Noob needs help 6.4L possible lifter and cam

[Wild one]

Damn it, I just took my son in laws friend out to my shop to look at that scratch and I realized I’m going to have to take the exhaust manifold off, either way to have it decked or to do it myself it’s going to have to come off. I was really trying to avoid that.

Good time to surface them to,lol. See you in week after you're done sanding everything flat,lol Just kidding Burt

 

[BurtShaver]

Update, I took that head with the scratch to a Performance shop locally, I won’t mention the full name just in case someday this thread is found with a google search using his name, he is a mechanic about 51 years old, super busy, not a high performance shop or machine shop but I know he’s rebuilt many engines and runs a very successful business, anyways, he said I had nothing to worry about with the scratch. Me being me, analyzing everything to death I took it to another local mechanic, this fellow is about 65 years old, runs a small auto repair shop that is nearing the end, him and his worker were just sitting in there enjoying their coffee, I had him look at it and he said he would have the heads resurfaced, he was poking at other spots saying hmmm, hmmmm. Something about heat making it worse, I should have really had my listening ears on. He recommended Crysler Automotive center

MACHINE SHOP

High Performance Engines and Racing Parts. Proud Member of the AERA! Engine Rebuilders Association Complete Brake Service - Machining car and truck drums and discs. Flywheel Service - Resurfacing.

cryslerautoparts.ca

I was talking with Darryn at Crysler machine shop and he said those heads should be resurfaced every time, something to do with the gaskets that are used now, again should have been listening better. The old gaskets I guess you could get away with more. Anyways Darryl quoted me 125.00 per head to deck or resurface, whatever it should be called. 150.00 per head with a leak down test or whatever he called it to test the valve’s, the seats I’m assuming? And 75.00 per manifold to deck them or if I have him do the resurface/test valves/and deck the manifolds 175.00 per head total. How does that pricing sound to you? Is he being fair, or does he know I’m a Noob and over pricing? So here’s what I’m thinking, I’m thinking learning is great, I’ve been trying to learn about engines for the past 3 years or so, rebuilding a couple snowmobile engines and such with SeaDoo’s as well but I’m thinking now is not the time to start experimenting with decking the heads myself on a vehicle I rely on for work and paid 34,000.00 for. It’s great to learn new skills and I would definitely at some point try resurfacing a cylinder head or block but I’m thinking better to try that on a 600.00 project. Oh, he said turnaround is 2 to 3 days. Can’t beat that. Another thing I’ve noticed is RA is out of stock for almost all the left bank exhaust manifold gaskets, only the cheapies are available. The exhaust manifold heat shield is a little worse for wear as well so might as well replace that. I see the new exhaust manifold hardware comes with red thread locker already applied to the studs. Any tips for removing the existing studs without breaking them off? Red loctire normally requires heat to remove and I don’t think it would be a good idea at all to add heat to get them out for fear of warping the head

 

[Wild one]

Update, I took that head with the scratch to a Performance shop locally, I won’t mention the full name just in case someday this thread is found with a google search using his name, he is a mechanic about 51 years old, super busy, not a high performance shop or machine shop but I know he’s rebuilt many engines and runs a very successful business, anyways, he said I had nothing to worry about with the scratch. Me being me, analyzing everything to death I took it to another local mechanic, this fellow is about 65 years old, runs a small auto repair shop that is nearing the end, him and his worker were just sitting in there enjoying their coffee, I had him look at it and he said he would have the heads resurfaced, he was poking at other spots saying hmmm, hmmmm. Something about heat making it worse, I should have really had my listening ears on. He recommended Crysler Automotive center

MACHINE SHOP

High Performance Engines and Racing Parts. Proud Member of the AERA! Engine Rebuilders Association Complete Brake Service - Machining car and truck drums and discs. Flywheel Service - Resurfacing.

cryslerautoparts.ca

I was talking with Darryn at Crysler machine shop and he said those heads should be resurfaced every time, something to do with the gaskets that are used now, again should have been listening better. The old gaskets I guess you could get away with more. Anyways Darryl quoted me 125.00 per head to deck or resurface, whatever it should be called. 150.00 per head with a leak down test or whatever he called it to test the valve’s, the seats I’m assuming? And 75.00 per manifold to deck them or if I have him do the resurface/test valves/and deck the manifolds 175.00 per head total. How does that pricing sound to you? Is he being fair, or does he know I’m a Noob and over pricing? So here’s what I’m thinking, I’m thinking learning is great, I’ve been trying to learn about engines for the past 3 years or so, rebuilding a couple snowmobile engines and such with SeaDoo’s as well but I’m thinking now is not the time to start experimenting with decking the heads myself on a vehicle I rely on for work and paid 34,000.00 for. It’s great to learn new skills and I would definitely at some point try resurfacing a cylinder head or block but I’m thinking better to try that on a 600.00 project. Oh, he said turnaround is 2 to 3 days. Can’t beat that. Another thing I’ve noticed is RA is out of stock for almost all the left bank exhaust manifold gaskets, only the cheapies are available. The exhaust manifold heat shield is a little worse for wear as well so might as well replace that. I see the new exhaust manifold hardware comes with red thread locker already applied to the studs. Any tips for removing the existing studs without breaking them off? Red loctire normally requires heat to remove and I don’t think it would be a good idea at all to add heat to get them out for fear of warping the head

That's not a bad price for resurfacing ,did he say if that also included a cleaning and magnaflux job to check for cracks.
Use Remflex 6022 exhaust gaskets.
Use an impact gun to pull the exhaust bolts,if they break,they break and you'll have to deal with them then,but you might get lucky and they all come out

If you have a brick and mortar speed shop close,odds are they'll have the Remflex gaskets in stock,if not gouge and screw Canuck amazon has them.

REMFLEX 6022 Gasket, Exhaust Manifold - Amazon Canada

REMFLEX 6022 Gasket in Exhaust Manifold.

www.amazon.ca

 

[BurtShaver]

That's not a bad price for resurfacing ,did he say if that also included a cleaning and magnaflux job to check for cracks.
Use Remflex 6022 exhaust gaskets.
Use an impact gun to pull the exhaust bolts,if they break,they break and you'll have to deal with them then,but you might get lucky and they all come out

If you have a brick and mortar speed shop close,odds are they'll have the Remflex gaskets in stock,if not gouge and screw Canuck amazon has them.

REMFLEX 6022 Gasket, Exhaust Manifold - Amazon Canada

REMFLEX 6022 Gasket in Exhaust Manifold.

www.amazon.ca

I can’t remember if that included a cleaning or not or if it included the magnaflux job. I know it does include to resurface the head, check that the valves are sealing and resurfacing the manifold for 175.00 per side. I will ask about the magnaflux. I doubt there’s much chance of them being cracked since the original issue was the broken valve spring? That’s my thinking anyways. Yea, that’s crazy expensive on Amazon compared to the pricing at RA for the OEM exhaust manifold gaskets

 

[Wild one]

I can’t remember if that included a cleaning or not or if it included the magnaflux job. I know it does include to resurface the head, check that the valves are sealing and resurfacing the manifold for 175.00 per side. I will ask about the magnaflux. I doubt there’s much chance of them being cracked since the original issue was the broken valve spring? That’s my thinking anyways. Yea, that’s crazy expensive on Amazon compared to the pricing at RA for the OEM exhaust manifold gaskets

The Remflex gaskets are like nothing you've ever seen,they're a thick graphite gasket,that allows for some expansion and contraction movement without breaking bolts like a multi layer gasket does.
I've been using nothing but the remflexes for the last 10 years on all my header or manifold installs,and have never had anything come back with a broken bolt. They're the only gasket i've ever had that'll handle a nitrous backfire and not blow out
They will make your hands dirty,and "do not" bend them on install.They also only call for 20 lb-ft of torque,so you don't really need to buy expensive hardware to bolt them on

 

[BurtShaver]

The Remflex gaskets are like nothing you've ever seen,they're a thick graphite gasket,that allows for some expansion and contraction movement without breaking bolts like a multi layer gasket does.
I've been using nothing but the remflexes for the last 10 years on all my header or manifold installs,and have never had anything come back with a broken bolt. They're the only gasket i've ever had that'll handle a nitrous backfire and not blow out
They will make your hands dirty,and "do not" bend them on install.They also only call for 20 lb-ft of torque,so you don't really need to buy expensive hardware to bolt them on

Ok, so get these remflexes then. After I posted I think I seen that the price in Amazon was for both gaskets so that’s just about the same price as OEM. And like you say for torque, don’t follow the manual, just torque to 20 ft. Ibs. As with everything in a sequence and in stages, say 7 , 15 and then final of 20 ft. Pounds. I can still just buy the Dorman that interchanges with OEM though for studs? They are stainless

 

[BurtShaver]

Any benefit of soaking those manifold bolts with WD-40 every couple of hours for a few days before going at them with the impact?

 

[BurtShaver]

The Remflex gaskets are like nothing you've ever seen,they're a thick graphite gasket,that allows for some expansion and contraction movement without breaking bolts like a multi layer gasket does.
I've been using nothing but the remflexes for the last 10 years on all my header or manifold installs,and have never had anything come back with a broken bolt. They're the only gasket i've ever had that'll handle a nitrous backfire and not blow out
They will make your hands dirty,and "do not" bend them on install.They also only call for 20 lb-ft of torque,so you don't really need to buy expensive hardware to bolt them on

I think when I was talking with the machine shop today he mentioned that they used to use graphite gaskets for the heads and that they were more forgiving,

 

[Wild one]

Ok, so get these remflexes then. After I posted I think I seen that the price in Amazon was for both gaskets so that’s just about the same price as OEM. And like you say for torque, don’t follow the manual, just torque to 20 ft. Ibs. As with everything in a sequence and in stages, say 7 , 15 and then final of 20 ft. Pounds. I can still just buy the Dorman that interchanges with OEM though for studs? They are stainless

Pretty well every torque sequence is just an ever widening circle starting in the middle.
If you don't have a torque sequence,start in the middle then imagine how you'd tighten the next bolt in the sequence by using an imaginary circle that gets bigger each time around.
I haven't used a torque wrench on an exhaust manifold in forever,but if you're installing the manifolds back on the heads when the heads are on a bench,and you don't trust your hand,then use a torque wrench

 

[BurtShaver]

Do you think there’s any benefit to soaking those exhaust manifold studs repeatedly over a day or 2 with WD-40 before going at them with the impact

 

[Wild one]

Any benefit of soaking those manifold bolts with WD-40 every couple of hours for a few days before going at them with the impact?

Don't use WD40,mix up some cheap or even used automatic transmission fluid and acetone in about a 50/50 ratio and use a spray bottle to spray it on the bolts.It's still one of the best penerating fluids going,the acetone wicks into the threads where the atf can do it's job of being a penerating fluid

 

[BurtShaver]

Don't use WD40,mix up some cheap or even used automatic transmission fluid and acetone in about a 50/50 ratio and use a spray bottle to spray it on the bolts.It's still one of the best penerating fluids going,the acetone wicks into the threads where the atf can do it's job of being a penerating fluid

Thank you Rick, I appreciate you sharing all this knowledge, I just happen to have both in my shop

 

[Wild one]

Thank you Rick, I appreciate you sharing all this knowledge, I just happen to have both in my shop

WD40 isn't a penetrating oil,it's a Water Dispersant formula that the guy that came up with it, developed on his 40th try,hense the name WD40

 

[BurtShaver]

The Remflex gaskets are like nothing you've ever seen,they're a thick graphite gasket,that allows for some expansion and contraction movement without breaking bolts like a multi layer gasket does.
I've been using nothing but the remflexes for the last 10 years on all my header or manifold installs,and have never had anything come back with a broken bolt. They're the only gasket i've ever had that'll handle a nitrous backfire and not blow out
They will make your hands dirty,and "do not" bend them on install.They also only call for 20 lb-ft of torque,so you don't really need to buy expensive hardware to bolt them on

your using these Remflex gaskets, no issue with them not having that built in heat deflector like the OEM ones? I’m going to order directly from Remflex website, seen one of the Amazon reviews say they weren’t packed very good from Amazon and then I don’t have to worry about counterfeit either

 

[Wild one]

your using these Remflex gaskets, no issue with them not having that built in heat deflector like the OEM ones? I’m going to order directly from Remflex website, seen one of the Amazon reviews say they weren’t packed very good from Amazon and then I don’t have to worry about counterfeit either

I've never worried to much about the missing heat deflectors. I'd rather have a gasket that allows for some expansion and contraction and not break bolts,lol.
I usually buy them from my local speed shop,as they have them hanging on the wall,and it gives me an excuse to go visit all my old speed shop buddies,lol

 

[BurtShaver]

Correct me if I’m wrong, this is my first time cleaning up after removing a mls gasket but there seems to be nothing to clean up. All that seems to be required is a quick brush with a brass brush and then make sure it’s grease free?

 

[Wild one]

Correct me if I’m wrong, this is my first time cleaning up after removing a mls gasket but there seems to be nothing to clean up. All that seems to be required is a quick brush with a brass brush and then make sure it’s grease free?

Brake Clean and a rag are usually all you need to clean most manifold surfaces these days,that's exhaust and intake both.Acetone and a rag will also work if you don't have brake clean handy
I was just thinking about you,and was gonna ask how you're making out Burt,when i seen you posted already

 

[BurtShaver]

Brake Clean and a rag are usually all you need to clean most manifold surfaces these days,that's exhaust and intake both.Acetone and a rag will also work if you don't have brake clean handy
I was just thinking about you,and was gonna ask how you're making out Burt,when i seen you posted already

Its been a slow go for me, with it being so cold here lately I have some of my stuff at my place in my heated small shop, my battery powered light, new lifters are in there soaking for the past 5 or so days, cylinder heads are in there, manifold and valve covers. I went to work over in the garage today around 10:00 and it was -6 in there, by the time I left at 1:30 it was -2 in there. I just find the environment in there is not conducive to productivity, I sure wish I had a heated, insulated garage at home, lol. I know, I know if I’m looking for sympathy it’s between **** and Syphilis in the dictionary. I know I’ve been warned by you and I’m taking a chance but I decided not to have the cylinder heads decked. As I mentioned in a previous post I had taken the head to one fellow at the Performance place and he said it would be fine and I had my cousin come have a look and he said it would be fine, so I decided to chance it and put the heads back in as is. I did put my straight edge in them both and I couldn’t see any light at all between the surfaces. I have planned to use some Permatex copper spray a gasket high temp sealant on the head gaskets, I was told it wasn’t needed by the guy at the performance place but thought it would a bit of insurance. I know it’s chance not having them decked or changing the manifolds but now after doing it once, it wouldn’t take nearly as long if I had to take the heads off again for whatever reason. Probably a backwards way of thinking but….

 

[BurtShaver]

Block is the same correct, seems all that is required is a quick brush and then brake clean in a rag? Also noticed this thick sludge in the one cooling jacket that goes nowhere, almost a consistency of saw hardened saw dust.

 

[Wild one]

Block is the same correct, seems all that is required is a quick brush and then brake clean in a rag? View attachment 559279Also noticed this thick sludge in the one cooling jacket that goes nowhere, almost a consistency of saw hardened saw dust.

Check out some of the latest casting sand issue threads Burt.a few guys are running a coolant filter on their 6.4's and 3.6's these days.There's a few threads in the heavy duty section,and @EdGs has a thread on the issues he found in his 5.7