Hemi Ping

[HEMIMANN]

Many of the utility companies around here have or are going to propane of CNG and dumping diesel.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 104799 miles.

They put CNG on a couple of garbage trucks, but not the entire fleet. Know why? Yes, taxpayer subsidies.

Plus they're professionally cared for. They don't let consumers mess with propane or CNG fueling for good reason. The average joe can barely navigate to the dinner table and back.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Many of the utility companies around here have or are going to propane of CNG and dumping diesel.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 104799 miles.

More propane or CNG?

CNG tanks were very expensive at one time.

 

[pscarbor]

So I've mentioned many times that my truck pings, and sometimes people respond with "well my truck doesn't ping". Listen closely to this video here. At 7:32 and 7:33 seconds you can faintly hear the ping which is like little marbles ratting around.

I don't know what octane he's running, didn't watch the whole video.

So yes, the hemi pings like crazy. Worst on 87, less on 89, even less on 91 but still present slightly.

Both heat and octane contribute. If my truck is cold, no ping. If it's hot, towing up a hill and running 87, it's going to sound like a squirrel symphony juggling their nuts in a glass bowl.

If you don't hear it, try a good pair of headphones!

I just bought a pulsar. Hoping the towing tune which @HEMIMANN said runs a little richer might help in this regard.

PUSHING IT TO THE LIMIT! 2019 Ram Pulsar Dyno Results

Parts discussed or installed: 2019 5th Gen Ram 1500 w/ 5.7L HemiPulsar Installation Video: https://youtu.be/AJNrd4lhHRc1. Edge Pulsar 32453: https://amzn.to...

youtu.be

Check your owners manual: Doesn't it specify 93 octane gas? Mine does. I have two Dodge 5.7 hemis; both are on 93 and neither pings.

 

[Wild one]

Check your owners manual: Doesn't it specify 93 octane gas? Mine does. I have two Dodge 5.7 hemis; both are on 93 and neither pings.

Post up this owner manual page specifying 93,take a picture and post it. I think you might want to get your eyes checked,as even the high compression 6.4's in the cars only call for 91

 

[ramffml]

Check your owners manual: Doesn't it specify 93 octane gas? Mine does. I have two Dodge 5.7 hemis; both are on 93 and neither pings.

87 "allowed", 89 recommended. I'm running 91 for the most part and always while towing.

 

[HEMIMANN]

My manual says to run only 100 octane Av Gas with tetraethyl lead when pulling a 30,000 lb trailer up Pike's Peak @ full throttle.

 

[ramffml]

Got my pulsar installed on my lunch break today. Equal parts disappointed and pleased. Not happy to see that the idle rpm is not adjustable like I thought it was which was half the reason I wanted to purchase this tuner. Either I was on the wrong page on their site the other day where it showed it was possible, or they had a bug in the page and recently updated their site but whatever the case is, the site no longer shows that capability either. I have a screenshot of their website showing the feature right before I bought it last week.

Anyway, the pulsar was never meant to be a long term thing, its just a quick and easy test for me to see how/if a tune can cure my ping issue. I knew the pulsar was in the mail when I filled up last 2 days ago so I put in 89 octane instead of the usual 91. Installed the pulsar and put it in towing mode. Wow. That sure woke something up. The pedal is more sensitive which is nice, but I feel it must be putting more power out in the 2000 to 3000 rpm range for sure. And best part, only had time for 2 pulls but haven't heard any ping yet on 89 in tow mode. That's not definitive since I don't always hear it anyway, but it definitely felt stronger to me. I've had a banks pedal monster before so I know how a sensitive pedal can trick us into thinking its more powerful than it is. This was different though, it felt stronger. Confirmation bias?

Time will tell, I will update the thread as I spend more time with it.

What I'm most curious about, is whether the economy tune will remove ping as I can see myself spending most of my time in that mode if it does. It was definitely fun in tow mode, like a "sport" tune in other trucks without having to use T/H and the downside with that (high shift points) but you know me, most of the time I drive like a sleepy grandma. I just don't want ping the odd time I get after it.

I'm also running a Tazer DT because I have after market morimotos that require me to disable my DRL's (not possible in Canadian trucks without a Tazer DT or similar device). After installing it, I no longer had the ability to power fold my mirrors. Only useful in crowded parking lots, but still, I missed it. Took the opportunity to update the firmware and messed around with a few settings and boom, got my power folding mirrors back. Been a great and productive lunch!

Now I just have to remember how to access all these features and hopefully the Tazer and Pulsar get along with eachother. Not going to lie, all this stuff makes me equally excited and nervous, you have no idea what bug crawls out of these things one day when you're least expecting it.

 

[JHoward]

I also purchased the Pulsar for my 2017 RAM 1500 HEMI expecting spectacular results with the eight pre canned tunes.

My experience was with the eight options that I could choose from wasn't any different from me choosing manually without the Pulsar, except for the feel with the "go fast peddle" giving the "feeling" If I kicked it in the ass, I was going to fly to the moon and back in less than ten minutes.

I uninstalled the Pulsar after about a month, for the reason I wasn't impressed with all the pre set tunes, that all they did was just to enable an setting at a push of the +/- gear selector ... sure, it was ok not to have to manually turn off mds, turn on tow/haul, select eight gear each time I hopped in my truck ... so, the Pulsar wasn't a good add on for me, IMHO.

If, and whenever I get my truck backfrom the auto collision center, (It's going on three months waiting on a new frame to arrive to start the repairs ... I don't know why the insurance company just didn't total it, but also glad it isn't because the KKB values my truck before damages are very low. Even in pristine condition with low miles. I can't trade/sale for anything because it's gonna show up on the CarFax report ... doesn't really matter anymore.), I'll go with something where I can have the Flyin' Ryan custom tune done with the idle bumped up.

 

[ramffml]

I also purchased the Pulsar for my 2017 RAM 1500 HEMI expecting spectacular results with the eight pre canned tunes.

My experience was with the eight options that I could choose from wasn't any different from me choosing manually without the Pulsar, except for the feel with the "go fast peddle" giving the "feeling" If I kicked it in the ass, I was going to fly to the moon and back in less than ten minutes.

I uninstalled the Pulsar after about a month, for the reason I wasn't impressed with all the pre set tunes, that all they did was just to enable an setting at a push of the +/- gear selector ... sure, it was ok not to have to manually turn off mds, turn on tow/haul, select eight gear each time I hopped in my truck ... so, the Pulsar wasn't a good add on for me, IMHO.

If, and whenever I get my truck backfrom the auto collision center, (It's going on three months waiting on a new frame to arrive to start the repairs ... I don't know why the insurance company just didn't total it, but also glad it isn't because the KKB values my truck before damages are very low. Even in pristine condition with low miles. I can't trade/sale for anything because it's gonna show up on the CarFax report ... doesn't really matter anymore.), I'll go with something where I can have the Flyin' Ryan custom tune done with the idle bumped up.

No doubt a real tune is best. But the Pulsar has been dynoed several times, the 30+ hp gains are real and like Hemimann said, the ability to toggle between various tunes is attractive as well though I'm not sure I'd keep the pulsar just for that.

 

[JHoward]

Even with the Pulsars claim of the additional 30 horse power increase and using 91 octane unethenol gas, I couldn't really tell the difference. My truck is darn fast with just it's factory set up.

However, I know your point is trying to eliminate an noise/ping and the Pulsar may help, but I'm betting it won't.

I've been known to be wrong before, lol.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yeah, Pulsar is real - it tows like mad.

It's just not a one-off perfected tune like Hemifever and those guys do.

I did not want a single tune for a single usage for my truck. I don't know why anyone would want stock tune (pass-through), but I do use economy MDS on a my baseline. I have not documented if or how much fuel it saves over stock.

And the tow pulls great. I tow my compact utility trailer with tractor or loose fill, and my travel trailer. Both come in around 7,000 lbs loaded. I tow in 4th gear max with MDS off.

 

[Wild one]

No doubt a real tune is best. But the Pulsar has been dynoed several times, the 30+ hp gains are real and like Hemimann said, the ability to toggle between various tunes is attractive as well though I'm not sure I'd keep the pulsar just for that.

Easy way to tell if it adds any power is hunt up somebody with a Dragy and test it.Dragy's aren't that expensive even in Canuckastan,and they can pay for themselves if you're playing around with a vehicle and want to see if your mods gain you any power.

https://www.amazon.ca/dragy-Based-Performance-Laptimer-DRG70/dp/B0BQ9QT51G?th=1

 

[ramffml]

So I emailed Edge and have a direct quote: "Fueling and timing are increased in all of the Pulsar tunes." Not sure what that means exactly, does it mean they run a richer fuel mixture? Less chance of pinging then right? But the increased timing then might work against that.

What I don't understand with this tuner, is if it's so easy to get 10 to 20 hp out of it, why doesn't Ram do it themselves. In other words if these tunes can increase power while reducing ping, what's the downside, just reduced mpg over stock? I can live with that.

They also said 91 is recommended for both the tow and performance tunes, the paper manual I got with it just says 91 for the performance tune not the tow tune. This is for the 5.7 tuner and maybe the 6.4 is different, but @HEMIMANN thought I'd mention it in case you weren't aware of the 91 requirement.

 

[Wild one]

So I emailed Edge and have a direct quote: "Fueling and timing are increased in all of the Pulsar tunes." Not sure what that means exactly, does it mean they run a richer fuel mixture? Less chance of pinging then right? But the increased timing then might work against that.

What I don't understand with this tuner, is if it's so easy to get 10 to 20 hp out of it, why doesn't Ram do it themselves. In other words if these tunes can increase power while reducing ping, what's the downside, just reduced mpg over stock? I can live with that.

They also said 91 is recommended for both the tow and performance tunes, the paper manual I got with it just says 91 for the performance tune not the tow tune. This is for the 5.7 tuner and maybe the 6.4 is different, but @HEMIMANN thought I'd mention it in case you weren't aware of the 91 requirement.

Depends on where they start to throw more fuel and timing into the mix.If they throw more timing at it above 4,000 it won't be as likely to ping,as it would if they did it at 1800 rpm.Remember horsepower is just a mathematical equation of Torque X RPM divided by 5252,dyno's don't actually measure horsepower,so they can be manipulated to show damn near any horsepower numbers the dyno operator wants it to show.A dyno is nothing more then a tuning tool,used to suck unsuspecting customers into thinking their cold air intake is good for 30 horsepower,lol.Way to many guys seem to get hung up on dyno horsepower numbers,that don't really mean squat.Buy yourself a dragy if you don't want to take the truck to a track,as they're fairly accurate,and will allow you to see if the actual horsepower claims are true,or just a fabricated number to suck you into thinking you've gained power.The butt dyno is notoriously inaccurate,as it's very suspectiable to the placebo effect,lol

 

[ramffml]

Depends on where they start to throw more fuel and timing into the mix.If they throw more timing at it above 4,000 it won't be as likely to ping,as it would if they did it at 1800 rpm.Remember horsepower is just a mathematical equation of Torque X RPM divided by 5252,dyno's don't actually measure horsepower,so they can be manipulated to show damn near any horsepower numbers the dyno operator wants it to show.A dyno is nothing more then a tuning tool,used to suck unsuspecting customers into thinking their cold air intake is good for 30 horsepower,lol.Way to many guys seem to get hung up on dyno horsepower numbers,that don't really mean squat.Buy yourself a dragy if you don't want to take the truck to a track,as they're fairly accurate,and will allow you to see if the actual horsepower claims are true,or just a fabricated number to suck you into thinking you've gained power.The butt dyno is notoriously inaccurate,as it's very suspectiable to the placebo effect,lol

True, dynos measure torque not HP, but since it's a math equation to get to HP you can't actually increase HP without an actual measured increase in torque first. As long as the gains are measured by independent (from Edge) dynos then I don't see a problem with accepting the gains they show.

I'm also not interested in peak HP gains to be honest, I'm very rarely hitting those values while driving, I'm more interested in gains under the curve. More power between 2000 and 3500 is ideal for me. I don't drag race or do stoplight wars, but towing would really benefit in that range.

But that's all a bonus as well, my first priority is seeing if a better tune can fix my ping issues.

 

[HEMIMANN]

So I emailed Edge and have a direct quote: "Fueling and timing are increased in all of the Pulsar tunes." Not sure what that means exactly, does it mean they run a richer fuel mixture? Less chance of pinging then right? But the increased timing then might work against that.

What I don't understand with this tuner, is if it's so easy to get 10 to 20 hp out of it, why doesn't Ram do it themselves. In other words if these tunes can increase power while reducing ping, what's the downside, just reduced mpg over stock? I can live with that.

They also said 91 is recommended for both the tow and performance tunes, the paper manual I got with it just says 91 for the performance tune not the tow tune. This is for the 5.7 tuner and maybe the 6.4 is different, but @HEMIMANN thought I'd mention it in case you weren't aware of the 91 requirement.

I don't understand what they're doing. In the instructions sent with my ECM, it clearly states 91 octane is necessary ONLY with the performance tune. Period. Did you ask why their email doesn't match their manual?

Did they upgrade the tow tune? Did they err in the original tune? Do they not know wtf they're talking about? IDK
I don't hear knocking on 89 when towing, nor do my passengers (who can hear better than me). That doesn't mean it's not detonating though - by the time you hear the knock, it's way too heavy. Which is why they use knock sensors today. These pick up the first signs of detonating and reduce ignition timing. But the way they program the reduction is problematic - by allowing repeated knocking until finally settling on a long term timing reduction. Not. Good.

Why doesn't Ram tune to the edge? Fuel economy. IDK what EPA requirements are, I'd thought their were none for heavy duty trucks, but clearly they install features to reduce fuel consumption, so maybe heavy duty vehicles count against the total models CAFE mileage? And this is why I bought the edge - to have a tune the way an old time engine would be from the get-go, and the EPA economy tune for dead-heading around town. I did not benchmark the difference in MPG between tow and economy tunes when deadheading. Maybe I should?

 

[ramffml]

I don't understand what they're doing. In the instructions sent with my ECM, it clearly states 91 octane is necessary ONLY with the performance tune. Period. Did you ask why their email doesn't match their manual?

Did they upgrade the tow tune? Did they err in the original tune? Do they not know wtf they're talking about? IDK
I don't hear knocking on 89 when towing, nor do my passengers (who can hear better than me). That doesn't mean it's not detonating though - by the time you hear the knock, it's way too heavy. Which is why they use knock sensors today. These pick up the first signs of detonating and reduce ignition timing. But the way they program the reduction is problematic - by allowing repeated knocking until finally settling on a long term timing reduction. Not. Good.

Why doesn't Ram tune to the edge? Fuel economy. IDK what EPA requirements are, I'd thought their were none for heavy duty trucks, but clearly they install features to reduce fuel consumption, so maybe heavy duty vehicles count against the total models CAFE mileage? And this is why I bought the edge - to have a tune the way an old time engine would be from the get-go, and the EPA economy tune for dead-heading around town. I did not benchmark the difference in MPG between tow and economy tunes when deadheading. Maybe I should?

I emailed them about the tow octane contradiction, got a reply back in 20 mins (these guys are on the ball that way at least, very good tech support). The "97" was their typo not mine.

Not a problem, you can technically run 87/97. However, out of personal experience if there is already slight pinging at stock it might be best to run 91 on the tow tune since the Pulsar will be increasing timing. Running 91 can help avoid pre-detonation.

You are welcome to try 87/89 on a ¼ tank while running the tow tune to see if the truck likes it, if not I would recommend running 91.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Thanks for doing this.

My read (ignoring the 97 typo): official recommendation for Tow tune remains 89 octane. This one employee has a personal opinion from his personal vehicle that 89 is insufficient. He also seems not to delineate between 87 and 89 octane. This is making me even more suspicious that 89 blended 87/91 doesn't combust right.

All this said, it isn't helpful their documentation doesn't match their individual advice. Further, RAM ECM ignition timing is set for "89 octane" gas. If there is some pinging with 89, it is likely due to the 87 octane gas portion.

My personal truck (6.4 Hemi) doesn't audibly ping on 87, but it runs crappy. Idle sputtering, not as much get up and go, etc. Probable lower fuel economy. On 89, it runs smooth. I don't hear pinging on either. I didn't hear pinging on 89 when towing.

Still uncertain whether to run 89 or 91. Esp. @ 9-10 mpg when towing.

 

[ramffml]

Thanks for doing this.

My read (ignoring the 97 typo): official recommendation for Tow tune remains 89 octane. This one employee has a personal opinion from his personal vehicle that 89 is insufficient. He also seems not to delineate between 87 and 89 octane. This is making me even more suspicious that 89 blended 87/91 doesn't combust right.

All this said, it isn't helpful their documentation doesn't match their individual advice. Further, RAM ECM ignition timing is set for "89 octane" gas. If there is some pinging with 89, it is likely due to the 87 octane gas portion.

My personal truck (6.4 Hemi) doesn't audibly ping on 87, but it runs crappy. Idle sputtering, not as much get up and go, etc. Probable lower fuel economy. On 89, it runs smooth. I don't hear pinging on either. I didn't hear pinging on 89 when towing.

Still uncertain whether to run 89 or 91. Esp. @ 9-10 mpg when towing.

I took it to mean my personal experience, I emailed them asking about timing/fuel mixture and pinging in my truck and they responded back (paraphrasing) "well if you already experience ping on 89 with stock tune then you're probably better off running 91 on the tow tune".

I'm going to try running 89, towing and empty. I'll keep this thread updated if/when my truck pings on their tunes with various octanes. Running 89 right now though it had a quarter of 91 left when I filled up.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Thanks. If we only had @Hemi395 's datalogger we'd actually KNOW when the thing was detonating.

This is ridiculous having to diagnosis what should be made available to customers by manufacturers. Life sucks a lot these days. Hence all these Forums.