In crease 5th wheel towing capability

[Welderguy]

I have my first Ram truck and I love it, Its a 2012, Ram Laramie, crew cab, short bed 4X4 with a 5.7 Hemi. It now has become my daily driver as well as my camper puller. Presently I have an 8500# tow behind camper, which it halls very well . However, my wife and I are talking abut trading campers for a 5th wheel to do some traveling with. The book says that my towing cap. is 10500 and i can put 2200 in the bed.
WE are looking at what they say are 1/2 ton towable campers. My question is what can I do yo my truck so that it will handle this new towing situation better. I am installing air bags next week as well.

 

[Ohio5pt7]

Air bags are your best bet. Also just a fyi a lot of your 1/2ton 5th wheels are heavier than non marketed smaller 5th wheels. I've been looking myself is how I know.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk all grammar errors brought you by fat fingers and auto correct.

 

[MADDOG]

You aren't exactly interpreting those numbers correctly. There is some what I call "Trailer Math" to do to insure you are towing safely and not exceeding your truck's towing capacity.

You need to know your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) which is your empty truck plus payload plus fuel plus passengers plus gear plus pin weight of your 5th wheel/tongue weight of a TT. That is your truck's fully loaded weight.

You also need to know your Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR)

Adding airbags helps with any sag you might experience, however, they do NOT add any towed weight capacity.

You need to know the pin weight of the 5th wheel you are looking at. Usually that is 18 - 20 percent of the trailer's gross vehicle weight rating. Add that number to your truck's loaded weight. Then see if it exceeds your GVWR.

Here is the trailer weight and payload specs for the 2012 Ram 1500. Look for your truck's specs based on the cab style, 4x4 or 4x2 and bed length.

https://www.ramtruck.ca/en_dir/pdf/Ram_Max_Towing_and_Payload_Selector_Sheet.pdf

There are also some great online calculators that can do the math for you. You just need to know the truck GVWR, truck GCVWR & the trailer GVWR.

Good luck.

 

[smurfs_of_war]

Airbags, coils, or helpers, whatever you add, just make sure you aren't exceeding the rear axle weight rating and tire weight limits. If memory serves, these are a bit heavy on the ass end, so make sure you have some room on the rear axle (and tires) for the pin weight. Those are two ratings I won't mess with because failure of either of those at speed can be at best- really expensive, at worst- deadly. While failure isn't guaranteed, it's not something I would want to knowingly aggravate.

That disclaimer aside, the bags work great but I personally preferred the coils being replaced with a beefier set. No maintenance and 'always on' so to speak. Airlines seemed to be my nemesis so I went with the tufftruck coils on my 1500.

If all looks well, happy towing

 

[Firetruck41]

I have my first Ram truck and I love it, Its a 2012, Ram Laramie, crew cab, short bed 4X4 with a 5.7 Hemi. It now has become my daily driver as well as my camper puller. Presently I have an 8500# tow behind camper, which it halls very well . However, my wife and I are talking abut trading campers for a 5th wheel to do some traveling with. The book says that my towing cap. is 10500 and i can put 2200 in the bed.
WE are looking at what they say are 1/2 ton towable campers. My question is what can I do yo my truck so that it will handle this new towing situation better. I am installing air bags next week as well.

Where are you getting the "I can put 2200 in the bed"? That would be very surprising. I would guess it is more like 1300-1500lb.

There are very few 5th wheel that are truly 1/2 ton towable. If the 5th wheel you are looking at is the same weight as your current trailer, you are looking at 1700+ lb pin weight. Add you and a passenger and you are at 2k lbs or more. Add the weight of the 5th wheel hitch and a bag of groceries and you are probably over 2200lbs. But as I mentioned, I would be extremely surprised if you had 2200lb payload available.

EDIT: Looks like your payload is 1458lbs (or less), per the link MADDOG provided above.

 

[tron67j]

And towing a fifth wheel with a short bed is a potential recipe for a disaster. I can't tell you how many trucks I've seen with rear windows popped out and taped over when somebody forgets to move their adjustable fifth wheel hitch when they're turning tight.

 

[pacofortacos]

I was thinking he has a 2500 ????

No way any 1500 has a #2200 payload with a crewcab Laramie.

Maybe he meant #1200 - which is what I bet is still more than what is on his door sticker.

 

[dhay13]

No way a 1/2 ton has 2200lb payload but 2200 would be pretty low for a 2500 with a 5.7. My payload is 2973 and mine is pretty heavy with options. My 2013 1500 Express had about 1300lbs payload and it was pretty stripped down.

But no matter what you do it will not change your legal tow ratings, just make it feel better doing it.

 

[mtofell]

but 2200 would be pretty low for a 2500 with a 5.7

2013 gas 5.7 Hemi had 9000# GVWR which results in really low payload. When I bought my 6.4 Hemi 2500 in 2014 I remember checking out the door sticker to be sure I had the 10K GVWR. Not sure why the GVWR held down on the 5.7 - maybe trying to sell more 6.4 Hemis?

 

[dhay13]

2013 gas 5.7 Hemi had 9000# GVWR which results in really low payload. When I bought my 6.4 Hemi 2500 in 2014 I remember checking out the door sticker to be sure I had the 10K GVWR. Not sure why the GVWR held down on the 5.7 - maybe trying to sell more 6.4 Hemis?

That's possible. Wasn't aware of that. Maybe they had a little softer suspension then?

 

[mtofell]

That's possible. Wasn't aware of that. Maybe they had a little softer suspension then?

Yeah, that's a great question. When I bought in 2014 the rear coils on the 6.4 Hemi were huge news. I'm pretty sure the 5.7 still had the leaf springs. I'm firmly in the camp that GVWR is kind of a useless # and that front and rear axle weights are what really matter. FAWR/RAWR should be on your door sticker and give you the ratings for each axle. Whether to abide by those independent axle ratings or your GVWR (which your payload is derived from) is an argument that fills these internet message boards.

 

[BossHogg]

And towing a fifth wheel with a short bed is a potential recipe for a disaster. I can't tell you how many trucks I've seen with rear windows popped out and taped over when somebody forgets to move their adjustable fifth wheel hitch when they're turning tight.

Simple solution, auto slider.

OP, forget 1/2 ton towable fivers. You want a fiver, figure on getting a 1-ton pickup to manage the payload the fifth wheel puts on the tow vehicle. When you start walking into the world of overloading a pickup, you create bilateral instability among other loading issues. Think about this, coming off a freeway on to a 360-degree exit ramp and the fiver is pushing your rear to the outside of the turn and you can not correct it. Just one example.

 

[BossHogg]

I'm firmly in the camp that GVWR is kind of a useless # and that front and rear axle weights are what really matter. FAWR/RAWR should be on your door sticker and give you the ratings for each axle. Whether to abide by those independent axle ratings or your GVWR (which your payload is derived from) is an argument that fills these internet message boards.

The GVWR plays into the vehicle's abilities of towing capacity and payload. For the past several years manufactures have been following the SAE J2807 specification which, is all-inclusive of the vehicle's abilities.

Fast Lane Truck spent a day with RAM engineers going through some of the J2807 specs on their test track. Interesting watch that gives a good idea of how inclusive the tow rating specification is. Looking at this will give most confidence in their vehicle when towing within spec and also give inside to what may fail when going outside the ratings.

 

[2003F350]

And towing a fifth wheel with a short bed is a potential recipe for a disaster. I can't tell you how many trucks I've seen with rear windows popped out and taped over when somebody forgets to move their adjustable fifth wheel hitch when they're turning tight.

Simple solution, auto slider.

OP, forget 1/2 ton towable fivers. You want a fiver, figure on getting a 1-ton pickup to manage the payload the fifth wheel puts on the tow vehicle. When you start walking into the world of overloading a pickup, you create bilateral instability among other loading issues. Think about this, coming off a freeway on to a 360-degree exit ramp and the fiver is pushing your rear to the outside of the turn and you can not correct it. Just one example.

It really depends on the truck and the camper. With today's 'turn tight' technology in most fifth wheels, and a 6.5' box, often you don't need a slider unless you are routinely going to turn 90* to the trailer (which isn't good for the trailer tires anyway).

On both my '99 and '03 SuperDuty Fords, I had a 6.5' box, towed the same fifth wheel with both of them (before 'turn-tight') and because I'm Like That, tried to go 90* with both of them - sure I was close to the rear window but never hit it, and made it to 90*. With a newer trailer I'd have likely been even further away.

I found it once but I'm having trouble finding it again - but B&W has somewhere on their site a set of measurements you can take to see if you'll hit the camper on the truck without a slider.

 

[tron67j]

A lot of good information here, I have seen the auto-sliding hitches and are a great idea. The only thing I offer about potentially not getting one is that eventually we all get in that situation where it is a tight road in front of the site or someone parks in a non-spot at a gas station and we end up having to do a lot of contortion moves to get back on the road. Separately, my parents love fifty wheel campers and say they tow so much better than tow-behinds. I find either is pretty much fine for me. But wouldn't do it with anything less than a 2500 and agree moving to a 3500 makes sense. Just my opinion.

 

[BossHogg]

It really depends on the truck and the camper. With today's 'turn tight' technology in most fifth wheels, and a 6.5' box, often you don't need a slider unless you are routinely going to turn 90* to the trailer (which isn't good for the trailer tires anyway).

Not sure what "turn tight technology" you are talking about. I'm only aware of the fiver's cap design allowing tighter turns, maybe.

In my case, if I placed the pin weight behind the rear axle I could safely make 90 degree turns, the problem was chucking so I moved the pin over the axle. Anyone that has done any amount of camping knows the challenges in campground maneuvering and you can get into a tight turn in a heartbeat. The first time, the cap hit the cab high left, $1,800 repair, much more than a Pull Right auto slider. Did I learn my lesson, NO. But the second time I collided, a Pull Right was on order. I did the clearance math and it looked like it would clear the cab but nope.

As far as the tires and high degree turns, that one of the reasons you run STs and not LTs on trailers.

Take a look, looks like ample clearance but nope.

 

[2003F350]

Not sure what "turn tight technology" you are talking about. I'm only aware of the fiver's cap design allowing tighter turns, maybe.

In my case, if I placed the pin weight behind the rear axle I could safely make 90 degree turns, the problem was chucking so I moved the pin over the axle. Anyone that has done any amount of camping knows the challenges in campground maneuvering and you can get into a tight turn in a heartbeat. The first time, the cap hit the cab high left, $1,800 repair, much more than a Pull Right auto slider. Did I learn my lesson, NO. But the second time I collided, a Pull Right was on order. I did the clearance math and it looked like it would clear the cab but nope.

As far as the tires and high degree turns, that one of the reasons you run STs and not LTs on trailers.

Take a look, looks like ample clearance but nope.

View attachment 215836

I have been camping and a part of the camping industry for my entire life, and pulling campers for 20 years. I have owned exactly zero sliders.

Yes, that cap design is EXACTLY what they call 'tight turn' technology. and for most Ford and Ram trucks with a 6.5' bed, you will not need a slider. The only exception I've seen is GM trucks, their cab/box design for whatever reason (I have not looked into it as I haven't owned a GM truck in 18 years) does not allow you to get to 90* without a slider if you position the pin over the axle as it is supposed to be.

I have been in tight situations in many campgrounds. I have needed to go 90* exactly zero times, even when I had my 42' toyhauler.

BTW, nice rig. Is that the rear den model? Looked at that one a few years ago before I went to the PW...decided we didn't want to go up and down steps to get to the living room every time.

 

[HDGoose]

Not sure what "turn tight technology" you are talking about. I'm only aware of the fiver's cap design allowing tighter turns, maybe.

In my case, if I placed the pin weight behind the rear axle I could safely make 90 degree turns, the problem was chucking so I moved the pin over the axle. Anyone that has done any amount of camping knows the challenges in campground maneuvering and you can get into a tight turn in a heartbeat. The first time, the cap hit the cab high left, $1,800 repair, much more than a Pull Right auto slider. Did I learn my lesson, NO. But the second time I collided, a Pull Right was on order. I did the clearance math and it looked like it would clear the cab but nope.

As far as the tires and high degree turns, that one of the reasons you run STs and not LTs on trailers.

Take a look, looks like ample clearance but nope.

View attachment 215836

My first 5ver experience was with my 2013 RAM 2500 with a 6'6" bed. I spent the money and purchased the Pullrite and the under bed mounts. I had lots of other concerns with a new trailer and never pulled a 5th wheel. The auto slider was one less thing to be concerned about. Perhaps an experienced driver would be able to avoid the need for the tighter turns, but I was being cautious. and everything was good!

No longer an issue with my 2020 RAM 3500 8' bed.

 

[BossHogg]

for most Ford and Ram trucks with a 6.5' bed, you will not need a slider.

Looks as if I'm the exception.

I have been in tight situations in many campgrounds. I have needed to go 90* exactly zero times, even when I had my 42' toyhauler.

You are likely much better at backing than I and probably have a spotter than knows what they are doing. I love my wife dearly but I'm better off having her go away when I'm maneuvering into a camping spot.

BTW, nice rig. Is that the rear den model?

Yes, my wife loved the floor plan. The floor plan allows for a significant increase in basement storage and three divided living areas which is perfect for the two of us. We head out often for months at a time. A little separation here-and-there is welcomed.[/QUOTE]