Power Wagon Purchase Checklist

[JamesgPW]

But due to the Magnuson Moss act, wouldn’t they still have to prove that your signs of off-roading was the direct cause of whatever they’re wanting to void your warranty on?


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So to clarify, RAM will not flat out void your warranty if there are signs of off road use but they will document things the way they want to so down the road they can use the documentation to deny a claim. I recently had an experience where mud splashed into my engine bay and caused some irregular vibration which was remedied by cleaning the radiator/fan assembly. The RAM dealer documented it in a manner which will allow them to deny any warranty claims for any parts which might fail in my engine bay. When I presented them with RAMs claim that the Power Wagon can ford 30 inches of water, they responded with any damage from water will not be covered under warranty, even though the bottom of the engine bay and axles would be under water if you were to ford 30 inches of water. Also, when you go to the RAM dealer for service and they plug in their OBD2 reader, it will tell them how many times you have engaged 4hi, 4lo, locked your axles, disconnected your swaybar, or turned off traction control.

All this said, the truck is amazing off road and I love it. The warranty on my last rig was long expired so I just look at it that way.

 

[thkbaron]

Check things that are covered under warranty still. I know this is kind of a weird question but it makes sense. I had a pinion seal leak that I missed when I bought mine. Obviously the dealer never really looked at it. The last two used vehicles I bought they didn't look at **** and they were ram/dodge dealers. If the recall has been done on the drag link see what they did and if it's welded make sure your steering wheel is straight. I didn't understand all of this before I bought mine and I'm stuck with a crooked steering wheel until I buy the upgraded part.

 

[Airforce 1]

I'm considering a purchase of a pre-owned 2018 Power Wagon that I believe is at a local Ford dealership. It has low mileage, and appears in pictures to be in good shape.

I'm interested in advise on what to check thoroughly before signing, and maybe a checklist of items that should be included before I leave with the truck.

One item that caused me to think about asking was my concern about the winch and its controller. Should I actually unspool the cable?

Thank you all in advance.

Buy it and go find the biggest hill! Enjoy the off-road ride of your life.

 

[62Blazer]

But due to the Magnuson Moss act, wouldn’t they still have to prove that your signs of off-roading was the direct cause of whatever they’re wanting to void your warranty on?


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Well, yes and no. I think you are referring to the fact they cannot void the warranty because of the presence of an aftermarket part. They can only deny warranty on a failure of a part if they can prove that the addition or replacement with an aftermarket part was a reasonable cause of the failure. That means if your radio stops working they can't deny the warranty because you have a Flowmaster muffler on it. The M-M act also specifically states they cannot require "branded" replacement parts. This means that can't deny the warranty because you didn't use a Mopar oil filter or Mopar engine oil. As long as the aftermarket brand of oil meets the requirements it should be fine.

The other part of the M-M act is that the warranty has to explicitly state in writing what the exceptions are. In this particular case of a Power Wagon and off-road, the warranty would have to specifically state what off-road driving event/actions/ evidence of use could cause the warranty to be denied, or at least reference an official document (such as the owner's manual).

 

[crazy jerry]

So to clarify, RAM will not flat out void your warranty if there are signs of off road use but they will document things the way they want to so down the road they can use the documentation to deny a claim. I recently had an experience where mud splashed into my engine bay and caused some irregular vibration which was remedied by cleaning the radiator/fan assembly. The RAM dealer documented it in a manner which will allow them to deny any warranty claims for any parts which might fail in my engine bay. When I presented them with RAMs claim that the Power Wagon can ford 30 inches of water, they responded with any damage from water will not be covered under warranty, even though the bottom of the engine bay and axles would be under water if you were to ford 30 inches of water. Also, when you go to the RAM dealer for service and they plug in their OBD2 reader, it will tell them how many times you have engaged 4hi, 4lo, locked your axles, disconnected your swaybar, or turned off traction control.

All this said, the truck is amazing off road and I love it. The warranty on my last rig was long expired so I just look at it that way.

by definition, fording meens to wade though water. if your going in 30" of water at high rate of speed it seems reasonable to expect water where you dont want it. like the intake system for example. maybe youve pondered what the purpose of the aev snorkel is? well wonder no more. why would you run to the dealer with mud packed in the radiator , fan assembly or between the belt and pulleys. its no suprise to me why these trucks are nannied beyond belief. its sad world now days

 

[JamesgPW]

by definition, fording meens to wade though water. if your going in 30" of water at high rate of speed it seems reasonable to expect water where you dont want it. like the intake system for example. maybe youve pondered what the purpose of the aev snorkel is? well wonder no more. why would you run to the dealer with mud packed in the radiator , fan assembly or between the belt and pulleys. its no suprise to me why these trucks are nannied beyond belief. its sad world now days

I think you’re making a lot of assumptions.

10 mph is high speed? I drove through about 12 inches of muddy water not 30. I also didn’t run to the dealer with mud packed anywhere. I sprayed out my engine bay but the issue persisted so I finally went to the dealer. I don’t need an AEV snorkel because I don’t go in water deep enough. Two points:

1st, if RAM is going to advertise the Power Wagon to be as off road worthy as they do, they should engineer a level of protection for components which are going to be exposed to the riggers of off road use. In addition, they should make accessing components which will need cleaning from off road use much simpler. Clearly spraying out the radiator/fan assembly with my garden hose didnt resolve the issue and required a more in depth breakdown of the assembly to clean out. That seems to be poor engineering in my opinion.

2nd, they should not encourage dealerships to exaggerate documentation to cover themselves against warranty claims and also make statements which completely counter what RAM advertises.

I suppose I’m just used to the respectable after market from building my last rig. The component or systems I installed were backed by the manufactures with no questions asked. For example, ARB fully backed, replaced, and covered the labor, for an onboard air compressor which failed after two years of regular use.

 

[crazy jerry]

do you have photos of the engine bay after the muddy water ? did water go in a electric connector ? these trucks are driven offroad in all types of envirments with no trouble so your story isnt adding up to me unless it was some type of freak situation you encountered

 

[Chris_]

Buy it and go find the biggest hill! Enjoy the off-road ride of your life.

Great idea !
Maybe... It sounds like an amazing vehicle for Moab or desolate stretches of New Mexico or Arizona (if one has a bed full of gasoline carrying Jerry cans). But, is it equally suitable for northern Georgia, western North Carolina, or eastern Tennessee? Some trails are twisty and confined. The Great Smoky Mountains Park isn't always conducive to going around obstacles. With the domination of Jeeps and Tacomas on trails around this area, I'm concerned that that the Power Wagon, though capable, just carries too much bulk for anything smaller than fire roads or maintenance access roads.

 

[Trailmaker]

Great idea !
Maybe... It sounds like an amazing vehicle for Moab or desolate stretches of New Mexico or Arizona (if one has a bed full of gasoline carrying Jerry cans). But, is it equally suitable for northern Georgia, western North Carolina, or eastern Tennessee? Some trails are twisty and confined. The Great Smoky Mountains Park isn't always conducive to going around obstacles. With the domination of Jeeps and Tacomas on trails around this area, I'm concerned that that the Power Wagon, though capable, just carries too much bulk for anything smaller than fire roads or maintenance access roads.

Body armor!! Sliders and skid plate will get you in and over the tight areas. Though a Jeep rubicon and a PW do have a lot in common and share some of the same goodies, a Jeep can not replace a 2500 truck nor can a tank replace a RC car in regards to squeezing into tight places. The solution is to buy both!!

 

[corneileous]

Well, yes and no. I think you are referring to the fact they cannot void the warranty because of the presence of an aftermarket part. They can only deny warranty on a failure of a part if they can prove that the addition or replacement with an aftermarket part was a reasonable cause of the failure. That means if your radio stops working they can't deny the warranty because you have a Flowmaster muffler on it. The M-M act also specifically states they cannot require "branded" replacement parts. This means that can't deny the warranty because you didn't use a Mopar oil filter or Mopar engine oil. As long as the aftermarket brand of oil meets the requirements it should be fine.

The other part of the M-M act is that the warranty has to explicitly state in writing what the exceptions are. In this particular case of a Power Wagon and off-road, the warranty would have to specifically state what off-road driving event/actions/ evidence of use could cause the warranty to be denied, or at least reference an official document (such as the owner's manual).

So another words, it doesn’t matter whether it’s an aftermarket part or whatever, the Magnuson Moss act would still come into play that for whatever reason the manufacturer wants to void your warranty over, they still have to have proof that whatever it was you did/whatever parts you put on was the direct cause of them trying to void your warranty.


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[corneileous]

So to clarify, RAM will not flat out void your warranty if there are signs of off road use but they will document things the way they want to so down the road they can use the documentation to deny a claim. I recently had an experience where mud splashed into my engine bay and caused some irregular vibration which was remedied by cleaning the radiator/fan assembly. The RAM dealer documented it in a manner which will allow them to deny any warranty claims for any parts which might fail in my engine bay. When I presented them with RAMs claim that the Power Wagon can ford 30 inches of water, they responded with any damage from water will not be covered under warranty, even though the bottom of the engine bay and axles would be under water if you were to ford 30 inches of water. Also, when you go to the RAM dealer for service and they plug in their OBD2 reader, it will tell them how many times you have engaged 4hi, 4lo, locked your axles, disconnected your swaybar, or turned off traction control.

All this said, the truck is amazing off road and I love it. The warranty on my last rig was long expired so I just look at it that way.

I would think they can document whatever the hell they want too but it still doesn’t take away the fact that just because they documented you had water/mud sloshed up into your engine bay or whatever, and how many times you activated the features on your truck that if something were to go wrong down the road, they still… would have to prove that whatever you did was the direct cause of why whatever part or parts failed that needed to be taken care of under warranty. They may try to act like the mud puddle you hit too hard or too fast but, a good lawyer should help a Judge see right through that. I mean, you have a power wagon for crissakes. I realize that just like with a three-quarter ton diesel that a lot of people buy those without using them for what they were really intended for, that there’s people who buy power wagons that don’t take them out and bash them on the trail either but there are people that use that power wagon for which it was designed.


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[olyelr]

Great idea !
Maybe... It sounds like an amazing vehicle for Moab or desolate stretches of New Mexico or Arizona (if one has a bed full of gasoline carrying Jerry cans). But, is it equally suitable for northern Georgia, western North Carolina, or eastern Tennessee? Some trails are twisty and confined. The Great Smoky Mountains Park isn't always conducive to going around obstacles. With the domination of Jeeps and Tacomas on trails around this area, I'm concerned that that the Power Wagon, though capable, just carries too much bulk for anything smaller than fire roads or maintenance access roads.

If the jeeps and tacomas fit like throwing a hotdog down a hallway, then the pw will be fine. But if the trails are tight for the little guys, the pw will still do it, but most likely not without body damage. It is what it is.

 

[JamesgPW]

do you have photos of the engine bay after the muddy water ? did water go in a electric connector ? these trucks are driven offroad in all types of envirments with no trouble so your story isnt adding up to me unless it was some type of freak situation you encountered

I do. My wife filmed me driving through the muddy water so I’ll post a pic of that. I took a photo of the engine bay after Ram documented the “mud covering the engine bay”. However keep in mind this was several days later and after I had sprayed out the radiator/fan assembly on my own the morning after the trail. I also took a photo of Ram’s documentation. When I took it to the service department the service advisor made his statements to me about Ram not covering any damages from off road use. We disagreed and he had his shop foreman come talk to me. He told me the following things:

If the serpentine belt gets wet it can slip off the pulleys. The radiator/fan assembly area are susceptible to failures from muddy water. If either axle is submerged above the top of the diff housing in water, they can flood causing a failure. Any failures as a result of water or mud will not be covered under factory warranty.

None of those above statements are consistent with Ram’s advertisement of the Power Wagons water fording capabilities.

Below is a timeline followed by pics:

Drove through muddy water on a trail.

Drove home (2 hour drive) with no issues.

Next morning, with a cool engine bay, sprayed off radiator/fan area as well as a light spray down of the rest of the bay (avoiding electronics).

Sporadic, heavy vibration would occur lasting 15-30 seconds.

Called service department and made appointment.

Dropped truck in the morning with service advisor who needed to keep it for the day. We argued about signs of mud in the bay and the shop foreman spoke with me. Later that day, they advised the radiator/fan assembly had mud in it and needed cleaning but no parts had failed.

Picked up truck and was told by service advisor they have to document this to protect them from any future warranty claims. The vibrating has not occurred since.

All this said, I am not saying the PW is a lemon or discouraging the purchase of one. I love mine! The truck is extremely capable off road in stock form and comes with off road goodies most people spends thousands of dollars buying in the aftermarket, as I did with my last rig. All I am saying, is know that if you go off road and do stuff in snow/water/mud your warranty maybe at risk if that matters to you.

 

[Trailmaker]

I do. My wife filmed me driving through the muddy water so I’ll post a pic of that. I took a photo of the engine bay after Ram documented the “mud covering the engine bay”. However keep in mind this was several days later and after I had sprayed out the radiator/fan assembly on my own the morning after the trail. I also took a photo of Ram’s documentation. When I took it to the service department the service advisor made his statements to me about Ram not covering any damages from off road use. We disagreed and he had his shop foreman come talk to me. He told me the following things:

If the serpentine belt gets wet it can slip off the pulleys. The radiator/fan assembly area are susceptible to failures from muddy water. If either axle is submerged above the top of the diff housing in water, they can flood causing a failure. Any failures as a result of water or mud will not be covered under factory warranty.

None of those above statements are consistent with Ram’s advertisement of the Power Wagons water fording capabilities.

Below is a timeline followed by pics:

Drove through muddy water on a trail.

Drove home (2 hour drive) with no issues.

Next morning, with a cool engine bay, sprayed off radiator/fan area as well as a light spray down of the rest of the bay (avoiding electronics).

Sporadic, heavy vibration would occur last 15-30 seconds.

Called service department and made appointment.

Dropped truck in the morning with service advisor who needed to keep it for the day. We argued about signs of mud in the bay and the shop foreman spoke with me. Later that day, they advised the radiator/fan assembly had mud in it and needed cleaning but no parts had failed.

Picked up truck and was told by service advisor they have to document this to protect them from any future warranty claims. The vibrating has not occurred since.

All this said, I am not saying the PW is a lemon or discouraging the purchase of one. I love mine! The truck is extremely capable off road in stock form and comes with off road goodies most people spends thousands of dollars buying in the aftermarket, as I did with my last rig. All I am saying, is know that if you go off road and do stuff in snow/water/mud your warranty maybe at risk if that matters to you.

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Well dang, I took off my gravel guard, so I suppose I should drive slower through muddy water. I did had a cross bar under my winch that started the frame work for my front skid.

 

[JamesgPW]

Great idea !
Maybe... It sounds like an amazing vehicle for Moab or desolate stretches of New Mexico or Arizona (if one has a bed full of gasoline carrying Jerry cans). But, is it equally suitable for northern Georgia, western North Carolina, or eastern Tennessee? Some trails are twisty and confined. The Great Smoky Mountains Park isn't always conducive to going around obstacles. With the domination of Jeeps and Tacomas on trails around this area, I'm concerned that that the Power Wagon, though capable, just carries too much bulk for anything smaller than fire roads or maintenance access roads.

This was a very tight area which had massive ruts causing max articulation in my axles. My stock Power Wagon it did it with no problem. I think most IFS rigs with no front locker would have gotten stuck or had to seriously stress the drivetrain to push through.

 

[Rick Ram-jet]

jamespw, was the mud pic taken in Holcomb Valley/Big Bear?
Still has lots of mud up there!

 

[JamesgPW]

jamespw, was the mud pic taken in Holcomb Valley/Big Bear?
Still has lots of mud up there!

Yes, 2N02 Pioneer Town to Big Bear Trail going up the southern side of the mountain to Baldwin Lake. It had rained the night before.

 

[crazy jerry]

I do. My wife filmed me driving through the muddy water so I’ll post a pic of that. I took a photo of the engine bay after Ram documented the “mud covering the engine bay”. However keep in mind this was several days later and after I had sprayed out the radiator/fan assembly on my own the morning after the trail. I also took a photo of Ram’s documentation. When I took it to the service department the service advisor made his statements to me about Ram not covering any damages from off road use. We disagreed and he had his shop foreman come talk to me. He told me the following things:

If the serpentine belt gets wet it can slip off the pulleys. The radiator/fan assembly area are susceptible to failures from muddy water. If either axle is submerged above the top of the diff housing in water, they can flood causing a failure. Any failures as a result of water or mud will not be covered under factory warranty.

None of those above statements are consistent with Ram’s advertisement of the Power Wagons water fording capabilities.

Below is a timeline followed by pics:

Drove through muddy water on a trail.

Drove home (2 hour drive) with no issues.

Next morning, with a cool engine bay, sprayed off radiator/fan area as well as a light spray down of the rest of the bay (avoiding electronics).

Sporadic, heavy vibration would occur lasting 15-30 seconds.

Called service department and made appointment.

Dropped truck in the morning with service advisor who needed to keep it for the day. We argued about signs of mud in the bay and the shop foreman spoke with me. Later that day, they advised the radiator/fan assembly had mud in it and needed cleaning but no parts had failed.

Picked up truck and was told by service advisor they have to document this to protect them from any future warranty claims. The vibrating has not occurred since.

All this said, I am not saying the PW is a lemon or discouraging the purchase of one. I love mine! The truck is extremely capable off road in stock form and comes with off road goodies most people spends thousands of dollars buying in the aftermarket, as I did with my last rig. All I am saying, is know that if you go off road and do stuff in snow/water/mud your warranty maybe at risk if that matters to you.

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im quit sure you probly just got water in one of the electric connectors maybe. the connectors are usually sealed well but maybe one isnt pushed on all the way. check the hose clamps on the intake tube as water could get in there if theyre loose and put the engine in a panic. since the engine ran fine after the water hole but not after you sprayed it off, check all connectors up top as thats the most logical based on your account of events.

havent done it on my pw yet but on my daily car i took apart every electric connector to apply grease and be sure they were fully connected. a new truck isnt immune from loose bolts, halfed pushed on connectors, crooked steering wheels etc

 

[JamesgPW]

im quit sure you probly just got water in one of the electric connectors maybe. the connectors are usually sealed well but maybe one isnt pushed on all the way. check the hose clamps on the intake tube as water could get in there if theyre loose and put the engine in a panic. since the engine ran fine after the water hole but not after you sprayed it off, check all connectors up top as thats the most logical based on your account of events.

havent done it on my pw yet but on my daily car i took apart every electric connector to apply grease and be sure they were fully connected. a new truck isnt immune from loose bolts, halfed pushed on connectors, crooked steering wheels etc

While this might be the case, it is still upsetting to see the Ram Dealer documenting that my engine bay was filled with mud when it wasn't, “FOUND MUD ALL INSIDE ENGINE COMPARTMENT.” As well as tell me they are going to document to protect themselves from future warranty claims.

 

[Breaker Alex]

While this might be the case, it is still upsetting to see the Ram Dealer documenting that my engine bay was filled with mud when it wasn't, “FOUND MUD ALL INSIDE ENGINE COMPARTMENT.” As well as tell me they are going to document to protect themselves from future warranty claims.

They did the same thing with me.
Marked the truck as "highly modified" because of the 37" tires even thought the issue was with original tires.

I will not take truck back to that dealer.

I'm with you all the way.