Off Road Package

[BoldAdventure]

Longiveity is why the PW has a lower rated payload and towing. Sure you can take a prius and haul 1000lbs of concrete once but try it everyday. Same principle with the PW. Then toss in the J2807 standard and there's the answer. I think the PW will soon be offered in 2wd like the Z71 and TRD off-road as they are the new fade. Everyone wants the looks of a big truck but no one uses it as intended, aka mall crawlers.

While that's true, you can adjust for that. Most aren't doing that every day either. Better shocks, different springs, air bags, better tires, there are options.

My thought is, you really don't need to worry if you are a few hundred pounds over. But you should be wise enough to know you can't pull a 20K trailer up the Ike.



On another note, I doubt they'll do that with the PW, that would dilute the brand. And those other popular trims are all in the half ton segment. Which is why I think they introduced the Rebel. It makes more sense to do cheese ball trim lines in the half ton segment.

Guys... You are NOT making my decision between a 2500 SLT and a Power Wagon any easier!!! Damn.. Good points!!

I doubt I will have my **** together by July so I can order a 2016. So, that leaves me with a used 2016 or a new 2017's. I am really hung up on the PW RAM badging and black powder coated bumpers for the 2017 model year. Yeah, I get they are powder coating the bumpers for Durability as well as looks but I think the black power coat will show every single scuff/scratch. I have black powder coated wheels on my current Silverado and I can tell you they have not held up well AT ALL..

2016 Power Wagon w/tradesman trim are very rare around here. Yes, there are several 2016 PW within 200 miles, but most are the standard PW or the Laramie with window stickers in the mid to high 50's.. Not possible for me.. I am looking for something OTD in the $35,000-$40,000 range.

I really hate the new RAM grill and tailgate. Anything that has the massive RAM lettering will automatically be thrown out. Again, just one man's opinion.

Also, I am hung up on axle ratios. I want a 4:10 rear end with anti-slip. No exceptions. It is VERY hard to find a 4:10 in anything that is not a PW. They just don't have them on the lots. Everything I have read says the 6.4 and trans perform better with the 4:10. If I get a 2500 SLT I plan on getting larger tires so the 4:10 will be cut down a bit.

Decisions... decisions. I wish I could just order what I want but may not be able to take advantage of incentives and dealer special pricing like I would for trucks sitting on the lots.

Thanks for all the input..

Sorry, that 2017 is what did it in for me. I saw it and wanted one, but I just couldn't wait. The new rims look fantastic, and the touches on the seating are nice. But there wasn't much else different. And the more I thought about it, the more I figured I'd just get a 2015 for 12K less than sticker and call it a day.


I've been happy. It's been a great truck. A diesel would tow better, but we like to play too, and we use our truck the way it was meant. And it's not all the time all year, but I know we can have fun when we want to. And be comfortable the rest of the time and up to the task we ask of it, which is to tow our 6980lbs of Airstream around.

Good luck in your decision making.

 

[Danno]

While that's true, you can adjust for that. Most aren't doing that every day either. Better shocks, different springs, air bags, better tires, there are options.

My thought is, you really don't need to worry if you are a few hundred pounds over. But you should be wise enough to know you can't pull a 20K trailer up the Ike.



On another note, I doubt they'll do that with the PW, that would dilute the brand. And those other popular trims are all in the half ton segment. Which is why I think they introduced the Rebel. It makes more sense to do cheese ball trim lines in the half ton segment.

20k up the Ike, we all know it can't do 12k up the Ike. So better shocks, tires, air bags, springs... Guess what it's no longer a PW, it's a confused 2500 that does nothing well and still can't tow at max advertised capacity up the Ike. Just buy a capable truck and toss a winch on it.

Cheese ball trims, the 2014 and beyond graphics fit that bill, the 2017 trim pushed it passed the cheese ball level. I could See this when there was one trim and were not diluting the brand, the power wagon. Now theres the PW, PW cheese ball stage 1 and PW cheese ball stage 2 packages.

 

[PWR-WAGN]

20k up the Ike, we all know it can't do 12k up the Ike. So better shocks, tires, air bags, springs... Guess what it's no longer a PW, it's a confused 2500 that does nothing well and still can't tow at max advertised capacity up the Ike. Just buy a capable truck and toss a winch on it.

Cheese ball trims, the 2014 and beyond graphics fit that bill, the 2017 trim pushed it passed the cheese ball level. I could See this when there was one trim and were not diluting the brand, the power wagon. Now theres the PW, PW cheese ball stage 1 and PW cheese ball stage 2 packages.

The max capacity of a PW was tested by TFL Truck up the Ike and it performed flawlessly. Granted that was roughly 10K lbs in tow with 1400 lb payload. If we are going to split hairs and discuss which 2500 gasser model RAM is overrated (literally), it would be the regular 2500 not the PW. The point a few of us were trying to make in this thread was that in using a PW at it's advertised max (albeit lower than other 2500 configs); one could do so without worry.

To each his own with styling, but the fact is that the PW package creates the most off-road capable HD truck on the market. Strapping a winch to a regular 2500 won't give you locking differentials, articulation or proper spring rates for anything more rugged than a gravel road - the PW ride on coils is very nice! Is it perfect? No... I really wish my 2016 still had 4.56 gears and the 6.4/66RFE combo had better torque management and ratios.

The truck market has shifted towards offering off-road packages that are nothing more than crappy shocks, blingy badges and a skid plate or two. The PW and Raptor aside, the domestic manufacturers have mostly avoided this niche of the truck market for mainstream offerings while Nissan and Toyota have not. I'm glad FCA/Dodge/RAM has borrowed Jeep technology and packaged it on a useful platform that is the PW. I hope the new off-road package is something in between that offers value and useful features without diluting the PW name.

Maybe a 2500 version of the Rebel (that looks like the 2017 PW) with graphics and unique styling, but without all the PW goodies would add more credibility to the PW and offer something cheaper for those that want the over-the-top look???

 

[Danno]

The point a few of us were trying to make in this thread was that in using a PW at it's advertised max (albeit lower than other 2500 configs); one could do so without worry.

Did you happen to read the first post?? It was about the "off road package". 10k towing, thats 1/2 ton range so I hope it pulled it.

Well. I am still waiting on buying my 2500. Mainly waiting on Volkswagen to to buyback my two TDI's as part of their huge emissions scandal. So, as of now, I am being held hostage by VW. Needless to say, it may be a few months before I am serious about buying and head out to the dealers (regardless of what I have posted previously)

Ram released news of an "off road" package in February of this year. I guess it comes with skid plates, hill decent control, locker in the rear, all-terrain tires, Bilstien shocks and some other minor items (decals). I have been going back an forth between a lower optioned Power Wagon Tradesman and a regular SLT. I am thinking the "off road package" may be a nice compromise. BUT, I am not sure what it offers (other than hill decent control) that I couldn't add to an SLT as an option. Living in MI, I doubt I would ever use hill decent control. Would rather have the Power Wagon's winch!

Any thoughts on the new off road package?
I heard it would be available in the 3rd quarter of this year but have not heard of specific dates or prices. Any news on this package???

If anyone can link a previous discussion on this topic that would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[PWR-WAGN]

Did you happen to read the first post?? It was about the "off road package". 10k towing, thats 1/2 ton range so I hope it pulled it.

Did you read the entire thread or just the first post? The OP was debating between a PW or a regular 2500 w/off road package as future options and that's what most posters have debated. Just because I support the one that you don't, doesn't mean you have to insult my reading comprehension.

And yes, a half-ton can pull 10K up the Ike... But, can it drop it's load at the top and crawl across the divide on a trail? Maybe it can, maybe it can't, but I know for sure the PW is equipped for that task.

Finally, proclaiming some other truck with a winch is a more capable "on-road" truck than the PW may be absolutely true. However, when the OP is asking about the RAM 2500 off-road packages/options/etc. and how it compares to the current PW, I felt it necessary to rebut the validity of your comment.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Is someone seriously doubting/mocking the capabilities of the PW by it's measly '10k' tow rating? It is one of the top rated trucks on the IKE Gauntlet by TFL Truck (8:00 w/ 10,000 trailer-1,400 payload). Authority over the load is rarely spoken about, and the PW weighs over 7,000; 10,000 rated capacity is a joke. It is a special-purpose vehicle, with only 2,500 being produced in the 15+' model year for the U.S. and Canadian market versus 370,000-380,000 RAMs. Actually, it dominated TFL Trucks off-road class (winning off-road toty 2015/2016) and recently won 4x4 of the year in numerous publications. It's hard to believe they (off-road mall-crawler packages) are shown in the same light.. If you even slightly are considering a PW, go for it, you won't regret it. You will more-than-likely regret an 'off-road' packaged RAM however, if you'd attempt to get near PW specs..

 

[Danno]

We all know the pros of the power wagon but no one ever speaks of the cons. So here they are.

Locking diffs are only activated in 4low. Why.
Front axle articulates, back doesnt. What's the point if only one does it?
Winch is only on the front. Hope you plan on going forward.
No driver info on steering position, inclines/degrees.
Lack the 360 camera system of others.
Optional factory lighting, need better lighting around the complete vehicle.
No gear hold that will not allow down shift, the gear hold only restricts up shift.

Other brands you can get lockers. They work in 2we, 4we, 4wd low. It doesn't matter. They also have traction control which is old school lockers when you apply brake pressure to engage traction.

Winch baskets, you can move a winch from the rear class v hitch to the front as needed.

Driver info, instead of hanging your head out the window to see what direction your wheels are the dash tells you. Also tells the inclines. You would think this would be standard required info on a Power Wagon but Ram doesn't even offer it.

Power Wagon is 1/2 ton capacity with HD price tag, not to mention is missing some features that other offer.

 

[reloaderguy]

 

[PWR-WAGN]

We all know the pros of the power wagon but no one ever speaks of the cons. So here they are.

Locking diffs are only activated in 4low. Why.
Front axle articulates, back doesnt. What's the point if only one does it?
Winch is only on the front. Hope you plan on going forward.
No driver info on steering position, inclines/degrees.
Lack the 360 camera system of others.
Optional factory lighting, need better lighting around the complete vehicle.
No gear hold that will not allow down shift, the gear hold only restricts up shift.

Other brands you can get lockers. They work in 2we, 4we, 4wd low. It doesn't matter. They also have traction control which is old school lockers when you apply brake pressure to engage traction.

Winch baskets, you can move a winch from the rear class v hitch to the front as needed.

Driver info, instead of hanging your head out the window to see what direction your wheels are the dash tells you. Also tells the inclines. You would think this would be standard required info on a Power Wagon but Ram doesn't even offer it.

Power Wagon is 1/2 ton capacity with HD price tag, not to mention is missing some features that other offer.

I'm not going to counter everything you've said here, because I actually agree that some of the features you've mentioned would be nice additions to the PW setup (better lighting, around view montior, vehicle dynamic display, etc.). However, I will say this... The current Power Wagon hasn't evolved much since it was introduced in 2005. The 2017 model year will be the fourth year of the coil sprung 4th gen version. It's aged a bit for sure. So going out on the web and pulling all the latest and greatest off-road features from two newly designed 2016 trucks (Tacoma TRD Pro and the Titan XD Pro-4x) really isn't a fair argument.

Furthermore, I'll say it again! The PW is the best performing, most capable off-road biased HD truck on the market!!! Justifying it's price, value, lifestyle functionality or on-road capability for your specific purpose can be debated; it's definitely not for everyone. It's a niche vehicle, but is still a solid option because it does quite a few things well right out of the gate.

And the half-ton versus PW argument is moot... It's common knowledge that the PW is de-rated (insert reason here), but that doesn't change the fact it's still a 3/4 ton truck! Horsepower, torque and pulling speed can be matched by half-tons, but frame strength, braking, vehicle stability/mass and bad*** appeal all go the PW.

BTW... locking differentials (especially in the front) are most valuable when crawling... so tell me why you do need them it any selection other than 4-Low?

 

[reloaderguy]

We all know the pros of the power wagon but no one ever speaks of the cons. So here they are.

Locking diffs are only activated in 4low. Why. Because lawyers...I have a locker bypass.
Front axle articulates, back doesnt. What's the point if only one does it? The front swaybar does almost all of the work. The rear is skinny and flexes.
Winch is only on the front. Hope you plan on going forward. Who makes a 12K, let alone a 15K rear winch OEM?
No driver info on steering position, inclines/degrees.
Lack the 360 camera system of others.
Optional factory lighting, need better lighting around the complete vehicle. True but the other factory options are pretty underwhelming too.
No gear hold that will not allow down shift, the gear hold only restricts up shift. The 66RFE is the PW's single biggest weakness. Gear hold is pretty low on the list though if you're using crawl ratios.

Other brands you can get lockers. They work in 2we, 4we, 4wd low. It doesn't matter. They also have traction control which is old school lockers when you apply brake pressure to engage traction. The PW lockers are limited slip when disengaged, lockers are of very limited utility in 2Hi and 4Hi. The 11.5 E-Locker is massive compared to anything else OE on the market.

Winch baskets, you can move a winch from the rear class v hitch to the front as needed. The PW comes with a 15K Warn winch they like to call 12K. I'm wondering if you understand what it takes to correctly set up a truck for a removeable 15K winch? Front receivers aren't rated for 15K which is why it is permanently mounted to the frame. The rear's wiring would take 4/0 welding cable because that winch has max draw of 460A. What on the market even comes close to that?

Driver info, instead of hanging your head out the window to see what direction your wheels are the dash tells you. Also tells the inclines. You would think this would be standard required info on a Power Wagon but Ram doesn't even offer it. That's even a thing? I guess I put a higher priority on giant axles with lockers and a winch that can pull double the weight of the truck. This is the equivalent dazzling consumers with ********.

Power Wagon is 1/2 ton capacity with HD price tag, not to mention is missing some features that other offer. Simple numbers for simple people.

answered in red.

 

[Danno]

Remeber this, need we say anymore??

 

[Sweet5ltr]

answered in red.

Right on point

The PW is the gold standard in the off-road 1/2-3/4 ton segment, with literally no exceptions.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Remeber this??

Yeah, Camera crew ditched a PW out in soft sand during low-tide after it got wedged on a rock. Waited until the oncoming high-tide to attempt a serious rescue. No production vehicle on the planet could dig itself out of that one, insane loss for a simple shoot. location, location, location.. * truck was a pre-production 14' 'cobbled together' without even the winch being wired, they decided to climb sea rocks!?

 

[PWR-WAGN]

Remeber this, need we say anymore??

Even the pure awesomeness of the PW can't overcome gross operator error! There's your caption.

 

[PWR-WAGN]

answered in red.

I'm glad I'm not the only one calling BS on the whole "PW is overrated" topic. Great responses, reloaderguy!

 

[theviking]

You guys are missing the bigger picture here.

Danno has never posted anything positive about a Ram product on this site. Instead, he consistently goes out of his way to distort facts and project a negative image about Ram products while at the same time touting the competitor products (usually Ford). Funny how someone on a Ram enthusiast site would be inclined to constantly berating their products and drag threads off topic with fabricated garbage. Especially when it's a model they actually have no first-hard experience with (Power Wagon, 6.4, Rebel, etc). Sometimes he tries to come across like a master tech, and other times he sounds like a delusional keyboard warrior with a grudge.

Most other users post descriptions/pictures of their current and past Ram trucks (and related vehicles), share vehicle modification details, fun stories, location, age, occupation, etc. Again, because they are Ram truck enthusiasts on a Ram forum. Odd that none of that happens either.

Hopefully we'll get an admin to pay attention soon and boot him for being the obvious troll that he is.

 

[crazy jerry]

We all know the pros of the power wagon but no one ever speaks of the cons. So here they are.

Locking diffs are only activated in 4low. Why.
Front axle articulates, back doesnt. What's the point if only one does it?
Winch is only on the front. Hope you plan on going forward.
No driver info on steering position, inclines/degrees.
Lack the 360 camera system of others.
Optional factory lighting, need better lighting around the complete vehicle.
No gear hold that will not allow down shift, the gear hold only restricts up shift.

Other brands you can get lockers. They work in 2we, 4we, 4wd low. It doesn't matter. They also have traction control which is old school lockers when you apply brake pressure to engage traction.

Winch baskets, you can move a winch from the rear class v hitch to the front as needed.

Driver info, instead of hanging your head out the window to see what direction your wheels are the dash tells you. Also tells the inclines. You would think this would be standard required info on a Power Wagon but Ram doesn't even offer it.

Power Wagon is 1/2 ton capacity with HD price tag, not to mention is missing some features that other offer.

if the lockers were engagable in anything but 4lo it would be a disaster. drunken idiots would surely turn them on at 75mph on the highway. I know Toyotas can easy be engaged in all t-case positions with a back door wire mod. maybe pw is the same I don't know. im not one to bend the rules in case something malfunctions and voids my warranty

the pw could have a lot of other fancy gadgets but no matter how much crap it had there would still be guys like you that said "it should have this or that and this or that should be different". no vehicle can please everybody. ford and chevys "off road" packages are pathetic. everytime I see a z71 or fx4 I laugh my ass off at the fool driving it that thinks he has a off road vehicle. why not go bother the folks at ford or chevy forums ?

 

[MN-Ram]

When I worked at a Jeep dealership about 10-15 years ago, I remember when the Wrangler Rubicon 1st came out. As I recall they could only engage their lockers in 4-Low as well. They were still badass on the trails. I always looked at it as if I can go fast enough to not need 4-Low, I didn't need the lockers either.

I wouldn't mind having a rear locker in my 3500 for when I'm back in the woods cutting firewood, but I haven't needed one yet either.

 

[Danno]

Other manufactures allow the lockers to be engaged in 2wd, 4wd hi/low. They also automatically disenage the electronic lockers at a certain speed.

When it comes to technology some are cutting edge. Ram is years behind in the technology improvements.

The ram reef is a prime example of its not the capability of the vehicle but capability of the driver as the manufacture got a rock crawler stuck on a rock.

Theviking sorry that I'm not the average ram fanboy. I'm not a run with the fade brand jumper and know what to expect with these vehicle being my 6th I have bought new.

 

[crazy jerry]

i can only speak for myself but im glad pw doesn't have a bunch of useless garbage like those tilt gauges in the dash and 2wd locker. to each their own I suppose