Recharge Air Condition

[scott lass 18]

Scott you're getting confusing again,slow down and proof read what you've wrote before posting it.Your last few posts have been nothing but a nightmare to make heads or tails of,and at 68 years of age,you should be able to write them intelligently. Most of your posts if I can't read the first line,i just bypass what you've wrote and go to the next post,and I think i'm not the only guy doing that,lol. I think you have a lot to offer,but if it's not read-able it's not doing anybody any good

oh fast minds don't think slow ! I forgot beginners are out there !

 

[misfit77]

Wholly cow! The Grammer police has more grammatical errors than I care to count.


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[David F]

My 2003 still blows cold air. no problems, no service.

 

[MRFREEZE57]

The system uses an expansion valve mounted at the firewall that is replaceable from the outside but not sure if the 134a one would fit or you would even need to. The oil in the system is compatible with 134a even though it's specific for 1234YF. It should be possible for someone with refrigeration experience to charge the system with 134a but amount won't be what's on the sticker and a backyard mechanic would probably overcharge the crap out of the system.

if it does have a TXV, it may have an adjustment for superheat, if not it may cause flood back to the compressor. if it can be adjusted one may be able to set it to the new flavor of gas, I have done very lettle on automotive systems, onec on a ford changed an evap for a buddy but it only had a restrictor orafice.

 

[Alweeja]

Your 2014 most likely uses R1234yf which requires a different machine. R1234yf uses different fittings as well.

If your A/C is working fine you don’t need to recharge it, it’s not a maintenance item.

As well I strongly discourage trying to top up a system yourself. It is extremely easy to overcharge your system and cause even further damage. I wouldn’t trust the gauges on those DIY cans.

The only way to know if the system is properly charged is to evacuate it with an A/C machine and weigh what comes out. Pressure can give you a clue but I’ve seen plenty of systems with good pressure but we’re almost empty.

The proper way is to evacuate the system then put it under vacuum to remove any moisture. If you don’t vacuum the system you can end up with moisture that can rust the system from the inside out. Then fill the system. This can be done with just manifold gauges and a vacuum pump. The machines just make it a lot easier.

I know lots of people use the DIY cans and it works ok for them, but it’s not the right way and I’ve seen a lot of horror stories from people who thought they could do it themselves.

 

[Alweeja]

Good to know that if the AC is working Properly, there is not a Re-charge ever needed

 

[Sherman Bird]

Your 2014 most likely uses R1234yf which requires a different machine. R1234yf uses different fittings as well.

If your A/C is working fine you don’t need to recharge it, it’s not a maintenance item.

As well I strongly discourage trying to top up a system yourself. It is extremely easy to overcharge your system and cause even further damage. I wouldn’t trust the gauges on those DIY cans.

The only way to know if the system is properly charged is to evacuate it with an A/C machine and weigh what comes out. Pressure can give you a clue but I’ve seen plenty of systems with good pressure but we’re almost empty.

The proper way is to evacuate the system then put it under vacuum to remove any moisture. If you don’t vacuum the system you can end up with moisture that can rust the system from the inside out. Then fill the system. This can be done with just manifold gauges and a vacuum pump. The machines just make it a lot easier.

I know lots of people use the DIY cans and it works ok for them, but it’s not the right way and I’ve seen a lot of horror stories from people who thought they could do it themselves.

The reason I discourage putting refrigerant ("Freon" is a registered trademark of the DuPont Corp.) in a system with one of those "kits" you buy at the corner AutoZone is because you have no way to insure that you do not accidentally ingest a tiny amount of air into the system without a charging station machine. That miniscule amount of air forms acid that circulates the system, pitting the aluminum parts... inevitably causing a leak. Generally in the evaporator core and typically over a year or 2 timewise. That's just one problem.... Next is that when refrigerant charge goes low, the lubrication oil in the system migrates into the evaporator core and will not return to the compressor in many systems without using vacuum recovery function of the machine and adding the oil to the compressor itself. The next reason is that you have no way to make sure of the exact amount of refrigerant charges into the system, and if it isn't just right, oil goes to the evaporator core! Keep in mind also, that if refrigerant has been leaking out, how do you know how much a/c oil to put in, if you do at all?

To the haters who will poopoo the points I make with comments about how they used one of those kits and the a/c blew ice cold afterwards..... For how long? 1 year? 2 years? Did you fix the leak? How were things going with your a/c after say, 5 years?

 

[Sherman Bird]

Thanks....I was looking in all of my manuals....great I have the new stuff that I can't buy in a can.

It takes R134a

 

[Rader]

actually it is quite common for a tech to call it freon, as a 38 year retired commercial refrigeration tech you will hear it called different names, refrigerant, freon, gas, etc. as others said, if it is working ok, leave it alone, if low on gas you need to find the leak. I had never heard of 1234YF until buying the Ram. the stuff is very expensive, if I were to have to do a recharge, 134A has similar evaporating temps in the operating range on the PT chart, I would try the less expensive 134A and see how it worked or mayben get a restrictor from one that specs 134A

The 1234YF filled compressor on my 2016 JK self destructed and lost all refrigerant. I replaced it with a JY used but very low miles compressor for less than $100, refilled with Walmart $5 a can 134A. Worked like a charm, filling the pressures don't balance exactly the same but now it on it's third season with 134 and still ice cold.

One note....you need inexpensive 1234 to 134 adapters for the ports, plenty of them can be found on Ebay

 

[misfit77]

The reason I discourage putting refrigerant ("Freon" is a registered trademark of the DuPont Corp.) in a system with one of those "kits" you buy at the corner AutoZone is because you have no way to insure that you do not accidentally ingest a tiny amount of air into the system without a charging station machine. That miniscule amount of air forms acid that circulates the system, pitting the aluminum parts... inevitably causing a leak. Generally in the evaporator core and typically over a year or 2 timewise. That's just one problem.... Next is that when refrigerant charge goes low, the lubrication oil in the system migrates into the evaporator core and will not return to the compressor in many systems without using vacuum recovery function of the machine and adding the oil to the compressor itself. The next reason is that you have no way to make sure of the exact amount of refrigerant charges into the system, and if it isn't just right, oil goes to the evaporator core! Keep in mind also, that if refrigerant has been leaking out, how do you know how much a/c oil to put in, if you do at all?

To the haters who will poopoo the points I make with comments about how they used one of those kits and the a/c blew ice cold afterwards..... For how long? 1 year? 2 years? Did you fix the leak? How were things going with your a/c after say, 5 years?

My G35 has 186k miles...been topping off with a can since 90k. Nothing broken yet. Oddly did not top off last year. Maybe this year. I have a manifold and vacuum, but im too lazy.

My 96 xj was topped off with can had it till 185k.

Same for 96 zj, topped it off twice a year. Sold it at 200k+ miles.

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[Tach_tech]

My G35 has 186k miles...been topping off with a can since 90k. Nothing broken yet. Oddly did not top off last year. Maybe this year. I have a manifold and vacuum, but im too lazy.

My 96 xj was topped off with can had it till 185k.

Same for 96 zj, topped it off twice a year. Sold it at 200k+ miles.

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The biggest issue with just doing that is you never know if your system is actually properly charged. Chances are it’s either under or overcharged slightly.

Obviously your vehicles have A/C leaks if they’re failing that often. As the refrigerant leaks out so does the oil in the system. If it gets to low on oil you run the risk of blowing up the compressor then the whole system is trashed. You’ve been lucky so far, and lots of people are perfectly ok taking the risk just to save money now. Nothing wrong with that, just something I’d never do or personally recommend. More often then not people cause issues trying to just top it off, mainly because they have no idea what they’re doing or how an a/c system works. A lot of those cans have stop leaks as well which is a recipe for clogging the system.

 

[Udy2554]

I’ve been an HVAC tech(residential) for almost 30 years! The only thing I see to be maintained by the layman would be keeping the condenser and evaporate coils clean! Inspecting serpentine belts too!

Regularly adding refrigerant can keep you going, but if it’s needed, there is a bigger problem(leak) somewhere(fittings, seals, etc)! Also as stated by Tach_tech, you may introduce contaminants and non-condensables(air/moisture) that will wreak havoc on expensive components!

If all is well, leave it be! If there is a failure, it’ll more than likely be cheaper to find the leak and get it fixed...professionally!

 

[JS4024]

If it’s working fine, leave it alone...

 

[Gixxer750]

Greetings,
Hope all is well with you & family. Anybody recharge the A/C other than a Ram dealer? I own a 2014 and my mechanic told me Friday he can’t recharge the A/C because Ram takes a special tool (?) and he does not carry it. My A/C is working fine / cold, just wanted to recharge it as routine maintenance. I use it often.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

Yes. Ive done the R134a, and the yf1234. But I pooped a pine on the yf 1234 and let it "go" and added about an oz of oil, and charged it with R134a. About 12oz and was blowing good and cold. Still is

 

[Sherman Bird]

"Freon" is actually a trade name much like "Xerox" is refered to as photocopy and not specific to any one banned refrigerant.
There is a "Freon 134a" which is a Hydrofluorocarbons (HFC) refrigerant made by The Chemours Company which is a spin off from DuPont who originally developed the refrigerant with General Motors. DuPont originally sold 134a under the name of Suva
The 1234YF refrigerant is a Hydrofluoroolefins (HFO) categorized as having zero ozone depletion potential (ODP) and low global warming potential (GWP). The banned refrigerants are Chloroflurocarbons (CFC) and Hydrochloroflurocarbons. (HCFC). Eventually even HFCs will start to be phased out unless you live in California because they're starting to cram that down your throats now.

"Alternator" was a registered trademark of Chrylser Corp. once upon a time. When I worked for GM, we were admonished strictly to refer to the A/C generator unit as a "Delcotron"!

 

[Sherman Bird]

This thread just reminded me. I'm still running Winter air in my tires. I need to switch over to the summer air now. Such a pain having to do all 6 tires plus the spare.
Thanks guys!

And remember to make sure it is country sunshine air, not that gritty city air!

 

[Sherman Bird]

What are you hoping to gain by getting it recharged? If your system is full, they’re going to evacuate what’s in your system then recharge it with the same refrigerant that was evacuated.

Anytime an A/C system is evacuated the refrigerant is stored in the source tank to be reused. You won’t be getting new refrigerant if that’s what you’re after.

If you have access to a probe thermometer. Measure the outlet temperature of the air with the system on max A/C with recirc on. Depending on ambient temp if you measure around 50F it’s working normally and there will be nothing to be gained by a recharge.

By spending money, it is possible a person is psyched into believing they accomplished something positive for the car and thwarted the inevitable. The same rationale existed and likely still does across the board. My memories of a pissed off customer ranting and throwing a tantrum on the service aisle about something that went wrong with their new Suburban e.g., "I paid 45 thousand dollars for that Suburban! And it never should break like that!"..... The erroneous thinking here is the unrealistic expecation that spending money cures an age old ill..... Mechanical things break! They always have and always will. That's why new cars have warranties. Personally, since a vehicle is a depreciating asset, I have no problem spending large sums of money on my car(s) when something goes wrong, and keeping the car 20 years. I'm at year 18 on one of my cars and year 13 on another. Whem I acquired my 18 year old Sequoia, the customer balked at spending 3 grand on needed repairs. I bought the thing for 1/3 book value factoring the needed repairs, one item was both cat converters. I performed the repairs, and have enjoyed it ever since.... and have had to do several other repairs too. This customer bought a 1 year old Sequoia for 42 grand......Doing long term math tells me he likey spent north of 60 g's when one factors in value loss, interest on the loan, etc.... to avoid spending 3 grand on this one. He has approached me 3 times trying to buy it back.... no go.

My A/C machine runs the refrigerant through a filter to remove contaminants such as micro particles of inner hoses or microspoic metal from other components. Interestingly, when I change out my vacuum pump oil, it is dark gray and has solid particulate in it....