Shocking truth ZF8 fluid

[Firebird]

My trans will stay at 168 degrees for hours on end, pulling 9000 pounds.

 

[Different Drummer]

My trans will stay at 168 degrees for hours on end, pulling 9000 pounds.

Yes, for some reason the HD RAM's with the ZF 8 speed seem to run quite a bit cooler than the 1500's. Possibly because of different temperature parameters used in whatever thermal management system exists on the HD? On another thread an owner posted a photo of the Transmission oil cooler by pass block, so we know that is in use on the HD.. It could be set at a lower Temp. than the 1500 to allow fluid to flow to the cooler in front of the radiator. A part number comparison probably could confirm or defeat that theory. Until someone looks I for one cannot say whether or not it has the Fluid to fluid heater on the transmission like the 1500's. If I had to guess I would suspect not as they are not under the gun for efficiency like in the 1500.

 

[star_deceiver]

Random trip down the looking glass of the Internet... found the English version.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/lol-lubricants/lol-en/lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf

 

[Burla]

travis found this, as you can see :zf: fluid acts like generic fluid in the cold, which means there just is not enough pao base to be beneficial.

 

[Eeyor16]

ditto thread in 4 gen

So when you look at stat sheets it reveals the characteristics of the base oils. And the stat sheets reveal that zf8 fluid is not what we thought, as in pao base oils. It seams to be in line with maxlife multi use instead of true performance like redline or amsoil. The issue is sense the transmissions run hot, they really do need pao base oils for longevity, and according to the stat sheet, the zf8 fluid seams to similar to mineral oils in performance to be real pao fluid. So for guys with zf8, I say do some research when making a choice on transmission service. The only thing in common zf fluid has with the real pao based oils is the price tag, you guys are being hosed.

ZF Fluid

Viscosity at 100°C 5.6
Pour point -42°C

Maxlife multi-

Viscosity at 100°C 5.9
Pour Point -42c
Add a impressive VI at 163
Very decent fluid.

Redline d6-

Vis @ 100°C, CSt 6.3
Pour Point, °C -60
VI 163

Amsoil Multi

Vis @ 100, 6.3
Pour point, -65c
VI, 159

You see below second line, pao based oils do perform well in hot and cold, perfect for zf transmission. When you look at continual use, that is the nature of the base oil, the other parts of the graph are achieved with additives such as vii's that are very temporary in service. So when they say lifetime fluid, a real pao is possibly that, but as you can plainly see, mineral oil is not when you consider the temp the zf transmission operates at. Do what you will with this info, but at a minimum lower the interval if you use zf fluid because it is not what we have thought it was in the past. These stat sheets have been illusive, can't find one for mopar fluid either, but I bet it is the same. Funny fact because of the temp a zf operates at, and the fluid specs, it makes more sense to change it more often then an rfe.

View attachment 453611

Numbers don’t lie. But I’m wondering. I just did an oil and pan/filter change. Used the Amsoil. Trans shifting shady AF now. Bit concerned. Maybe should have used the rip off ZF fluid

 

[Burla]

Or the cheap maxlife? This is the first report of amsoil having issues, but I do not doubt you at all, just saying so far this is the first. What is going on with it? Have you tried to verify the fluid level?

 

[Wild one]

Numbers don’t lie. But I’m wondering. I just did an oil and pan/filter change. Used the Amsoil. Trans shifting shady AF now. Bit concerned. Maybe should have used the rip off ZF fluid

Some guys have reported issues with Amsoil and Redline in the 8 speed,but so far i haven't heard of anybody having issues with Valvolene's Maxlife. If you have issues,i'd try swapping out the Amsoil for Maxlife,or if you're feeling rich the ZF 8/9 speed fluid.
But before you do that,maybe re-check the fluid level first,as the 8 speed is very picky about fluid levels.
These are the factory instructions that come with a brand new 8 speed from the dealer,and the very first paragraph is important,you have to jack the rear tires a fair ways in the air to get the transmissions pan rail level.

 

[Eeyor16]

Some guys have reported issues with Amsoil and Redline in the 8 speed,but so far i haven't heard of anybody having issues with Valvolene's Maxlife. If you have issues,i'd try swapping out the Amsoil for Maxlife,or if you're feeling rich the ZF 8/9 speed fluid.
But before you do that,maybe re-check the fluid level first,as the 8 speed is very picky about fluid levels.
These are the factory instructions that come with a brand new 8 speed from the dealer,and the very first paragraph is important,you have to jack the rear tires a fair ways in the air to get the transmissions pan rail level.

Awesome. Thank you. I will check that out today. Have you ever had to do the Quick learn on the transmission using alphaobd to get it adjust to the fluid? Just a stab in the dark there

 

[Wild one]

Awesome. Thank you. I will check that out today. Have you ever had to do the Quick learn on the transmission using alphaobd to get it adjust to the fluid? Just a stab in the dark there

I've probably changed the fluid about a 1/2 dozen times on the truck,and once on the wifes Challenger,and have never had to use AlphaOBD afterwards.Should be no reason to,all you're doing is a fluid and filter swap,you're not putting a new transmission in the truck,lol. I'd start by jacking the truck up so the rear tires are probably 8 or 9" off the ground and rechecking the fluid level,and go from there.The 8 speeds do not like even being a 1/2 quart down on fluid,and i'm more inclined to think your fluid level is low,more then the amsoil fluid causing your issues

 

[Eeyor16]

I've probably changed the fluid about a 1/2 dozen times on the truck,and once on the wifes Challenger,and have never had to use AlphaOBD afterwards.Should be no reason to,all you're doing is a fluid and filter swap,you're not putting a new transmission in the truck,lol. I'd start by jacking the truck up so the rear tires are probably 8 or 9" off the ground and rechecking the fluid level,and go from there.The 8 speeds do not like even being a 1/2 quart down on fluid,and i'm more inclined to think your fluid level is low,more then the amsoil fluid causing your issues

I sure hope so. Thank you for the guidance. Greatly appreciated

 

[Stever68]

Curious if anyone has used an aftermarket pan and filter? The Mopar OE is north of $400, while aftermarket is around half that. Also planning on switching to Amsoil fluid as well.

Thanks in advance

 

[Wild one]

Curious if anyone has used an aftermarket pan and filter? The Mopar OE is north of $400, while aftermarket is around half that. Also planning on switching to Amsoil fluid as well.

Thanks in advance

Lots of guys are running the PPE pan,it holds approximately 2 quarts more fluid then the stock pan,and has a replacable filter.Avoid Amzoil or Redline fluids in the 8 speed,neither fluid has a great rep in the 8 speed,Valvolene Maxlife has a better rep ,if you don't want to use the gold plated 8/9 speed fluid.

2010-2022 w/ ZF-8 Speed Heavy-Duty Cast Aluminum Transmission Pan

Transmission Pan for ZF 8-Speed - Heavy-Duty Cast Aluminum Specifically designed for the Jeep Grand Cherokee, PPE has engineered an exclusive removable and replaceable oil filter. That means unlike the factory part, there’s no n

ppepower.com

 

[Wild one]

Curious if anyone has used an aftermarket pan and filter? The Mopar OE is north of $400, while aftermarket is around half that. Also planning on switching to Amsoil fluid as well.

Thanks in advance

This is the deep version Steve,i gave you the link to the shallow one by mistake.Click on the "details" part of the link for the specs on the pan

2014-2022 w/ZF-8 Speed Transmission Heavy-Duty Cast Aluminum Deep Transmission Pan

Transmission Pan - Heavy-Duty Cast Aluminum - 8HP70/8HP75 Features:Cast-aluminum construction Increased heat dissipation Reduced oil temperatures Increased fluid capacity Stainless steel drain plug Includes replaceable filter 1/8 NPT tempe

ppepower.com

 

[DILLIGAF]

Curious if anyone has used an aftermarket pan and filter?

PPE pan and Valvoline MaxLife

 

[Chukbacca]

Lots of guys are running the PPE pan,it holds approximately 2 quarts more fluid then the stock pan,and has a replacable filter.

I'm new to Dodge pickups, I’m curious if anyone has seen/heard of the differences between the different pans. Both the PPE and B&M are north of $300 whereas the Dorman is around $200.

Thanks in advance for being kind in your replies!

 

[dork17]

I have a zf8 and I recently had a small leak in my oil cooler line. It's since been fixed, but I plan on topping the fluid back up. I'm estimating it's less than a liter lost.

The D6 fluid by redline is readily available to me, does anyone know if it's an issue to add the D6 fluid to the existing OEM transmission fluid?

 

[Wild one]

I'm new to Dodge pickups, I’m curious if anyone has seen/heard of the differences between the different pans. Both the PPE and B&M are north of $300 whereas the Dorman is around $200.

Thanks in advance for being kind in your replies!

Can't speak for the B&M or Dorman pans,but the PPE pan is a heavy duty aluminium pan that holds more fluid,and has a replacable filter.

 

[Ramfanski]

I know that the whole idea of lifetime transmission fluid seems rather shady, and that zf actually recommends that it is changed at a certain number of miles, but I am also wondering whether transmissions fail in the new 8 speeds?

I’m not trying to troll or discount anybody’s extra effort to change the fluid, but I don’t see too many people saying they’re transmissions fail and I really doubt the vast majority of people are changing the fluid if ram tells them not to. It’s an expensive endeavor.

I do not really think I will change my fluid myself, but most likely will have it changed by the dealership for 800$. I know it’s a lot, but I have a long extended warranty so I’m kinda locked in on that. I’m not sure when as I don’t tow a bunch or hot rod often, but I’ll probably follow the zf recommendations. Maybe I won’t since I have the warranty…. Who knows. I have less than 20 k now so I’ll think on it.

All that typing for one question. Has it really been an issue with transmissions going out? I just don’t see a lot of it on the forums I’m on like I see the manifolds and camshaft issues.

 

[Wild one]

I know that the whole idea of lifetime transmission fluid seems rather shady, and that zf actually recommends that it is changed at a certain number of miles, but I am also wondering whether transmissions fail in the new 8 speeds?

I’m not trying to troll or discount anybody’s extra effort to change the fluid, but I don’t see too many people saying they’re transmissions fail and I really doubt the vast majority of people are changing the fluid if ram tells them not to. It’s an expensive endeavor.

I do not really think I will change my fluid myself, but most likely will have it changed by the dealership for 800$. I know it’s a lot, but I have a long extended warranty so I’m kinda locked in on that. I’m not sure when as I don’t tow a bunch or hot rod often, but I’ll probably follow the zf recommendations. Maybe I won’t since I have the warranty…. Who knows. I have less than 20 k now so I’ll think on it.

All that typing for one question. Has it really been an issue with transmissions going out? I just don’t see a lot of it on the forums I’m on like I see the manifolds and camshaft issues.

The ZF is a pretty robust transmission,but that doesn't mean it's perfect though. It still benefits from proper maintence.
I've burned up one 8 speed in my truck,but there were other issues,like the fact the transmission is rated to 516 lb-ft at the crank,and my truck puts down 572 lb-ft at the tires,and we kept leaning on the transmission,until it basically said fluck-you,lol. Everytime we leaned on the tranny the truck got quicker,up till it's breaking point.
Now i change fluid in it yearly,as it's cheaper to keep new fluid in it,then it is to buy a brand new 8 speed,they aren't exactly cheap from the dealer

 

[Ramfanski]

The ZF is a pretty robust transmission,but that doesn't mean it's perfect though. It still benefits from proper maintence.
I've burned up one 8 speed in my truck,but there were other issues,like the fact the transmission is rated to 516 lb-ft at the crank,and my truck puts down 572 lb-ft at the tires,and we kept leaning on the transmission,until it basically said fluck-you,lol. Everytime we leaned on the tranny the truck got quicker,up till it's breaking point.
Now i change fluid in it yearly,as it's cheaper to keep new fluid in it,then it is to buy a brand new 8 speed,they aren't exactly cheap from the dealer

You sound like a fun guy to hang around with. I grew up in the country and hung out with some truck pulling maniacs for a few years. I even worked for one of them in their mechanic shop for a couple of years. Not wrenching, but doing everything else…. You remind me of those guys. Keep racing!