DSP Users - Spread your knowledge

[BradKnob]

I thought about it. If I had an extensive music collection, I prob would have done it by now. Literally the only album I own is tht ****** ass U2 album that came with the iOS 8 update. Fkn hate that band.

There supposed to be a remote coming out for the helix that would allow me to make and changes that I would need on the fly.


But.... U never know.

 

[DavidRam]

I thought about it. If I had an extensive music collection, I prob would have done it by now. Literally the only album I own is tht ****** ass U2 album that came with the iOS 8 update. Fkn hate that band.

There supposed to be a remote coming out for the helix that would allow me to make and changes that I would need on the fly.


But.... U never know.

Personally, I think the Asus is to nice to build it in to the cab. A simple cheap tablet would do the job.

Don't get me started on how much I hate U2, also!!! How the hell did they become so successful, they have no talent and... oops, I started. End of rant.

 

[troutspinner]

Wah! DSP ws not delivered today. UPS tracking said it was scheduled for this Monday but was re-scheduled for early delivery for today. I guess that never happened....not to mention the shipper messed up my address but that should be rectified.

I guess I'll do some work this weekend so that I can screw off on Tuesday to do the install.

 

[DavidRam]

Damn! Sorry to hear... You are gonna have to find something else hair raising to do on your bachelor Saturday.

 

[troutspinner]

Bored so I looked further into the time alignment. The software is screwy, it's in the translation from MS to CM where they screwed up. So if you are using a DEQ.8, use ErinH's Calculator to get your MS values.

On another note. Since I have given in to not running rear fill (temporarily....until I am convinced by my own install) does anyone have any negative reason I should not dedicate my rear channels for my sub?

I figure if the radio fade is centered and if a song that comes on is too loud or too quiet on bass, I can go into my fader screen and go a notch one way or the other. The digital version of a bass knob I guess. Thoughts?

 

[troutspinner]

This is a graph of 6 measurements averaged, 1/3 smoothing in my current setup WITHOUT A DSP. EQ on the HU is flat, that does not mean a lot, High, Mid and Low is not a lot of control.

Just for education I was hoping you guys could look at this graph and tell me what it means to you. Honestly, it does not tell me anything! Ok, it does a little but it does not trigger anything in my brain about adjusting a crossover, adjusting a frequency yes but for info sake, if my DSP to come put out a graph like this, what would you do?

Thanks

 

[BradKnob]

Looks nice and smooth. Look at smoothed to 1/12 or greater. That's when you will see where the problems are. Look at the right vs left side too. Basically what your looking at is an average of the two sides

 

[troutspinner]

Looks nice and smooth. Look at smoothed to 1/12 or greater. That's when you will see where the problems are. Look at the right vs left side too. Basically what your looking at is an average of the two sides

When you say look at the left and right side, do you mean my measurements from the left and the right or is there something in the program that divides L&R?

 

[BradKnob]

When you say look at the left and right side, do you mean my measurements from the left and the right or is there something in the program that divides L&R?

Sorry, I meant measure the right side by itself then measure the left side by itself. You will notice their responses will be different. From there you EQ each side to match each other.

With factory head unit, u may be able to use the fader to get left and right to play separately. With the DSP u can mute whichever speaker u need to

 

[troutspinner]

Gotcha. Thank you.

 

[BradKnob]

Gotcha. Thank you.

No problem, I'm still figuring this all out myself but one of the best results I've noticed when I first started was once I got the left and right sides matched.

Notice in this pic, how the left and right sides have pretty different responses...




When you measure them both simultaneously, your basically just getting the average of the two. This plus showing them smoothed to 1/12 or so really shows you where the problem spots are. Notice 200-500 hz or so? You can see a drastic difference in both sides.

 

[troutspinner]

Makes a lot of sense. Today's test was just for learning as you are helping me do. No tuning will be done until I receive the DSP (fingers crossed tomorrow!) and then I will have the control I need to measure one speaker at a time.

To take this further........Please tell me if I am on track.

My DSP has a 31 Band Graphical EQ on every Input Channel and a 6 way adjustable Parametric EQ on every output channel.

Is that GEQ intended to be for "my ears" or is it intended to be used in conjunction with achieving a flat response...or both...or I am confused!

In my mind, I would think that you would use the Parametric EQ to get each speaker as flat as possible, within the manufacturer specs of course and the GEQ would be what I would use to create the shape of the music I like to listen to.

Thoughts?

 

[DavidRam]

I am going back and forth between walking the dsp road alone or paying a pro... Ofcourse, alone I have you guys, but I feel like a retard sometimes needing help with every single step.

I don't understand anything on the last few posts.

 

[troutspinner]

I am not sure I understand the last few posts either! It's just my way of asking/understanding and hoping someone who can confirm understands what I am asking. So to sum it up, don't try to understand it! LOL

There is no shame in going to a Pro. If my beer refrigerator breaks, I'm not going to try and fix it. I'll call the guy who knows how to fix it. I may however drink all of the beer before it gets warm.

What is really helping me right now is the mindsp site. The DEQ.8 we are using David is a minidsp in a fancy package. Goto this link Applications and do some reading, it might help?

The site has helped explain to me my earlier questions about the difference of GEQ and PEQ but what I am finding REALLY interesting right now is that REW has minidsp support for Auto-EQ'ing.

Using the EQ feature in REW you can take a test measurement and then match your response to the target. So it takes the measurement, you enter in the values of your desired target response and REW will return the values for correction. You then enter those values into the DEQ.8 PEQ portion of the software. It essentially takes the manual work out of it.

There are many values that I need to learn about in REW yet to have a better understanding of this feature but I think our job just got alot easier.

 

[DavidRam]

Thanks for that link. There's really good info there.

 

[BradKnob]

This site helped me understand parametric eq a little better...

http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-use-a-parametric-equalizer--audio-2301


I'm still learning about it really. The PEQ helps you fine tune the graphic eq. When u start trying to auto eq in REW it may tell you to adjust 150hz to -4db with a Q Factor of 5. Well the GEQ only has 125hz and 160hz bands that you can adjust. That's when you would go to the PEQ where you can select the exact freq and adjust it.

 

[troutspinner]

It's Here! AND It's Installed!

I have the gains and crossovers set up and have already started rough PEQ'ing the mids and tweets and have actually made it sound better!

I need a break though, it is hard on the ears after a while. You don't even realize it until you walk away. I doubt I will do any more today but it is at least listenable right now.

My idea of dedicating the rear channel of my HU to the subs worked really well. If I want a sub boost, I just fade to the rear.

Brad, I think I am understanding but I had a different, possibly wrong approach. My inputs each have their own GEQ and my outputs have their own PEQ. I adjusted the PEQ to get each speaker as flat as possible. I thought GEQ would be the last thing to adjust to shape the overall sound?

Should I be using the GEQ first and then only use the PEQ to take care of the nasty areas?

 

[Etroze86]

TA is going to be a big imporvment and is something I do after I set my gains. I believe you would use the PEQ for the very fine tuning so it sounds good to your ears as it was explained that it is a lot easier to blend with that adjustment.

 

[troutspinner]

Ok, I was going reverse then. When you tune, do you try to achieve a flat line or do you tune to a curve template?

My thought now is to make the signal as flat as possible across all inputs using the GEQ. Then use the PEQ to correct each individual output further as needed. At that point I would have a "clean" setup and then I would go back to the GEQ's to adjust my overall sound preference? Am I on target?

Thanks Bradknob and Etroze86

 

[Etroze86]

Flat is where I believe you would want to be in a competition but don't quote me on that. Most people try to model a curve called "jbl curve" which brings out the bass and tames the highs, as people natrually enjoy a little more bass.