Little metal in oil - lifter failure

[edro2024]

2010 ram 1500, 5.7. 195k
Misfire cylinder 5. Pulled it apart, that lifter is toast. Not much metal in oil, but some.
Vvt solenoid screen damaged, but no visible metal.
Pulled mds solenoids, cleaned. On the magnets below those solenoids there is some fine metal pieces.
On oil pump pickup tube a small amount of metal also.
Cut filter open, no visible metal.
Plenty of sludge in oil pan, but not much visible metal.
Oil pressure was decent 20+ at idle before teardown.
My plan is to replace cam, lifters, valve job, hv oil pump, and new timing set. I actually prefer mds when it works. Working on a budget here. Pictures attached.
Open to advice. Can I get by without a rebuild? Or time to do it all. Not looking for max HP or mods, just reliability. TIA

 

[Burla]

Anything worth doing is...

It might work is best I got. If you are on a tight budget it might be something you sell soon? There is still a lot of value in old rams. If you want to be buried in it someday, then you might wanna go all in, but with all that metal it means sending it to a machine shop unless you can do that. I couldn't, but luckily for me I got a bud who does that knock wood. It doesn't take much metal to ruin your day. 200k not a bad engine for ya however it shakes out. With no metal in your filter that means you have been running good despite what is in there, real good sign for your plan.

 

[edro2024]

...worth doing right.

Thanks for your thoughts. Fortunately, I have a beater car to drive in the meantime..I might just have to slow down this project as money allows. At this point, parts for a rebuild are only a few hundred $ more. Machine shop probably a bit more. But I'm not looking at $6k for a crate motor.
I appreciate your "it might work" so I know there is some chance. I'll keep cleaning and prepping and avoiding debt.

 

[Dusty]

2010 ram 1500, 5.7. 195k
Misfire cylinder 5. Pulled it apart, that lifter is toast. Not much metal in oil, but some.
Vvt solenoid screen damaged, but no visible metal.
Pulled mds solenoids, cleaned. On the magnets below those solenoids there is some fine metal pieces.
On oil pump pickup tube a small amount of metal also.
Cut filter open, no visible metal.
Plenty of sludge in oil pan, but not much visible metal.
Oil pressure was decent 20+ at idle before teardown.
My plan is to replace cam, lifters, valve job, hv oil pump, and new timing set. I actually prefer mds when it works. Working on a budget here. Pictures attached.
Open to advice. Can I get by without a rebuild? Or time to do it all. Not looking for max HP or mods, just reliability. TIA

I see you have 195,000 miles on this engine. After looking at the camshaft photo and judging from your observations, what was your oil change and oil type strategy? What this often a short trip vehicle? I ask this question because you stated there's "plenty" of oil sludge in the pan which in my experience is unusual.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 127888 miles.

 

[edro2024]

Thanks for looking at it. The truck has had oil changes every 3-5k for life. Idk how much sludge is normal, but there was maybe 1/4" in the bottom of the oil pan. The heads and other parts weren't gummed up though. Pretty clean actually.
Most driving is 10+ mile trips, 25-30 miles daily.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

Anything worth doing is...

Nicely put, do yourself a favor don't purchase any Chineasism or dollar store aftermarket parts, purchase OEM parts from vendor on here, do it right do it once!!! Benny's the best!

Account | All Mopar Parts

parts.allmoparparts.com

 

[edro2024]

Nicely put, do yourself a favor don't purchase any Chineasism or dollar store aftermarket parts, purchase OEM parts from vendor on here, do it right do it once!!! Benny's the best!

Account | All Mopar Parts

parts.allmoparparts.com

Thanks. My machinist told me today "only buy at the dealership." But I don't want to overpay. I'll check these links.

 

[Forsakentalon]

My ram always had 30psi hot idle. Still lifter failure ate a cam.

I'd be very concerned about your main bearings already ruined from the metal. Don't dump money into something not guaranteed. And this seems like a huge gamble.

 

[Wild one]

2010 ram 1500, 5.7. 195k
Misfire cylinder 5. Pulled it apart, that lifter is toast. Not much metal in oil, but some.
Vvt solenoid screen damaged, but no visible metal.
Pulled mds solenoids, cleaned. On the magnets below those solenoids there is some fine metal pieces.
On oil pump pickup tube a small amount of metal also.
Cut filter open, no visible metal.
Plenty of sludge in oil pan, but not much visible metal.
Oil pressure was decent 20+ at idle before teardown.
My plan is to replace cam, lifters, valve job, hv oil pump, and new timing set. I actually prefer mds when it works. Working on a budget here. Pictures attached.
Open to advice. Can I get by without a rebuild? Or time to do it all. Not looking for max HP or mods, just reliability. TIA

Little tidbit for you,the high volumn pumps still don't put any more oil onto the cam lobes or lifter roller.There is "no" pressurized oil fed to them,they are strictly lubricated by the oil flung off the crankshaft,and you'd be farther ahead by using the stock oil pump and upping the idle rpm to 750.
You can look up from the bottom of the engine if the oil pans off and see the cam lobes,they're hung out in the open,with nothing feeding them pressurized oil

 

[Wild one]

Watch these couple of video's,and you'll see why a high volumn oil pump doesn't cure any of the cam issues.
Some of the hi-po shops have taken to machining a notch into the top side of the lifter and lifter bore to get more oil from the mds oil circuit onto the cam lobe.
Thens there's the Johnson lifters that actually have oil holes machined into them,to feed oil to the lifter axle

We look into the Hemi lifter failures and the dreaded Hemi tick

We unpack the lifter oiling issue that plague the late Hemi.Powellmachineinc.comIf you want to support us financially https://cash.app/$PowellMachine

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Our first video concerning Mopar's Gen 3 Hemi's notorious camshaft and lifter failure phenomenon caused a lot of discussion and controversy. It has nothing ...

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Gen 3 Hemi Camshaft Failure Mystery Explained!

Once we started digging into the Gen 3's mysterious cam and lifter issues we discovered a series of major design flaws within the construction of the block. ...

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[edro2024]

Thank you @Wild one . I appreciate your time and experience. I'm obviously not going to have a machine shop do the experimental work on a daily driver, so which of the Johnson lifters do you recommend for a non mds otherwise stock application? They have drop in, drop in short travel, drop in with axle oiling, and drop in short travel with axle oiling. TIA

 

[Ken226]

this is the best price i've found for OEM non-mds

MOPAR 05038784AD Heavy Duty Non MDS Lifter Set for 03-23 5.7/6.1/6.2/6.4L HEMI

MOPAR 05038784AD Heavy Duty Non MDS Lifter Set for 03-23 5.7/6.1/6.2/6.4L HEMI

highhorseperformance.com

If you decide to go with the Johnson lifters, let us know how they hold up over time. Lots of folks like them for performance applications, but i've yet to hear someone come back with a review after 100,000 miles.

 

[Wild one]

Thank you @Wild one . I appreciate your time and experience. I'm obviously not going to have a machine shop do the experimental work on a daily driver, so which of the Johnson lifters do you recommend for a non mds otherwise stock application? They have drop in, drop in short travel, drop in with axle oiling, and drop in short travel with axle oiling. TIA

You say you're on a budget,so just do OEM lifters,they don't make an mds Johnson lifter. If you go back with stock OEM cam and lifters,odds are they'll out live the truck,and you won't have to have it custom tuned.
You're over thinking this,your trucks going on 16 years old,by the time you wear out another OEM cam,the truck itself will be wore out

 

[edro2024]

@Wild one Just got off the phone with Johnson Lifters. They recommend #2356 axle oiling lifters + trays for me with a stock non mds setup. Very nice guy there.

 

[edro2024]

You say you're on a budget,so just do OEM lifters,they don't make an mds Johnson lifter. If you go back with stock OEM cam and lifters,odds are they'll out live the truck,and you won't have to have it custom tuned.
You're over thinking this,your trucks going on 16 years old,by the time you wear out another OEM cam,the truck itself will be wore out

Thank you for the reality check!

 

[Wild one]

@Wild one Just got off the phone with Johnson Lifters. They recommend #2356 axle oiling lifters + trays for me with a stock non mds setup. Very nice guy there.

If you go with a non mds cam,you're looking at tuning it.
You're starting to go down a rabbit hole,that can get expensive.
Be realistic,you're on a budget,and the trucks 16 years old,and if you start throwing power at it,your transmission becomes a weak link .
Get ahold of @Benny at @All Mopar Parts on here,and get him to put a package together with everything you need including gaskets / bolts etc. and call it good

 

[EdGs]

^^^^Solid advice^^^^

 

[dyeguy1212]

What did you end up doing?

 

[edro2024]

@dyeguy1212 . I replaced the cam with a non MDS Mopar cam, non MDS lifters, melling hv oil pump & pickup, timing set, vvt unit, dorman vvt solenoid, and my throttle body got contaminated during cleaning so I replaced it, valve job, new OEM springs and valve seals. Diablo intune 3 tuner. Running their 87 octane tune, idle at 750-800 rpm. Also used 797 thermostat delete, but I'm going to have to put a 180 thermostat in. I'm running around 165-70 degrees running and getting cel because of it.
Truck is running beautiful, quiet, no ticks, rattle or leaks. Warm oil pressure at idle is 38-40, running 60 mph and 1700 rpm 58psi.
I'm happy with the whole deal. Planning an oil change at 500 miles, will check well for metal. I did install a magnetic drain plug, and magnet in oil pan to collect anything random.

 

[Wild one]

@dyeguy1212 . I replaced the cam with a non MDS Mopar cam, non MDS lifters, melling hv oil pump & pickup, timing set, vvt unit, dorman vvt solenoid, and my throttle body got contaminated during cleaning so I replaced it, valve job, new OEM springs and valve seals. Diablo intune 3 tuner. Running their 87 octane tune, idle at 750-800 rpm. Also used 797 thermostat delete, but I'm going to have to put a 180 thermostat in. I'm running around 165-70 degrees running and getting cel because of it.
Truck is running beautiful, quiet, no ticks, rattle or leaks. Warm oil pressure at idle is 38-40, running 60 mph and 1700 rpm 58psi.
I'm happy with the whole deal. Planning an oil change at 500 miles, will check well for metal. I did install a magnetic drain plug, and magnet in oil pan to collect anything random.

Which size thermostat restrictor ,if not the smallest one,swap it in and see what happens. A custom tuner should be able to delete your thermostat code.If you had HP you could delete it yourself,but you can't do it yourself with a Diablo