Loud Lifters and/or Rods in Newly Rebuilt Engine

[irsmun]

So we rebuilt our engine recently. Whoever had this truck before us surely never or rarely changed the oil and drove it hard. When we opened it up it looked like Carlsbad caverns in there with all the sludge and build up.

So we broke it completely down sent the heads to a machine shop to have them cleaned and the valves tested. We cleaned the block ourselves in a large tub with diesel. Long story short, we reassembled. Our problem was two fold. One, the engine smoked badly and two, the lifters and/or rods were clinking. We figured out the smoking problem as it was just diesel residue burning off but we can not figure out the lifter problem.

Were we supposed to prime them first? and if so what can we do about it post rebuild. The engine runs great and has all new parts.

 

[Burla]

What can you do post build? Run a conventional oil w/o moly like Valvoline with a lot of zddp break in additive and hope for the best. After 500 miles or more, dump in a moly additive like lubeguards bioguard. The zinc will help you knock down and sharp edges, the moly will help plate your banging lifters, fixed my hemi tick. After you have 3500 miles, move to synthetic with heavy moly Motul or Redline. It is a crap shoot your deal sounds a little different, but is has actually helped many guys on the board.

Either that or tear it back down, I have heard this before here, guys changing lifters out thinking that would help hemi tick, only to still have hemi tick.

 

[irsmun]

Just to be clear this sound isn't just ticking lifters like is normally described. This sounds like every lifter and rod loudly. When you stand outside it sounds like a diesel engine. I tried to upload a video of it but the board won't allow it.

 

[chrisp2493]

You are supposed to prime the oil first. It takes a minute to get the oil through everything if you started it dry. Not real sure if you hurt anything yet or not

 

[Burla]

Download to youtube, should work. That is exactly what my hemi tick sounded like, a diesel engine.

 

[indept]

Is oil pressure good, about 50 psi at 1500 - 2000 rpm? Did you replace crank & cam bearings? Did you make sure the oil galleries were clean and no clogged going to the lifters?

 

[68PowerWagon]

Yeah could be a whole host of things. Did you check all bearing tolerances & torque specs?

 

[irsmun]

Oil pressure is good. Block was totally cleaned to open all galleries. They were clogged prior. We left the crank alone. The original problem was a worn lobe on the cam. That's what facilitated the repair. We replaced pistons, rings, lifters, oil pump, plugs, timing chain and tensioners, rear main seal, VVT, and cam shaft. We torqued everything to specs.

We feel like its the fact that we didn't prime the lifters. Can we pull the valve covers and go in and try to prime that way?

 

[Burla]

Well they are primed now anyhow, this wont help. Pull one you will see they are oiled. Maybe a different brand lifters? Get that video up.

 

[crackerjack1957]

Oil pressure is good. Block was totally cleaned to open all galleries. They were clogged prior. We left the crank alone. The original problem was a worn lobe on the cam. That's what facilitated the repair. We replaced pistons, rings, lifters, oil pump, plugs, timing chain and tensioners, rear main seal, VVT, and cam shaft. We torqued everything to specs.

We feel like its the fact that we didn't prime the lifters. Can we pull the valve covers and go in and try to prime that way?

Were the heads machined?
Head gaskets & push rods stock thickness/length?

 

[Rampant]

^^This^^ If you milled the heads and didn't take that into account with the pushrods and/or head gasket thickness, your compression ratio is higher (how much depends on how much material was removed) and you could be hearing detonation. Not good. I'd try some of the highest octane gas you can find and see if there is any notable change.

 

[Lee Peterson]

Did you check that all rockers are moving? Lots of guys have done cam swaps and put a few push rods in the wrong holes.

 

[crackerjack1957]

*****Adjustable valve train procedure only a reference on how intake & exhaust valve position for each cylinder should be for zero lash on the bottom procedure for non-adjustable valve train******


Setting Hydraulic Lifter Pre-load (Adjustable Valve Train)

When installing a hydraulic cam, lifters or rocker arms, establishing the correct lifter pre-load improves both performance and engine life. Insufficient pre-load will create excessive valve train noise and wear. Excessive pre-load will cause rough idling and low manifold vacuum, and can even lead to severe engine damage. With an adjustable valve train, proceed as follows:

Install the pushrods and rocker arms. Be sure the pushrods are seated correctly in the lifter and rocker arm. Turn the engine over in the direction of rotation until the EXHAUST pushrod just begins to move upward, opening the valve. Now adjust the INTAKE rocker of that cylinder. Carefully tighten the nut on the intake rocker while spinning the pushrod with your fingertips. You will feel a slight resistance in the pushrod when you have taken up all of the clearance. This is “zero lash.” Turn the adjusting nut to the specified pre-load – typically 1/4-3/4 of a turn, but this will vary based on the lifter number.

Turn the engine in its rotation direction until the intake pushrod comes all the way up and almost all the way back down. Now set the EXHAUST rocker to “zero lash” and add the specified pre-load. Repeat this process for all remaining cylinders.




Setting Hydraulic Lifter Pre-load (Non-Adjustable Valve Train)

COMP Cams® recommends using an adjustable pushrod to check the pre-load. Typically, only one cylinder needs to be checked in this process. After applying lube, install the adjustable pushrods and assemble the valve train. Using the same procedure mentioned earlier, adjust the intake and exhaust valves to zero lash by changing the length of the adjustable pushrod for precise fitment. Order a pushrod that is .020"-.070" longer than the pushrod length at zero lash to ensure the proper pre-load.

 

[irsmun]

I don't believe the heads were machined only polished. The heads and valves were in good shape. All parts replaced were stock.

 

[irsmun]

Did you check that all rockers are moving? Lots of guys have done cam swaps and put a few push rods in the wrong holes.

Our first attempt at cranking had that problem on one cylinder. It was corrected. As I mentioned, the engine seems to run well, its just super noisy. We did something wrong.

 

[chrisp2493]

*****Adjustable valve train procedure only a reference on how intake & exhaust valve position for each cylinder should be for zero lash on the bottom procedure for non-adjustable valve train******


Setting Hydraulic Lifter Pre-load (Adjustable Valve Train)

When installing a hydraulic cam, lifters or rocker arms, establishing the correct lifter pre-load improves both performance and engine life. Insufficient pre-load will create excessive valve train noise and wear. Excessive pre-load will cause rough idling and low manifold vacuum, and can even lead to severe engine damage. With an adjustable valve train, proceed as follows:

Install the pushrods and rocker arms. Be sure the pushrods are seated correctly in the lifter and rocker arm. Turn the engine over in the direction of rotation until the EXHAUST pushrod just begins to move upward, opening the valve. Now adjust the INTAKE rocker of that cylinder. Carefully tighten the nut on the intake rocker while spinning the pushrod with your fingertips. You will feel a slight resistance in the pushrod when you have taken up all of the clearance. This is “zero lash.” Turn the adjusting nut to the specified pre-load – typically 1/4-3/4 of a turn, but this will vary based on the lifter number.

Turn the engine in its rotation direction until the intake pushrod comes all the way up and almost all the way back down. Now set the EXHAUST rocker to “zero lash” and add the specified pre-load. Repeat this process for all remaining cylinders.




Setting Hydraulic Lifter Pre-load (Non-Adjustable Valve Train)

COMP Cams[emoji768] recommends using an adjustable pushrod to check the pre-load. Typically, only one cylinder needs to be checked in this process. After applying lube, install the adjustable pushrods and assemble the valve train. Using the same procedure mentioned earlier, adjust the intake and exhaust valves to zero lash by changing the length of the adjustable pushrod for precise fitment. Order a pushrod that is .020"-.070" longer than the pushrod length at zero lash to ensure the proper pre-load.

If he’s got the Hemi, they don’t have adjustable valve train.

 

[crackerjack1957]

If he’s got the Hemi, they don’t have adjustable valve train.

Go back and read again especially the header.

 

[Rampant]

Go back and read again especially the header.

That's not at all how it's done on a Hemi. @irsmun Do NOT follow the procedure given above. This is how to install them by the book:

INSTALLATION

Special Tools

CAUTION:
The longer pushrods are for the exhaust side, and the shorter pushrods are for intake side.

1. Install the pushrods in the same order as removed.
2. Install the Push Rod Retainer 9070 (1).

CAUTION:
Ensure the retainers (1) and rocker arms (3) are not overlapped when torquing bolts.

CAUTION:
Verify the push rods are installed into the rocker arms (3) and lifters correctly while installing the rocker shaft assembly. Recheck after the rocker shaft assembly has been torqued to specification.

1. Install the rocker shaft assemblies in the same order as removed.

CAUTION:
The rocker shaft assemblies are not interchangeable between intake and exhaust. The intake rocker arms are marked with the letter "I".

1. Verify the rocker arms are installed in the correct location. NOTE:

Repeat torque sequence several times to ensure rocker shaft assembly is firmly seated.

1. Using the sequence shown, tighten the rocker shaft bolts as follows:

- Snug to 10 N·m (7 ft. lbs.)

- Torque to 23 N·m (17 ft. lbs.)

- Individually loosen by 1/2 turn and re-torque to 23 N·m (17 ft. lbs.)

- Finally, Rotate 30 degrees

CAUTION:
Do not rotate or crank the engine during or immediately after rocker arm installation. Allow the hydraulic roller lifters adequate time to bleed down (about 5 minutes).

Remove the Push Rod Retainer 9070 (1).

1. Install the cylinder head cover See: Valve Cover\Service and Repair (Refer to 09 - Engine/Cylinder Head/COVER(S) , Cylinder Head - Installation).

 

[chrisp2493]

Yep the Hemi pushrods/rocker arms are a bolt on and forget. No measuring needed unless you are really going with a crazy head gasket thickness.


You can polish a ****, just don’t pretend you have anything more then a shiny ****.
I bleed Ram trucks

 

[crackerjack1957]

Well I guess I stand corrected......to be honest I never built a Hemi engine....have built many Chevy & Ford engines but that has been at least 20 years ago.....never went by service manual.....went by cam instructions from manufacturer.....you have to be able to check zero lash though & what I posted would be correct way to check from a performance point..... If you mill heads, sink valves from seat & valve grind & different head gasket thickness you are no longer stock...going to need different length push rod...also I really don't think op kept the push rods & rocker assemblies in order that they came off....And thanks for posting the correct way to assemble & torque rocker assembly

Curious how many miles on this engine before tear down .....wear on pushrods & rocker assembly