Nitto ridge grappler with 35lb in the road force balance

[SPetri]

Hi,
I’ve posted here before but my initial post has been deleted (spam??)

My 2023 power wagon had tires replaced by low cost tires (advantage ATX-850) and I had vibration in the cabin at highway speed (I see the passenger seat back rest shaking)
The truck has 35k miles only, suspension seems to be ok.

I was convinced that vibration was caused by the tires and yesterday decided to upgrade to Nitto ridge grapplers (35x12.50xR17), had them road force balanced. I was monitoring entire process, these are my road force balance results:

FL wheel with 12lb
FR wheel with 19lb
RL wheel with 29lb
RR wheel with 35lb

Minimum weight added (< 2oz top)

Both right side wheels required tire to be sniped in the rim, specially the RR wheel adjusted in 4 positions but still final possible results is at the limit set in the machine (< 35lb)
The technician said it was caused by them rim (??)

Final Result: same f**** vibration after spending $1800 in the new tires.

Now, I’ll schedule a ram dealer suspension/shaft/axle inspection to make sure I eliminate other possible causes.

Any thoughts/experience to share? Can I just have a faulty tire(s) and would have fight discount tire replace them?

 

[Dean2]

The amount of weight used to balance your tires is way past acceptable. They are using more weight than the rim weighs and over 50% of what the tire weighs. Take the tires off the Rims. Spin the Rims alone on a balancer and see if they are out of round, bent, or were built badly. If the Rims are pooched get new ones.

If the rims are fine, the tires are obviously defective, and that is not as uncommon as most people think. When I had my last set of Duratracs mounted, the tire shop I use is excellent and very focused on the customer. They went through 9 tires to get 4 good ones. They rejected and returned the other 5 to Goodyear. Most tire shops would have just mounted the defective tires and tried to balance them out.

 

[18CrewDually]

I'd also check that you weren't sold recalled defective tires. See below.

 

[SPetri]

The amount of weight used to balance your tires is way past acceptable. They are using more weight than the rim weighs and over 50% of what the tire weighs. Take the tires off the Rims. Spin the Rims alone on a balancer and see if they are out of round, bent, or were built badly. If the Rims are pooched get new ones.

If the rims are fine, the tires are obviously defective, and that is not as uncommon as most people think. When I had my last set of Duratracs mounted, the tire shop I use is excellent and very focused on the customer. They went through 9 tires to get 4 good ones. They rejected and returned the other 5 to Goodyear. Most tire shops would have just mounted the defective tires and tried to balance them out.

I’m sorry, the weight added is in Oz not lb

 

[SPetri]

I hope the tire shop verifies the tires they have in stock for the recalls, but I’ll check myself.
Correction: I feel the vibration also in low speed just with different frequency.
Even the side mirrors vibrate

 

[Dean2]

I’m sorry, the weight added is in Oz not lb

Even in ounces, 35 ounces, which is nearly 3 Lbs, on a tire is WAY past normal. The right way to mount a tire is to spin the rim on the balancer first an see if it is round, balanced etc. You also mark the heavy side of the rim. Then, with a good rim and after moving the tire around the rim to get the best no weight added balance, you use weights to fine tune the finished mounting. If it takes more than 5 or 6 ounces per wheel it means the tire is not built right or they didn't take the time to no weight balance the tire and rim properly. If they did all the mounting right and still need to add 6 ounces, then that tire should be rejected.

 

[Curmudgeon]

^ I had this type of defect years ago with a set of new Michelins, the radial runout was pretty extreme, creating vibrations at all speeds ad no amount of balancing or weight would resolve it.

Radial vs Lateral Runout graphic...

 

[Docwagon1776]

I was monitoring entire process, these are my road force balance results:

FL wheel with 12lb
FR wheel with 19lb
RL wheel with 29lb
RR wheel with 35lb

JFC, there's no way a tech put 35 lbs on a tire to balance it. Did they just JB weld a dumbbell in place?

I’m sorry, the weight added is in Oz not lb

Ah, ok. But still, nearly 3 lbs? Something isn't right with the rims, tires, or both.

 

[SPetri]

JFC, there's no way a tech put 35 lbs on a tire to balance it. Did they just JB weld a dumbbell in place?


Ah, ok. But still, nearly 3 lbs? Something isn't right with the rims, tires, or both.

This is the results in the road force balance machine, represents the force variation applied to the wheel, not the weight added to balance it

 

[Docwagon1776]

This is the results in the road force balance machine, represents the force variation applied to the wheel, not the weight added to balance it

Disregard my shock and disbelief, then. I thought you were saying that's how much weight they used to balance it, my fault.

 

[SPetri]

I’m new to trucks and 4x4 vehicles, but today I decide to check the suspension looking for indication of the vibration cause in addition to the new tires and balance issues reported in this post.

I found a slop in the front shaft connection with the transfer case, which I believe should not exist.
Question - can front shaft slop cause vibration even if I’m in 2wd mode?
Will be the front shaft always engaged/spinning even in 2wd mode?

 

[DILLIGAF]

I throw in balance beeds when my tire start feeling ******. Solves my issue every time.

 

[Dean2]

I throw in balance beeds when my tire start feeling ******. Solves my issue every time.

I tried the balance fluid once. Really bad idea, makes fixing a puncture nearly impossible. I never tried "Balance Beads". What are they and how do they work if you don't mind saying.

 

[olyelr]

I tried the balance fluid once. Really bad idea, makes fixing a puncture nearly impossible. I never tried "Balance Beads". What are they and how do they work if you don't mind saying.

 

[Airmousam]

Interesting! Are balance beads a thing on trucks like a PW? I've used them with success on high-performance modified street bikes mainly to not see the weights on the wheels...thx

 

[Dean2]

Hi,
I’ve posted here before but my initial post has been deleted (spam??)

My 2023 power wagon had tires replaced by low cost tires (advantage ATX-850) and I had vibration in the cabin at highway speed (I see the passenger seat back rest shaking)
The truck has 35k miles only, suspension seems to be ok.

I was convinced that vibration was caused by the tires and yesterday decided to upgrade to Nitto ridge grapplers (35x12.50xR17), had them road force balanced. I was monitoring entire process, these are my road force balance results:

FL wheel with 12lb
FR wheel with 19lb
RL wheel with 29lb
RR wheel with 35lb

Minimum weight added (< 2oz top)

Both right side wheels required tire to be sniped in the rim, specially the RR wheel adjusted in 4 positions but still final possible results is at the limit set in the machine (< 35lb)
The technician said it was caused by them rim (??)

Final Result: same f**** vibration after spending $1800 in the new tires.

Now, I’ll schedule a ram dealer suspension/shaft/axle inspection to make sure I eliminate other possible causes.

Any thoughts/experience to share? Can I just have a faulty tire(s) and would have fight discount tire replace them?

So, @SPetri - any updates on getting your tires properly balanced?


@olyelr - thanks for the explanation. Looked them up, Fountain Tire near me installs them. I am going to give balance beads a try, looks like and excellent way to balance large tires on a 4x4.

 

[Hagar1]

I know it might be a stretch but check to see that the axle bolt pattern is concentric with the center of the axle. Years ago, I ran across an axle that was drilled off center. All the balancing and wheel replacement in the world couldn't fix it but a new axle did! At the time, the vehicle was still under warranty.

 

[SPetri]

So, @SPetri - any updates on getting your tires properly balanced?


@olyelr - thanks for the explanation. Looked them up, Fountain Tire near me installs them. I am going to give balance beads a try, looks like and excellent way to balance large tires on a 4x4.

I scheduled a suspension/drive train inspection in the local ram dealership and nothing wrong found except for the tires out of balance.
Went back to discount tires and had all road force balanced again, this time (for any reason) the results were better. All tires are below the limit.
After a test ride, I feel it improved a lot, no more vibration at low speeds and I only feels a little vibration around 70mph, if I go 3-4 miles below or above I have no vibration. I believe it’s more a frequency thing than a tire issue (if it makes sense)

This is my first truck, I’m now convinced that I cannot expect the same smooth ride I have in wife’s SUV in a HD off-road truck with big AT/hybrid tires (correct?)

 

[Dean2]

I scheduled a suspension/drive train inspection in the local ram dealership and nothing wrong found except for the tires out of balance.
Went back to discount tires and had all road force balanced again, this time (for any reason) the results were better. All tires are below the limit.
After a test ride, I feel it improved a lot, no more vibration at low speeds and I only feels a little vibration around 70mph, if I go 3-4 miles below or above I have no vibration. I believe it’s more a frequency thing than a tire issue (if it makes sense)

This is my first truck, I’m now convinced that I cannot expect the same smooth ride I have in wife’s SUV in a HD off-road truck with big AT/hybrid tires (correct?)

You are right, HD pickups generally aren't as smooth but I am going to try the balance beads. They sound like they should help a lot.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

I’m sorry, the weight added is in Oz not lb

Fair enough, but 35oz to balance a tire is wayyyy unacceptable!
This sounds as bad as the BFG KO2's when it comes to weight to balance requirements.

Heck, my 35" Michelin LTX M/S Load E was max, 2.5oz on one rime to balance the tire.
The least was 0.75oz on one.