Engine Cooling System Efficiency 5.7 Hemi

[Mister Luck]

thermostat, radiator, restrictor plate, coolant, 195 degree, high flow, towing,
double pass radiator, cross flow radiator,
replacement, engineering radiators, fabrication

 

[aeromax4]

Just fyi,
My Jeep GC Limited 4.7 has the stat located on the bottom end, not the top.

 

[Mister Luck]

Just fyi,
My Jeep GC Limited 4.7 has the stat located on the bottom end, not the top.

It's opposite of that.Suction side is bottom of engine aka lower rad hose,top side is pressure or pump side.That's why the bottom hose has a spring inside it to keep it from collasping under suction.They're also a reverse flow cooling system,same as pretty well all modern engines

areomax4

Maybe your system is different I thought 4.7 top hose went into the block?
Do you have a diagram or picture
I’m curious… I’ll see if I can find one
wild one should know

 

[Wild one]

areomax4

Maybe your system is different I though 4.7 top hose went into the block?
Do you have a diagram or picture
I’m curious… I’ll see if I can find one
wild one should know

The 4.7's thermostat is in the lower hose. Never really looked into why though.

 

[Dusty]

But does 8 degrees really matter that much. I wonder if they would have gone up a few degrees if it would have helped the 4.7 sludging issue??

They moved the PCV valve from the engine oil fill tube to the rear of the engine on later versions of the 4.7. This was done to prevent the condensation of moisture in the crankcase forming water on the inside of the cool, oil fill tube.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 067939 miles.

 

[Dusty]

One of the original ideas for mounting the thermostat at the water pump was to speed up cabin heat. From the DT service manual:


"The cooling system is pressurized and uses a centrifugal water pump to circulate coolant throughout the system. A separate and remotely mounted, coolant recovery bottle is used. When the engine is cold the thermostat is closed and the cooling system has no flow through the radiator or the transmission oil heater. The coolant flows through the engine, engine oil cooler, water pump, EGR Cooler, transmission oil heater, and passenger compartment heater core while the thermostat is closed. When the engine is warm the thermostat is full open and coolant will then flow through the radiator."

Yes, there's a contradiction in the above descriptive statement. The system description in the transmission section corrects it:

"This vehicle features an active transmission warm-up system with an oil-coolant heat exchanger on the transmission. The hoses are connected to the engine cooling system. The engine cooling circuit has both a three-way valve for coolant and a bypass valve in the transmission oil cooling circuit so the transmission oil can be warmed up more quickly from a cold start, which reduces parasitic loss from the drag of the spinning gears. If the transmission oil is getting too hot, such as during towing, the bypass valve setup directs oil from the heat exchanger and into the transmission cooler in the front-end cooling module."

In reality the Transmission Heat Exchanger receives warm (hot) coolant to increase transmission fluid temperature as quickly as possible.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 067939 miles.

 

[weldguy]

Someone's overthinking this.

 

[David James]

Re examination of the engine cooling system of the 5.7 Hemi

I’m in the process of replacing the stock radiator.

I’m examining the coolant flow and thermostat location on top of the water pump.

Radiator thermostats are not the most technologically advanced devices and routinely overlooked in maintenance schedules.

The first point I want this discussion to open with is the location of the thermostat on top of the water pump,
why is this considered a optimum location is it just for convenience because they are both generally changed in the same interval where as I believe changing or at least inspection of the thermostat should happen sooner perhaps a 2 to 1 ratio or better.

The other discussion within this thread and the different ideologies of engineering and physics is whether top down coolant flow is better than bottom up flow I’ll refrain from bringing up the point of Left VS Right flow of radiator cores

Many members and in general most vehicle owners prefer to use a lower temperature rated coolant temperature thermostat for example I believe 180 F (82 C) is the most popular.

(I’m waiting on parts as of this date and have lots of questions going into my parts cannon)

What is your personal philosophy regarding this subject?

Engine Cooling System Efficiency 5.7 Hemi

While your buying time for your sock why can’t you offer answers for the questions I asked black betty ? https://www.newscientist.com/article/2127107-sock-puppet-accounts-unmasked-by-the-way-they-write-and-post/ Why don’t you criticize black betty ? Because that’s not the purpose of sock...

www.ramforum.com

It’s just me, but why would you mess with the OEM specs? Yes, you may be able to find a good aftermarket radiator, but I suggest you’d best know what you’re buying. As for thermostat, let it be.

 

[bushyrem]

Many of the emission sensors are calibrated to work with the OEM temp thermostat. If a lower temp stat is installed then it throws them out of wack.

 

[blackbetty14]

Couple of things bc I'm not going to read all 7 pages of this thread.

1.) Tstat is better than restrictor and keep it in the OEM range for fuel efficiency unless you have a reason to lower it (boost).
2.) Lower hose is always suction (hot water enters top and cools and flows to the bottom)
3.) I prefer Tstat location on the inlet not the outlet (inlet is LS motor platform and Outlet is SBC)
4.) You do not want to slow coolant down to absorb heat this is old wives tale. The temp outlet at the top of the rad from the motor is your high temp and the lower rad is your low temp... the motor is your delta Temp. Your motor can not run hotter or cooler than the top and lower areas of the rads, the faster you flow the coolant through the more efficient the system can be and the reduction between the high/low of the system and a more consistent delta T.
5.) replace Tstat when needed or if you change temp. They also make ones that FAIL in the open position.
6.) bleeder is not fully neccessary in most stock OEM V8 systems as they either have the rad cap as the highest point on the rad or they put in a remote fill which is the highest point. Some cars are annoying to bleed but Ive never had an issue with front end up, heat and fill then cool and repeat.

What I would like to see is for people without the mech fans to put together a true PWM electric fan combo for these trucks.

 

[Mister Luck]

One of the original ideas for mounting the thermostat at the water pump was to speed up cabin heat. From the DT service manual:


"The cooling system is pressurized and uses a centrifugal water pump to circulate coolant throughout the system. A separate and remotely mounted, coolant recovery bottle is used. When the engine is cold the thermostat is closed and the cooling system has no flow through the radiator or the transmission oil heater. The coolant flows through the engine, engine oil cooler, water pump, EGR Cooler, transmission oil heater, and passenger compartment heater core while the thermostat is closed. When the engine is warm the thermostat is full open and coolant will then flow through the radiator."

Yes, there's a contradiction in the above descriptive statement. The system description in the transmission section corrects it:

"This vehicle features an active transmission warm-up system with an oil-coolant heat exchanger on the transmission. The hoses are connected to the engine cooling system. The engine cooling circuit has both a three-way valve for coolant and a bypass valve in the transmission oil cooling circuit so the transmission oil can be warmed up more quickly from a cold start, which reduces parasitic loss from the drag of the spinning gears. If the transmission oil is getting too hot, such as during towing, the bypass valve setup directs oil from the heat exchanger and into the transmission cooler in the front-end cooling module."

In reality the Transmission Heat Exchanger receives warm (hot) coolant to increase transmission fluid temperature as quickly as possible.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 067939 miles.

2016 doesn’t have this ..

 

[Dusty]

2016 doesn’t have this ..

Well, my 2014 had the heat exchanger: https://www.moparpartscorp.com/v-2014-ram-1500--big-horn--5-7l-v8-gas/cooling--transmission-heater

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 067939 miles.

 

[Mister Luck]

Couple of things bc I'm not going to read all 7 pages of this thread.

1.) Tstat is better than restrictor and keep it in the OEM range for fuel efficiency unless you have a reason to lower it (boost).
2.) Lower hose is always suction (hot water enters top and cools and flows to the bottom)
3.) I prefer Tstat location on the inlet not the outlet (inlet is LS motor platform and Outlet is SBC)
4.) You do not want to slow coolant down to absorb heat this is old wives tale. The temp outlet at the top of the rad from the motor is your high temp and the lower rad is your low temp... the motor is your delta Temp. Your motor can not run hotter or cooler than the top and lower areas of the rads, the faster you flow the coolant through the more efficient the system can be and the reduction between the high/low of the system and a more consistent delta T.
5.) replace Tstat when needed or if you change temp. They also make ones that FAIL in the open position.
6.) bleeder is not fully neccessary in most stock OEM V8 systems as they either have the rad cap as the highest point on the rad or they put in a remote fill which is the highest point. Some cars are annoying to bleed but Ive never had an issue with front end up, heat and fill then cool and repeat.

What I would like to see is for people without the mech fans to put together a true PWM electric fan combo for these trucks.

The reason I want to respond to this is for everyone else that reads the whole thread because of forum etiquette

I understand and agree with some of this but somehow the black betty 14 forgot or never understood engine dynamics of how a cooling system works, a cooling system is not going to remain the same temperature under different conditions according to the stress for example of towing or acceleration.

After a vehicle reaches 40 mph (63 km) a radiator fan is not providing the cooling air flow and the radiators ability to cycle coolant is sometimes interrupted by excessive pump pressure and temperature surge can be created by the mechanical spring and wax ball inside a higher temperature rated thermostat to restrict the coolant flow and cause in some cases shortened service life and or component damage.
There is nothing wrong with the OE cooling system under normal operating conditions as designed for emission regulatory standards.
But who actually drives in those perfect conditions and environments 100% of the time ?

 

[Mister Luck]

Well, my 2014 had the heat exchanger: https://www.moparpartscorp.com/v-2014-ram-1500--big-horn--5-7l-v8-gas/cooling--transmission-heater

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 067939 miles.

That’s probably why you stated this ..
I was hoping you would reflect this information so I mentioned it because
after reading serval post regarding this previously through out the forums rarely is it mentioned that in 2016 this feature was excluded.

 

[Mister Luck]

Many of the emission sensors are calibrated to work with the OEM temp thermostat. If a lower temp stat is installed then it throws them out of wack.

Actually other sensors compensate until operating temperature is reached, in retrospect these differences can be recalibrated and less expensive that component repair or replacement.

 

[Mister Luck]

It’s just me, but why would you mess with the OEM specs? Yes, you may be able to find a good aftermarket radiator, but I suggest you’d best know what you’re buying. As for thermostat, let it be.

As with a majority of members whom with an uncontrollable sense of duty feel a need to criticize this thread it is probably best to refrain from posting an opinion before reading the whole thread.

 

[Mister Luck]

They moved the PCV valve from the engine oil fill tube to the rear of the engine on later versions of the 4.7. This was done to prevent the condensation of moisture in the crankcase forming water on the inside of the cool, oil fill tube.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 067939 miles.

It still will form if the engine is used for short trips it’s probably just less visible.

 

[blackbetty14]

The reason I want to respond to this is for everyone else that reads the whole thread because of forum etiquette

I understand and agree with some of this but somehow the black betty 14 forgot or never understood engine dynamics of how a cooling system works, a cooling system is not going to remain the same temperature under different conditions according to the stress for example of towing or acceleration.

After a vehicle reaches 40 mph (63 km) a radiator fan is not providing the cooling air flow and the radiators ability to cycle coolant is sometimes interrupted by excessive pump pressure and temperature surge can be created by the mechanical spring and wax ball inside a higher temperature rated thermostat to restrict the coolant flow and cause in some cases shortened service life and or component damage.
There is nothing wrong with the OE cooling system under normal operating conditions as designed for emission regulatory standards.
But who actually drives in those perfect conditions and environments 100% of the time ?

Oh, I fully understand how the complete cooling system works but I was basing my comments off the first page I read in this thread.

40mph fans become a restriction true if there is enough airflow through the radiator. There will be an operating range of the engine but it shouldn't fluctuate more than 10-20*F. But what you missed is the delta T of the system which is what I explained, output and input temps will change as the engine load increases/decreases and BTU output is affected. However the delta T of the system will hardly fluctuate as the efficency of the system doesn't really change, the motor will always fall between the high and low temps of the radiator as long as the equipment (flow) and airflow do not change. But this is also why we have a thermostat which will help regulate the minimum temp of the motor if you have low ambient temp (cool winter air and high airflow) you can cool a motor below the Tstat which you can manage by restricting coolant flow or airflow (active grill shutters). I think you believe that the tstat when closed will cause excessive pressure and wear? This is not true as the pump still circulates the coolant in the engine until it heats up the Tstat which opens and allows the full system to become active. You will not have EXCESSIVE pump flow with an OEM pump, you might have cavitation issues are higher RPMs though but now many of us sustain High RPMS with our trucks? I think the operating conditions of the OEM cooling systems are rather robust, cars/trucks are sold in a wide range of climates from the south to the north where we have huge fluctuations in ambient temperatures and operating conditions. I live in an area that will see -10 to 0*F in the winter and 100*F in the summer with high humidity and it doesn't get much more of a bigger range than that in the USA. OEM designs for the range of conditions as the vehicles are sold in different areas of the country and even outside of the country (think Canada etc).

If you also take into account the design of the RAM cooling system you will see a large (sqin surface area) single core aluminum radiator with lots of surface area and a large bumper opening for high airflow. The stock radiator is more than capable of cooling more than the 400hp our engines produce and the heat generated by a 5.7 (i'm not sure about the 6.4 rad size) but I would think has enough BTU capacity for the larger 6.4 no problem. I run smaller radiators on bigger motors with bigger BTU outputs and no issues.

I feel that your overthinking something that isn't an issue and is in fact rather overbuilt for the platform in stock form. OEM's invest BILLIONS into cooling system design and engineering as its critical to keep the engine/transmission alive through a wide range of operating conditions so they error on the side of safe to save themselves on potential future repair costs on large ticket items like engines/transmissions.

Aftermarket cooling system manufactures (BECOOL) provide cooling systems based on HP outputs... there 400hp kits have a standard fabbed aluminum rad (can't remember if its single or dual core but prob dual core) and a set of dual electric fans.... they offer the a 600hp kit for the same application and guess what the difference is?... just the fans! The rad goes unchanged and its just the fans that get an upgrade. I've seen people use 20yr old stock single core aluminum rads (plastic end tanks) in cars that make 800hp with a turbo (lots of engine bay heat) and the radiators have no issues cooling. Usually comes down to fans which OEM usually excels at in comparison to the aftermarket as far as quality/longevity and CFM output. Only aftermarket I consider worth looking at is SPAL and DERALE (usually uses SPAL fans).

 

[Dusty]

That’s probably why you stated this ..
I was hoping you would reflect this information so I mentioned it because
after reading serval post regarding this previously through out the forums rarely is it mentioned that in 2016 this feature was excluded.

I'm not sure why they would exclude this feature for one year, and then pick it up again the following year, especially since it's an integral part of their EPA qualification package. But I did check and the Mopar site lists the heat exchanger for 2016 as well: https://www.wholesalemopar.com/v-2016-ram-1500--big-horn--5-7l-v8-gas/cooling--transmission-heater

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 067978 miles.

 

[aeromax4]

areomax4

Maybe your system is different I thought 4.7 top hose went into the block?
Do you have a diagram or picture
I’m curious… I’ll see if I can find one
wild one should know

I found this you tube video that shows the location of the stat. It does show how to R/R the water pump

04 jeep 4.7 thermostat location - Search Videos

www.bing.com