New electric Ram

[rule18]

@mcarey I hear ya. Going forward, if folks choose to leave the politics for the political forums (not this truck forum) this thread will march happily on.

 

[mikeru]

Honest question, did you feel that way throughout Trumps presidency while EV sales increased year over year as well, or is this a new thought for you? And I'm curious how you think US politics are also causing the year over year increase in EV ownership in countries outside the US as well. We don't even come close to the adoption rates of many other countries.

View attachment 484542

I would honestly like to answer this but the politics involved might get me in trouble here. And although you seem to be attempting to bait some of us, I agree that we shouldn't include politics in a truck forum. Suffice it to say we obviously disagree on this subject matter. Go team ICE!

 

[GTyankee]

ppl are still experimenting with gas & diesel engines
others are experiment with Turbine power

Now we have EVs & the big experiment there is getting distance

These adventurers have not yet given up

Incredibly Fast Steam Powered Car - Steam Culture

If you thought steam powered cars were only old and slow, THINK AGAIN! Today Brent talks about the incredibly fast Steam Powered car named Inspiration.This t...

www.youtube.com

 

[GTyankee]

Steam conversion Chevelle

1969 Steam Powered Chevelle - Built For General Motors

Here is a walk around with description of the one and only 1969 Chevelle powered by a steam engine. The car was built by Bill Besler for GM's Research Labora...

www.youtube.com

 

[mcarey]

I would honestly like to answer this but the politics involved might get me in trouble here. And although you seem to be attempting to bait some of us, I agree that we shouldn't include politics in a truck forum. Suffice it to say we obviously disagree on this subject matter. Go team ICE!

No bait attempts at all, lol. As much as you may be shocked, I'm not interested in playing the "gotcha" game. I'm genuinely curious, and you can PM me your answer if you feel as if it's too political to answer here - though a simple yes or no should honestly answer the question, and would require absolutely zero political discussion whatsoever.

I only asked because EV car sales have been growing at a rate that has been increasing every year since they've been available, which has been over a decade at this point. And only in the last year has this been somehow shifted to being politically driven. However as we both know that they have been in existence through various presidencies, and I never heard a peep about politics pushing EVs throughout the last presidents term, I'm slightly confused by this seemingly new thought pattern.

I mean, we can even escape the whole "political" nature of the question entirely. Did you feel the same way about EVs from 2017 to 2021, while their sales were increasing heavily YOY, as you do now?


edit: And I'd like to add that this discussion can still continue without politics very easily, from both sides of the ICE/EV table. Users just need to present facts supporting their opinions about the technology. Not emotions. That's all it takes.

 

[GTyankee]

Charges to 80 % capacity in 90 minutes

I would have to think that the truck is plugged in on both sides
Notice that the pumps are facing each other

To be fair, when semis fuel up with diesel
They also fuel up from both sides at many truck stops

 

[GTyankee]

mcarey,
that US Gov't program happened during the Obama Presidency
It was called The Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS)

most car lovers called it "Cash For Clunkers"

several groups thoughts on the program & its outcome

cash for clunkers obama - Google Search

 

[NJMOPAR]

A lot of unhappy people who took the Clunkers cash and found out they had to declare it as income the following year.
Same 'deal' the credit card debt 'reducers' offer to the gullible.

 

[mcarey]

mcarey,
that US Gov't program happened during the Obama Presidency
It was called The Car Allowance Rebate System (CARS)

most car lovers called it "Cash For Clunkers"

several groups thoughts on the program & its outcome

cash for clunkers obama - Google Search

Oh, but that's not what you described at all.

Firstly, it only accepted vehicles newer than 25 years old, so a 56 bel aire wouldn't even be eligible. Any money received for an eligible vehicle, had had to applied to a purchase or lease of a new vehicle. And, you had to sign up for it, so no one was having the government just show up and take their vehicle from their house. It also only lasted nearly two months, so the demand was evidently very strong. So strong in fact, that in those 2 months they tripled the expected budget of 1 billion to 3 billion, before shutting it down months earlier than its expected closure.

Granted, I did know next to nothing about this program, and learned everything above through the Google search link you provided.

Edit: removed my last paragraph as it was false, since I was assuming the poster above was correct, which they evidently are not.

CARS beneficiaries did not have to report the credit as income, typically. Some state and local variance exists, but that was few and far between all things considered. In short, using the program got you a voucher that deducted said amount from the tax you owed at purchase time of the vehicle. Nothing more, nothing less.

All that said, for none of the reasons mentioned thus far, the program does seem to have been largely a failure aside from getting people into newer, and likely safer more efficient vehicles.

 

[Fatbob Frank]

Yep, Fugly as a 4 wheeled Glock...

 

[GeometryFletch]

Electric trucks are like dolphin shorts. NEVER!

 

[KKBB]

Here is my take...I would buy a diesel engine, gas engine, or an electric truck. It all depends on if it would work for me and my family. If they can make a good looking electric truck, I could see myself driving one at some point in time. Just my opinion, but most all electric vehicles are ugly. I won't buy if I think it's ugly. I understand everyone has their opinion and are entitled to that opinion.

 

[mikeru]

No bait attempts at all, lol. As much as you may be shocked, I'm not interested in playing the "gotcha" game. I'm genuinely curious, and you can PM me your answer if you feel as if it's too political to answer here - though a simple yes or no should honestly answer the question, and would require absolutely zero political discussion whatsoever.

I only asked because EV car sales have been growing at a rate that has been increasing every year since they've been available, which has been over a decade at this point. And only in the last year has this been somehow shifted to being politically driven. However as we both know that they have been in existence through various presidencies, and I never heard a peep about politics pushing EVs throughout the last presidents term, I'm slightly confused by this seemingly new thought pattern.

I mean, we can even escape the whole "political" nature of the question entirely. Did you feel the same way about EVs from 2017 to 2021, while their sales were increasing heavily YOY, as you do now?


edit: And I'd like to add that this discussion can still continue without politics very easily, from both sides of the ICE/EV table. Users just need to present facts supporting their opinions about the technology. Not emotions. That's all it takes.

Of course EV sales are growing. There are lots of consumers interested in EV. For the reasons you and others have already mentioned. I have zero problems with something that's consumer driven. When there is a demand for something, companies respond because people are willing to spend money on driving that market. It's the base of our economy.

Cars and trucks are simply a means for getting around for many people. To get from point A to point B. For others, that's not the case, and I happen to fall in that category. In an ideal world, I might be able to get on-board with EV. IF we had infrastructure in place for charging, even in rural areas. IF we had batteries that could be charged as quickly as you can fill your vehicle with gas. IF we had a robust enough power system to support everyone charging their vehicles every night. And IF we had EV's with the same kinds of range and power we have with ICE. The fact is, these things are pipe dreams for now. Yes, some of these things are improving, but not at the rate that some groups want to force EV's on the public as a whole, with little regard about what it's going to take to support all those EV's.

As I've said before, I am not a fan of EV's. I like hearing the sounds of an engine revving, of the exhaust when shifting gears. I like the feel of acceleration you get from a gas powered engine. Hell, I even like the smells. I'm a car guy who grew up in the 1970's. I've worked on my own vehicles since my first car in 1978. I just have no interest in a car or truck that doesn't have any of those things.

I do feel I need to mention this. I don't think you meant that people need facts to support their opinions. I'm pretty sure you meant claims. Having facts are not a prerequisite to having an opinion. Lets say I have an opinion that clear blue skies look better than cloudy skies. Would I need facts to support that opinion? Where would one even obtain these facts? But if I were to say that it's warmer on days that that the skies are clear than when the skies are cloudy. I could then present facts to in an attempt to back this claim up.

 

[mcarey]

I do feel I need to mention this. I don't think you meant that people need facts to support their opinions. I'm pretty sure you meant claims. Having facts are not a prerequisite to having an opinion. Lets say I have an opinion that clear blue skies look better than cloudy skies. Would I need facts to support that opinion? Where would one even obtain these facts? But if I were to say that it's warmer on days that that the skies are clear than when the skies are cloudy. I could then present facts to in an attempt to back this claim up.

That's fair enough. Likely a poor word choice on my end. What I was getting at is that this discussion goes no where when people are just blindly (and often incorrectly) throwing out statements that amount to nothing more than how they feel about something and not how something actually is. Examples, the guys early in this thread claiming that fast chargers take hours to charge, or portraying the idea that we in the US are being forced to get rid of our ICE vehicles. Even the CARS posts could be used as examples here, since they were brought up in relation to the US losing it's ICE vehicles or whatever. These are all demonstrably false. And the latter two, I'd suggest, aren't actually being brought up to discuss EVs but in attempts to drive other narratives that may or may not be more popular on these forums.

I do agree, mostly, with your running list of IFs though. But I also think that sort of highlights the point that's been somewhat discussed here by a few of us. Those IFs are all valid, today. Similarly when ICE vehicles hit the market, those were all probably felt in the exact same manner. Imagine the complexity (and fear) of taking a vehicle that required fuel stations somewhere instead of a horse and carriage where you carried your feed and could let the horse sleep if needed. I'd suggest we are at that same point once again.

As of this very day, do EVs work for every use case for every person? Nope. Are there larger scale issues that need to be addressed should we hit the point of the entire population only using EVs? Yep. Are there problems that may exist between today, and that point? Absolutely. I have no problems siding with any of that. But writing off the tech as a whole because it's not as engrained into society as our current ICE infrastructure is, just doesn't make sense to me. Innovation has to start somewhere.

I said something similar earlier in this thread, and I think it's fitting here again. Imagine in the late 50s when people were talking about sending a manned rocket into space, and possibly putting a person on the moon. Imagine if they had this idea, and then said "ah, we can't do it today. Let's just give up on it." So instead of moving towards a manned rocket being successful a few years later, and then Armstrong landing on the moon a few years after that... they just gave up. Or, if the Wright Brothers were told "planes are dumb, we have trains, stop trying". Or, hell, the first ICE vehicle makers were told "don't waste your time making cars guys, horses work perfect. Imagine the horrors of having to get gas? We can't even get gas everywhere in the country so it's useless!"

That's the vibe I get from a majority of the anti-EV crowd, especially in the truck world. Instead of saying "wow, this has potential" it's met with "this is dumb because of the state of it today, and i love oil. Total waste of time."

 

[Evguy1]

Very well put Mcarey, tech and change have always scared close minded people.
Someone mentioned liking the power of their gas engine. I would like to see you race a Tesla or almost any of the production EV's. The first time I had a ride in a Tesla roadster about 10 years ago I almost blacked out from the G force and it was raining at the time. I had previously only ever felt that in one of my race cars exiting corners under full throttle. That's when I know EV's were a cool tech and would have a big future in my life.

 

[mikeru]

That's fair enough. Likely a poor word choice on my end. What I was getting at is that this discussion goes no where when people are just blindly (and often incorrectly) throwing out statements that amount to nothing more than how they feel about something and not how something actually is. Examples, the guys early in this thread claiming that fast chargers take hours to charge, or portraying the idea that we in the US are being forced to get rid of our ICE vehicles. Even the CARS posts could be used as examples here, since they were brought up in relation to the US losing it's ICE vehicles or whatever. These are all demonstrably false. And the latter two, I'd suggest, aren't actually being brought up to discuss EVs but in attempts to drive other narratives that may or may not be more popular on these forums.

I do agree, mostly, with your running list of IFs though. But I also think that sort of highlights the point that's been somewhat discussed here by a few of us. Those IFs are all valid, today. Similarly when ICE vehicles hit the market, those were all probably felt in the exact same manner. Imagine the complexity (and fear) of taking a vehicle that required fuel stations somewhere instead of a horse and carriage where you carried your feed and could let the horse sleep if needed. I'd suggest we are at that same point once again.

As of this very day, do EVs work for every use case for every person? Nope. Are there larger scale issues that need to be addressed should we hit the point of the entire population only using EVs? Yep. Are there problems that may exist between today, and that point? Absolutely. I have no problems siding with any of that. But writing off the tech as a whole because it's not as engrained into society as our current ICE infrastructure is, just doesn't make sense to me. Innovation has to start somewhere.

I said something similar earlier in this thread, and I think it's fitting here again. Imagine in the late 50s when people were talking about sending a manned rocket into space, and possibly putting a person on the moon. Imagine if they had this idea, and then said "ah, we can't do it today. Let's just give up on it." So instead of moving towards a manned rocket being successful a few years later, and then Armstrong landing on the moon a few years after that... they just gave up. Or, if the Wright Brothers were told "planes are dumb, we have trains, stop trying". Or, hell, the first ICE vehicle makers were told "don't waste your time making cars guys, horses work perfect. Imagine the horrors of having to get gas? We can't even get gas everywhere in the country so it's useless!"

That's the vibe I get from a majority of the anti-EV crowd, especially in the truck world. Instead of saying "wow, this has potential" it's met with "this is dumb because of the state of it today, and i love oil. Total waste of time."

I think most here would agree with much of that. I've never said that we should give up on EV's. New technology is awesome when driven by demand. And I think that's the sentiment of most of the people who've posted on this thread that they wouldn't buy an EV. There are always going to be those who say never for any new tech. Eventually most of them change their minds later down the road if it make sense for them to do so.

But we are talking about right now, not 5, 10, 20, or more years into the future. We have EV's available for purchase right now. And in my opinion, right now we don't have enough in place if even 1/4 of new vehicle sales were EV's. I seem to remember reading that something like 2% of the vehicles now on the road are full electric. I suspect that pretty accurate, but I don't have the time right now to verify that, so please don't take that as gospel. In places like the populated areas of California and Washington state (many other populated areas as well), there appears to be enough infrastructure in place to support the EV's that people are driving there. But where I live, EV's are rare. There are no charging stations within almost 20 miles of my house. No parking lots or businesses in town have them. So the only thing I can do for commuting is charge from home. What if the power goes out while I'm sleeping (which does happen occasionally), and my car wasn't powered up long enough to charge enough for my 25 minute commute? Suddenly I'm without a vehicle for the day. And my job is such that I can't work from home. So I miss a day of work if I can't find a ride from someone. That's just one example of why I am not ready for an EV.

 

[Evguy1]

So the only thing I can do for commuting is charge from home. What if the power goes out while I'm sleeping (which does happen occasionally), and my car wasn't powered up long enough to charge enough for my 25 minute commute? Suddenly I'm without a vehicle for the day. And my job is such that I can't work from home. So I miss a day of work if I can't find a ride from someone. That's just one example of why I am not ready for an EV.

You make a good point. I live in a rural area and often have power outages. Our EV is an older one (2019) and only gets about 150 miles range, newer ones get 200-500 miles range. If the power goes out for a couple of days in a row you should still get to work and back with no problems. We only EVER use the public charging station when were on a road trip as they are more expensive than charging at home. A LOT of the gas stations are now installing the fast chargers as demand increases. Charging stations are like the cars, as demand increases the stations will increase. You can now drive from coast to coast in Canada in an EV with no problem finding a charging station. One other benafit of EV's is that a lot of hotels resturants, malls etc and installing level 2 charging staions that customers can plug into for free. So you travel a few hundred miles on a holiday, arrive at the hotel and charge overnight for free. It cost the hotel very little and draws in customers.

 

[mikeru]

You make a good point. I live in a rural area and often have power outages. Our EV is an older one (2019) and only gets about 150 miles range, newer ones get 200-500 miles range. If the power goes out for a couple of days in a row you should still get to work and back with no problems. We only EVER use the public charging station when were on a road trip as they are more expensive than charging at home. A LOT of the gas stations are now installing the fast chargers as demand increases. Charging stations are like the cars, as demand increases the stations will increase. You can now drive from coast to coast in Canada in an EV with no problem finding a charging station. One other benafit of EV's is that a lot of hotels resturants, malls etc and installing level 2 charging staions that customers can plug into for free. So you travel a few hundred miles on a holiday, arrive at the hotel and charge overnight for free. It cost the hotel very little and draws in customers.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised that none of the gas stations in my area have installed charging equipment yet. My town is on a major state highway, so we get a lot of thru-traffic in the area. There are bound to be some EV's in there, at least occasionally. Until that happens, I wouldn't even consider all electric. But as I've said a couple times now, I am very open to a plug-in hybrid. Problem is, car makers are jumping straight into the EV market. And don't seem as interested (motivated?) in developing plug in hybrids anymore.

 

[farout75]

I hope the day will never come that I have to own any EV. EV's will sink our economy, as we do not have the electrical grid that is sufficient enough to provide the amount of electricity for even 50% of all people to own a EV.

They have not developed an affordable Big Rig to run on electric power. I think going electric for vehicles will cause more problems that our politicians could ever imagine. Bad for the USA

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

I've been seeing a lot of comments about how fast an EV is. Do we really need a bunch more people on the road with vehicles faster than what we already have. People who also have the desire to have a vehicle they can fall asleep in while "driving". Ride a plane, train or boat if you want to sleep while traveling. I've seen EV people who has called anybody that doesn't want one "old, close minded, dinosaur, behind the times......you name it. Even seen some say "It's coming whether you like it or not" and then wants to turn around and say "I don't understand anyone who says it's being forced on us". Why can't EV people be ok that there are ICE people that know what "they" want and EV people don't know what's best us. I know I'm ok with you wanting an EV but I find them boring to me. The tesla EV'S remind me of the Gecko on the Geico commercials when I meet one on the road, but if that's what you like it's fine with me. I simply could care less about who's circular saw motor is faster than who's washer motor. I hope that's ok. You are talking to most people who buys a ICE vehicle and don't even care for how quiet they are from the factory and we add a muffler of our choice, change CAI systems of our choice, add performance anything we can to our ICE vehicles and it makes us happy. Can you EV people be happy with your vehicle and quit telling the rest of us how bad of humans we are because we burn fuel? After "ALL" these back and forth comments does anyone on either side think they have changed just "one" persons opinion? I seriously doubt ONE has changed their mind and I for one will not try to change anyone's mind. Buy and drive what "YOU" like/want and stop with the guilt trips. I will continue being narrow/closed minded person if that's what "you" want to call me. I'll stay happy and you can stay angry and miserable because I won't listen to the hype. Best of luck to everyone's personal choices! I've said it before, every comment on here about the future in either direction is speculation about EV's because we as a nation has never been in an all EV situation before. It's all hopes and dreams which is ok.