Oil Filter Thread

[06 Dodge]

My post 3253:

"
Ok - some cross references to midsize Fram Oil Filter XX 10575

Fleetguard LF17531
Donaldson P577066

Unfortunately both are paper media."

So my Q is does everyone think that the paper filtering media will hold up for 7-8K or one year in the Hemi? I will say it would be nice based on what the posters over at BITOG claims about the LF16002 is to find out if it's is indead paper or stratapore media like they claim....

 

[Curmudgeon]

did you use advanced auto parts?

Yes, AAP is the only place that sells them, and they have the OEM size
for $15.99. I don't know how to find the larger size.

EDIT: I'm in no hurry, I have years of filters in the garage, just trying to keep on top of the new-new/best-best.

 

[Burla]

Find the larger size by putting 2010 in the make and model bar. And when I did, no EP option. So now if you have to decide between a small Carquest EP or a large puro boss, seeing they both have the same exact media, it would be an easy choice.

 

[Burla]

So my Q is does everyone think that the paper filtering media will hold up for 7-8K or one year in the Hemi? I will say it would be nice based on what the posters over at BITOG claims about the LF16002 is to find out if it's is indead paper or stratapore media like they claim....

In my personal experience and like 99% of the testing and reporting I have seen, paper filters are not going to hold up that long. And of course the downside is basically you have no protection at that point. Serious rock catchers.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

• Find the larger size by putting 2010 in the make and model bar. And when I did, no EP option. So now if you have to decide between a small Carquest EP or a large puro boss, seeing they both have the same exact media, it would be an easy choice.

  Carquest Premium
• Synthetic blend media provides 99.5% efficiency at 20 microns and 2X capacity vs. Standard filters

Carquest EP Filters
99–99.5% efficiency at 25 microns

I'm going with the Premium.

 

[HEMIMANN]

So my Q is does everyone think that the paper filtering media will hold up for 7-8K or one year in the Hemi? I will say it would be nice based on what the posters over at BITOG claims about the LF16002 is to find out if it's is indead paper or stratapore media like they claim....

I don't think coated paper can hit high efficiencies, from what little I've read about media capability. Which is why many use synthetic "blend" media.

CarQuest Premium Oil Filter has high efficiency and is a synthetic blend. CarQuest EP is all synthetic, but lower efficiency. BITOG speculated this was because the can size is the same, but that doesn't make intuitive sense to me. I have not seen test data for CarQuest. PGI is purported to be the CarQuest maker.

Fleetguard has gotten real squirrely since Cummins closed the Iowa factory and moved production to Mexico, then spun off the division as a stand-alone entity. It's website is extremely difficult to read today.
Much like the rest of this industry buying and selling each other in a race to the bottom for product quality.

I would use coated paper as a last resort. It's all there was 40 years ago, but engines weren't pushed to lubrication limits back then either.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I have a more unique problem, of course - the big diameter oil filter doesn't fit my 6.4 Hemi in the 3/4 ton truck.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

I have a more unique problem, of course - the big diameter oil filter doesn't fit my 6.4 Hemi in the 3/4 ton truck.

The SRT size?

It fits on mine.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Find the larger size by putting 2010 in the make and model bar. And when I did, no EP option. So now if you have to decide between a small Carquest EP or a large puro boss, seeing they both have the same exact media, it would be an easy choice.

Using the 2010 MY my local AA store is showing the EP filter P85372 for $16.99. Not giving them away are they? This filter is showing 3.66" x 3.74", basically the same as the 20-820s I have.

So we can get the "better" full syn media of the 20k mile filter or the better? filtration of the Premium, if what I read is true. I'll never go 20k OCI, rather have better filtration. If I really want max flow at the risk of filtration I'll just install a pipe!

EDIT, forgot link to filter...

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...t+oil+filter&selectedFulfillment=store_pickup

 

[HEMIMANN]

Here's the thing - if you don't get good enough efficiency, there's no point having an oil filter, per SAE tests.

It's a false choice to focus exclusively on efficiency or restriction. Both are needed.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Here's the thing - if you don't get good enough efficiency, there's no point having an oil filter, per SAE tests.

It's a false choice to focus exclusively on efficiency or restriction. Both are needed.

Just my opinion but I've always thought we chased the larger filters so we could at least approach the best of both.
Maximum filtration efficiency at (near) zero restriction would likely require at rather large filter. Hooking up 2 filters in parallel surely seems to be getting there.

If I could get insanity-level filtration I would try it and run 1k mile OCI for a bit. Maybe even 0w-20 PUP or R&P for flow, see how clean I can get my oil. But as it stands I don't even have a choice.

 

[Burla]

Using the 2010 MY my local AA store is showing the EP filter P85372 for $16.99. Not giving them away are they? This filter is showing 3.66" x 3.74", basically the same as the 20-820s I have.

So we can get the "better" full syn media of the 20k mile filter or the better? filtration of the Premium, if what I read is true. I'll never go 20k OCI, rather have better filtration. If I really want max flow at the risk of filtration I'll just install a pipe!

EDIT, forgot link to filter...

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...t+oil+filter&selectedFulfillment=store_pickup

nice, and there is a promo see that? 3 bucks off per. Of course on Carquest we have no data, but it appears sames ilk as puro boss.

One thing is for sure, rarely in actual testing does microns match what manu says, go figure. That's why we miss the spun glass era, hopefully it comes back. However, the boss did do better in both engineers testing on particles.

.

 

[Burla]

I hate to bring data up, but why when engineers in test after test always have a similar finding in filters? Actual testing time and time again same result?? The answer is synthetic media pure and simple. Hunt spec sheets and settle for paper good luck with that. Time and time again test after test 15 years plus, this result is NO SUIRPRISE. 15 years ago we had GM test, now history repeats itself.

 

[Govtman]

Is the EP new? I can easily find the Premium Carquest, having trouble locating an EP in the OEM size. Does anyone know the filter number for the EP equivalent of the oversize for the 5.7? Like the RP 20-820?

 

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks. Found it. Look up, Post #3689.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Just my opinion but I've always thought we chased the larger filters so we could at least approach the best of both.
Maximum filtration efficiency at (near) zero restriction would likely require at rather large filter. Hooking up 2 filters in parallel surely seems to be getting there.

If I could get insanity-level filtration I would try it and run 1k mile OCI for a bit. Maybe even 0w-20 PUP or R&P for flow, see how clean I can get my oil. But as it stands I don't even have a choice.

Yes - the statement I made is for a given size canister. Some can get and use larger canisters, which in my view is always a good thing - it increases particle trapping capacity and lengthens OCI's, and for some reason seems to reduce flow restriction.

None of us could figure out this last part - legacy engine oil pumps are gerotor, which are constant flow / variable pressure. It turns out that there is some type of interplay that flow and pressure track together, and a larger surface area keeps flow rates up.

So use the biggest filter you can find that fits, that is efficient. For me, that is NOT the RP 20-820 and Fram XG2 size. These are too large for the 6.4 that has a molded lower rad hose parked near the edge.

For any of you 5.7 people, yes the bigger size is fine, maybe not fun to wedge up there, but fits.

Yes, guys like Rick go all the way and have double filtration to get that surface area up. I got too many other things to constantly fix than to dink around with stuff like this.

 

[Burla]

Since some members want to hear what zee says on filters such as Puro Boss, this is what he says on Carquest EP. So before running EP over another filter, consider this if you like what zee says more then engineer testing. He prefers a paper filter over Carquest EP at 10k miles. Again, if he is Mr filter I just want to know what tests are done at the end of a filters life that causes him to recommend paper. Any ISO for that? I have looked, I cannot find that.

Could assume the holding capacity of the EP is twice as high than the Premium because it's rated for twice the max mileage. For the Carquest EP, at half loaded (10K miles) it would be 96.5% @ 20u. So if the EP is only 1/4 loaded at 10K miles if loaded at the same debris rate to its max mileage rating, then the efficiency would be better than 96.5% @ 20 at 10K miles, but I don't think it's going to be as good as a fully loaded Premium at 10K miles, or at any point. Running the EP to 15K miles as you mentioned above, the EP will still not be as good as the Premium at 10K miles. But the EP efficiency is still pretty good for a 20K mile rated oil filter. Better than some other oil filters rated to 20K miles, like the Boss, Purolator Gold 20K and the Mobil 1 Extended use.

For the 2 pennies it's worth, Burla still says run syn filters even at 10k miles. He is comparing a paper blend versus poly. I call bull that at 10k miles paper filters are anywhere near iso testing on new media. Not a overwhelming positive post, I wonder what he thought of the old spun glass that were running stats til they ended. He does say he likes Carquest EP over boss because of what a spec sheet says. From what I have been able to ascertain their is not an iso test for paper media at the end of an interval. One might use common sense that a filter that uses binders and paper in a hot oil environment simply isn't going to be as effective at 10k versus no thousand miles, but there is a lack of actual data.

Zee says use Carquest premium over EP on 10k interval.

.

.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Not sure many here would run a Hemi beyond 5k OCI - not from oil breakdown, but from deposit formation internally with poor / no cam lubrication.

I'm uninterested in the 10k or 20k discussion, only so much as it impacts media efficiency and flow rate.

For Hemi, I want high efficiency, decent flow, and capacity to get to 5k miles. That's it. Spun filament filters did it all. Hucksters took them away from us, at least in the mid-size range. My read is Zee is going for efficiency for wear reasons. Obviously, if a filter is highly efficient but doesn't flow, that's no good either for a low flow engine like Hemi. But neither is a free-flowing rock catcher any good. It's useless.

And so, the hunt goes onward...

 

[Curmudgeon]

The other issue with extreme high efficiency filters is that when they get "their fill" and begin to clog and restrict flow, they will eventually go into bypass.

The issue part is that we have no way of knowing:
1) if a filter goes into bypass;
2) when or for how long a filter went into bypass.

When that valve opens, not only are we pumping unfiltered oil through
our engines, but we are blowing that oil right past all the debris the filter caught, probably pushing out and into the engine.

If I got my hands on a filter that was all that incredibly efficient I would probably get PUP or R&P in quantity and get set up to run 1K OCIs, sort of flush out the engine. Maybe start extending while monitoring the oil on the dipstick as well as what pours out at OCI. 1K to 2k to 3k, etc.
Then switch to HPL and the best syn media filter I can find (for example) once everything looks good. There would be a few UOAs in there as well.

That's my wish list for a lube strategy. I fear it will remain a wish.

 

[HEMIMANN]

The other issue with extreme high efficiency filters is that when they get "their fill" and begin to clog and restrict flow, they will eventually go into bypass.

The issue part is that we have no way of knowing:
1) if a filter goes into bypass;
2) when or for how long a filter went into bypass.

When that valve opens, not only are we pumping unfiltered oil through
our engines, but we are blowing that oil right past all the debris the filter caught, probably pushing out and into the engine.

If I got my hands on a filter that was all that incredibly efficient I would probably get PUP or R&P in quantity and get set up to run 1K OCIs, sort of flush out the engine. Maybe start extending while monitoring the oil on the dipstick as well as what pours out at OCI. 1K to 2k to 3k, etc.
Then switch to HPL and the best syn media filter I can find (for example) once everything looks good. There would be a few UOAs in there as well.

That's my wish list for a lube strategy. I fear it will remain a wish.

Yup - in industry, they spend the extra coin to include differential pressure gauges, some with telemetric data readout and warnings. And also multiple banks of filters so engines can be changed on the fly (while running) in base load applications.

For residential consumer engines - not so much. I'm sure there are pressure gauge kits out there, or you can make a dually filter manifold kit. We were doing great until First Brands Holding Company Pyramid Scheme went bust.