in 500 miles.
Also it's not soot that comes out of a DPF from a regen, it's actually ash as the soot in the DPF is burned off.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Ok i was thinking about all that so get on net and started looking. Found out that the ASH is not expelled as i thought, it actually stays in the DPf until the very end when that DPF gets full. Thats when it fails. The ash will not come out on its own. No, thats done in a shop where they cut it open and remove the ash and weld it back together. Now, what do they do with that ash?? I guess it goes to the landfill. Another thing, if you burn anything you will get ash and in order to get ash there will be smoke. Nothing will burn without producing SMOKE. Dark, white or invisible? Just my thoughts for today.

 

[LouM]

Ok i was thinking about all that so get on net and started looking. Found out that the ASH is not expelled as i thought, it actually stays in the DPf until the very end when that DPF gets full. Thats when it fails. The ash will not come out on its own. No, thats done in a shop where they cut it open and remove the ash and weld it back together. Now, what do they do with that ash?? I guess it goes to the landfill. Another thing, if you burn anything you will get ash and in order to get ash there will be smoke. Nothing will burn without producing SMOKE. Dark, white or invisible? Just my thoughts for today.

Any common rail fuel system with a decent tune will not smoke even with a straight pipe unless sitting at max power for a continuous period.
DPF's can be removed and cleaned, either by washing or burning out and blowing out.

A common rail injection system can make more power and get better fuel economy then any mechanical injected engine can even dream of.

 

[nlambert182]

Ok i was thinking about all that so get on net and started looking. Found out that the ASH is not expelled as i thought, it actually stays in the DPf until the very end when that DPF gets full. Thats when it fails. The ash will not come out on its own. No, thats done in a shop where they cut it open and remove the ash and weld it back together. Now, what do they do with that ash?? I guess it goes to the landfill. Another thing, if you burn anything you will get ash and in order to get ash there will be smoke. Nothing will burn without producing SMOKE. Dark, white or invisible? Just my thoughts for today.

So to explain HOW the SCR system works and why there is no smoke (of any sort)....

The sooty exhaust gas leaves the engine and flows through a NOx sensor. When the sensor sees excessive nitrogen oxide levels, it triggers the DEF injector to spray urea (essentially ammonia) onto a catalyst. That creates a chemical reaction that converts NOx to nitrogen, water, and a little CO2. Then the left over soot passes through the particulate filter (DPF) where it is captured and kept as ash. The only thing coming out the tailpipe are the 3 things I mentioned above. The only thing you'll smell is the urea (reminds me of a pool chlorine smell) and you shouldn't see any type of smoke. Invisible is not smoke, that's gas.

I've seen a few over the years sometimes produce a tiny bit of water vapor after an active regen, but that's primarily the water created from the SCR process. You'll sometimes see a trail in the bottom of the exhaust pipe. If you're seeing any other kind of "smoke" you have a different problem.

Common rail systems burn much more efficiently, so even without any of the SCR system, the 6.7 doesn't produce much (if any) smoke unless you are dumping more fuel than the engine can burn. That's typically only when someone tunes one to crank up the HP. A quality stock tune, using close to stock fuel maps doesn't create smoke.

 

[06 Dodge]

Attached below is a diagram of the FCA diesel emission system, it shows that DEF is injected after the DPF and before the SCR:

 

[DirtyHarry]

Just to keep all in the loop here and provide some info that maybe someone down the line can use. Yesterday i went to a muffler shop and they installed a "race" pipe on my 2020 Ram 3500 for $400 dollars. Making it and installing it for that much was a bargain BC just the pipe on the net is $350, best deal i could find, and then i would have to install it. So muffler shop it was. I had more power right away and shifted somewhat differently. Not sure why.
So today took it for a spin and after about 5 miles i hear this "DING ****" and the dash lit up with "152 miles before limp mode of max speed of 5MPH". LOL. I knew it was coming.
Am buying a used Mini Maxx V2 from a local guy and will pick it up tomorrow and that should do the trick in finishing off the delete. I understand that little item will eliminate all those nasty codes.
I plan to leave everything in place as to the EGR system, however i been trying to find a "BLOCK OFF PLATE" i can install under the egr valve and leave it in place. I see the kits and they all have a plate but they do not look like they would fit UNDER the EGR valve. Anyone have an idea as to who has them for sale? Yes, i have contacted some who actually listed their numbers but they are answering services in INdia or where ever. I have sent emails to two others and no answers yet. So guess they are all hiding from EPA?
May have to fabricate my own EGR valve plate?

 

[nlambert182]

Nope... it's not meant to be installed under the EGR valve. The blockoff plate is used to remove it and isn't meant to be sandwiched between.

If one were going to leave it on, it just needs to be unplugged. The throttle control valve also has to be unplugged as well.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Nope... it's not meant to be installed under the EGR valve. The blockoff plate is used to remove it and isn't meant to be sandwiched between.

If one were going to leave it on, it just needs to be unplugged. The throttle control valve also has to be unplugged as well.

Ok i think the light bulb just came on. So if i unplug it (the EGR valve) the exhaust will not recirculate? That is what i am after. I just wanted to make sure that no gas would come back through the intake.
Also, i just wanted to clarify that the throttle control valve it that gizsmo sitting above the EGR cooler? Looks like it has a cable around a pully?
Also, this confirms i would never make a mechanic. LOL

 

[nlambert182]

No... the throttle control valve is directly beneath the egr valve.

The egr valve, if unplugged, will remain closed and won't circulate exhaust through the intake, correct.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Oh ok. Guess i unplugged the wrong thing. It did not seem to affect the engine anyway. LOL. So now i decided to not buy a tuner just yet BC i am not settled on any one of them in particular until i find answers to a couple of questions.
I am looking for a tuner that once i install the tune on the truck i want to just remove the tuner and put it away. I also want a tuner that i can use on two trucks BC i have an '07 with 378K miles that i keep for a "spare". I deleted it in '09 and just removed the exhaust system and just had to embrace that CEL and listen to a bell every half hour or so. Got used to it and just ignore it.
So, am looking for a tuner capable of tuning 2 trucks and i can remove it from both and the tune stays there. Do they make one? Not afraid of the cost BC that DPF has reduced all my fears to ashes. I have learned from the net and reading about all those horror stories of DPF problems that will NEVER be resolved, telling me that there is no hope for the truck that has the problems. Kinda like a lemon car,,,it can't be fixed.

 

[DirtyHarry]

No... the throttle control valve is directly beneath the egr valve.

The egr valve, if unplugged, will remain closed and won't circulate exhaust through the intake, correct.

I meant to quote you on my previous post but it did not happen the way i wanted. I have read a lot of your posts and you seem to have a vast array of experience on tuners. I just can not find the answer i am looking for and the questions are in my previous post. Soooo, maybe you can help me on that. Thanks.

 

[mtnrider]

I am looking for a tuner that once i install the tune on the truck i want to just remove the tuner and put it away. I also want a tuner that i can use on two trucks BC i have an '07 with 378K miles that i keep for a "spare". I deleted it in '09 and just removed the exhaust system and just had to embrace that CEL and listen to a bell every half hour or so. Got used to it and just ignore it.
So, am looking for a tuner capable of tuning 2 trucks and i can remove it from both and the tune stays there. Do they make one? Not afraid of the cost BC that DPF has reduced all my fears to ashes. I have learned from the net and reading about all those horror stories of DPF problems that will NEVER be resolved, telling me that there is no hope for the truck that has the problems. Kinda like a lemon car,,,it can't be fixed.

Ezlynk can tune 2 trucks as long as you purchase tuning for each one, you may have to create 2 accounts on it and log into the appropriate one but that's not an issue. It also does not stay on the truck, you flash the ECM and then you can remove it.




.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Ezlynk can tune 2 trucks as long as you purchase tuning for each one, you may have to create 2 accounts on it and log into the appropriate one but that's not an issue. It also does not stay on the truck, you flash the ECM and then you can remove it.




.

Oh OK. I will look into that. I have been researching the RaceMe Ultra for last couple of hours and it looks like it also may do the same thing. It has 4 licenses , 1 is free with the tuner and you have to pay $150 for other 3. They have not answered my emails, being Weekend of course.

 

[nlambert182]

I won't say I have vast experience by any means... I just know what I've researched and the few I've had experience with. You are not required to keep the RaceMe in the truck either if you don't want it. I like it for the additional monitoring it provides.