Shocking info ZF Fluids...

[Dannyn_01]

If the magnet issue bothers you,buy yourself some Neodyninium magnets and JB Weld them to the pan.
Not sure how much temp the pan will take out of your 8HP45,but on my 8HP70 i figure it pulled a good 5 degrees out of it's operating temp,and my buddy on his lifted with 35's 4X4 figures it took 10 degrees out of his 8 speeds operating temp.The pan is finned internally and externally,and the fins operate like heat sinks to absorb heat and the airflow under the truck then pulls the heat out of the finned heat sinks.Theres kits out now that defeat the heater on the trucks .FYI the cars use the same exact 8 speed and they don't have the heater assembly,only the trucks do,and it's strictly added to meet the gas milege specs advertised for the trucks.The 8HP70 in my wifes 2019 6.4 Challenger hardly gets over 160F if you're driving it easy

Are either your truck, or your buddy’s truck a 5.7? Still trying to figure out if the pan fits over the exhaust

 

[Wild one]

Are either your truck, or your buddy’s truck a 5.7? Still trying to figure out if the pan fits over the exhaust

Both are 5.7's,but both are running long tube headers.There are a few guys who've put the PPE pan on a stock truck with the stock cross over and say the pan clears,to tell you the truth,i've never seen anybody say the pan won't clear the stock cross-over on a 5.7.Maybe there are some instances where the pan hasn't cleared,but i've never seen anybody post it ,either on here or the high performance facebook pages.
A tip for you,would be to wrap the cross over pipe with header wrap where it crosses under the pan,it'll help keep the pan from absorbing exhaust heat if you're stuck in barely moving rush hour traffic on a hot day.

 

[Wild one]

You are correct. I am aware of the difference in orientation between car and truck and just let it slip by. No excuse, just total oversight on my part. Happens I guess, I think they call it a senior moment and it applies in my case.
I already have a copy of the directions you posted. You might recall, it was me who took them with me to a Transmission shop and they told me because of my request for them to adhere closely to the procedure they did not want my business.
Still have to get to the bottom of the fluid question.

I got ya,i'd forgot you were the guy taking the instructions to your local tranny shop.I swear by the factory fluid,but Burla's research is very eye opening and intriguing.I know a couple of the high end tuners claimed they seen slip on a high power build using aftermarket fluids,but i've never actually seen them state which fluid it was,i'm assuming it was the Maxlife,as it was one of the first aftermarket ZF fluids to hit the market.Whether they've seem slip with Redline or Amsoil's fluids i can't really comment on.

 

[Hemi395]

So.....they put a heater on the 8 speeds that are most likely going to be towing or hauling loads....

For a fraction of a percent fuel economy.

Makes sense....

 

[Dannyn_01]

So.....they put a heater on the 8 speeds that are most likely going to be towing or hauling loads....

For a fraction of a percent fuel economy.

Makes sense....

Check out this thread... not sure what to take from it

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/8hp70-transmission-heater-thermal-bypass-valve.106865/

 

[Wild one]

So.....they put a heater on the 8 speeds that are most likely going to be towing or hauling loads....

For a fraction of a percent fuel economy.

Makes sense....

You have to factor that small percentage into the number of trucks built and sold,as far as the epa is concerned,lol

 

[Burla]

Well, these are the same people who put the same transmission in a Cummins as they did a mini van.

 

[Tim Garceau]

Finally confident after my tail end is ripping both tires out of corners/stoplights that this combo has no slip issues on an aggressive trans shift tune(6500 rpm) with minimal torque management. 105k miles and 15k on the new fluid has never performed better, but it does have a few quarts of the magic potion from the factory left in it. Next spring the heater goes to keep temps off of being level with the coolant.

 

[Different Drummer]

Finally confident after my tail end is ripping both tires out of corners/stoplights that this combo has no slip issues on an aggressive trans shift tune(6500 rpm) with minimal torque management. 105k miles and 15k on the new fluid has never performed better, but it does have a few quarts of the magic potion from the factory left in it. Next spring the heater goes to keep temps off of being level with the coolant.

View attachment 229823

I guess I am confused by the Pic. Did you mix the Amsoil and the Valvoline 50/50?
Do you run the PPE pan?
Temps level with the coolant? Interesting, my engine oil and engine coolants temps are very often the same or very close. My transmission Temp. is usually 10 to 18 degrees cooler than Engine coolant. The two numbers I see the most on Trans. Temp are 181* and 183* under normal use.

 

[Tim Garceau]

I guess I am confused by the Pic. Did you mix the Amsoil and the Valvoline 50/50?
Do you run the PPE pan?
Temps level with the coolant? Interesting, my engine oil and engine coolants temps are very often the same or very close. My transmission Temp. is usually 10 to 18 degrees cooler than Engine coolant. The two numbers I see the most on Trans. Temp are 181* and 183* under normal use.

$40 eBay pan, sorry I run a 180 degree thermostat. Amsoil’s million mile proprietary additive package with Valvoline to keep cost down. Also had a left over half quart of transfer case SS red cap I tossed in just for S&Gs.

Optimal operating temps are 185 coolant/trans while oil hovers around 210 Fahrenheit during hot summer.

Winter is a little cooler.

 

[Different Drummer]

$40 eBay pan, sorry I run a 180 degree thermostat. Amsoil’s million mile proprietary additive package with Valvoline to keep cost down. Also had a left over half quart of transfer case SS red cap I tossed in just for S&Gs.

Optimal operating temps are 185 coolant/trans while oil hovers around 210 Fahrenheit.

My Bad, I looked right past the pan sitting under the oil! Makes sense on the Temps. My coolant Temp. with stock thermostat runs hotter than yours with the 180* thermostat. Even with the hotter engine coolant though, my Trans. Temp. stays 181* - 183* for the most part. If it is shifting a lot it will take an excursion to 188*-190*.
What I found interesting in the video was their casual comment about the Trans. running at 120* C . Thats crazy!!
Sorry, but I am still confused on what you are doing with the transmission oil. I am not real familiar with the Amsoil products. I see Amsoil containers with blue tops that say Automatic transmission fluid on them, one bottle with red top that also appears to say automatic transmission fluid on it. And the Valvoline Maxlife. Must be the additive package you reference is in the Amsoil blue cap and not a stand alone addition. The red cap is what you refer to as the transfer case fluid?
Leaving the red top out of the equation as you just happen to have it left over, normally you add the blue top Amsoil to the Valvoline in an effort to get the additives from Amsoil in the mix.
Think I got it now!! LOL

 

[Kukailimoku]

Whoa. These fluid threads are worse than the threads on Boardgame Geek discussing rule book interpretation of Advance and Decline of the Third ***** game...

 

[tfeni52355]

Are either your truck, or your buddy’s truck a 5.7? Still trying to figure out if the pan fits over the exhaust

The pan fits. Pulled this from a thread in the Engine/Performance Section. 2013 with 8 Speed.

 

[Dannyn_01]

The pan fits. Pulled this from a thread in the Engine/Performance Section. 2013 with 8 Speed.

Beautiful. Thanks!

 

[Wild one]

$40 eBay pan, sorry I run a 180 degree thermostat. Amsoil’s million mile proprietary additive package with Valvoline to keep cost down. Also had a left over half quart of transfer case SS red cap I tossed in just for S&Gs.

Optimal operating temps are 185 coolant/trans while oil hovers around 210 Fahrenheit during hot summer.

Winter is a little cooler.

View attachment 229845

Looks like you need to find a gas station soon Tim,lol. I'm also curious are you mixing all 3 tranny fluids together??

 

[Hemi1978]

So spec sheets haven't been easy to find on zf fluids or mopar fluids, but I found one on zf 8 lifeguard which is likely the same as mopar fluid, and the stat sheet suggests it is no better then generic trans fluid. Additives aside, someone may decide to do uoa's, and in fact if anyone has any uoa's/voa's on any of these fluids please post them here. So as far as base oil goes, the real pao's of redline d6 and amsoil multi use offer that ZF transmission much better protection in the extremes of cold and hot.

If stats mean anything it suggests the specialized zf fluid is a hoax, not real traditional pao performance in the extremes. It is very weird as Europe and Germany are supposed to have rules against this, but I don't know the minutia or reasoning behind it, I just know stat sheets don't lie, but manufacturers do from time to time. This is an important thing to consider because the ZF operates at such high temps, every owner of a ZF should consider this info when choosing a fluid. We need additive numbers as well for the complete picture.

ZF Fluid

Viscosity at 100°C 5.6
Pour point -42°C

Maxlife multi-

Viscosity at 100°C 5.9
Pour Point -42c
Add a impressive VI at 163
Very decent fluid.

Redline d6-

Vis @ 100°C, CSt 6.3
Pour Point, °C -60
VI 163

Amsoil Multi

Vis @ 100, 6.3
Pour point, -65c
VI, 159

There is a youtube video which goes into this subject (in great detail... and length)... if you skip to section 2 fluids he includes a chart showing a bunch of fluids with specs and has the specs for the equivalent shell product. Pretty interesting...

 

[Different Drummer]

I watched this about a week ago. Tedious but there is a lot of Info that can be ferreted from the video. In fact I think this is where I finally found a VOA for Lifeguard 8. I was going to post the results here today but as long as the video is now embedded anyone interested can get the VOA on LG8 right off the video.

 

[BlownGP]

So these fluid threads get so convoluted but I'm about to pick up my first ZF transmission ram. Granted it only has 23K miles on it, but I want to change all the fluids so I know they have been done.

I've been accustomed to low fluid temps in my 09 RAM with the a 180 Themo. Hell I don't thing my trans temp has ever got over 170* and that was in traffic on a 97* day.

Is Valvoline maxlife good for tranny fluid?
Seeing how I learned in this thread the transmission has a heater on it. What would the normal temps be and what would be too high that there's a problem?
Is the only deeper pan option the PPE one, no cheap dorman one like with the 545RFE?

Thanks
Steven

 

[Burla]

The good zf's seam to operate 180-190f and some lower.

I doubt maxlife is any worse then ZF fluid, multi vehicle I think would be more compatible then atf.

 

[joesstripclub]

So these fluid threads get so convoluted but I'm about to pick up my first ZF transmission ram. Granted it only has 23K miles on it, but I want to change all the fluids so I know they have been done.

I've been accustomed to low fluid temps in my 09 RAM with the a 180 Themo. Hell I don't my trans temp has ever got over 170* and that was in traffic on a 97* day.

Is Valvoline maxlife good for tranny fluid?
Seeing how I learned in this thread the transmission has a heater on it. What would the normal temps be and what would be too high that there's a problem?
Is the only deeper pan option the PPE one, no cheap dorman one like with the 545RFE?

Thanks
Steven

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/revmax-8-speed-thermostat-bypass.171776/

See very long thread above about various users' attempts to lower transmission temps.