Starting Conundrum

[Aurelius]

From above:

Fuel Pump Question:​

Could this be a fuel pump issue where it initially fails to send enough fuel, but after several attempts, the right amount builds up, allowing the engine to start and run normally because it vacuum-pulls the fuel even if the pump itself is weak?
I appreciate any insights or confirmation from those familiar with this type of issue!

Does anyone know if a fuel pump fail in the above manner?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Ken226]

From above:

Fuel Pump Question:​

Could this be a fuel pump issue where it initially fails to send enough fuel, but after several attempts, the right amount builds up, allowing the engine to start and run normally because it vacuum-pulls the fuel even if the pump itself is weak?
I appreciate any insights or confirmation from those familiar with this type of issue!

Does anyone know if a fuel pump fail in the above manner?

Thanks,

Steve

Yes, it could be that, or any number of things. It could also be the case that not enough pressure is building up at all. But, when your PCM detects an overly lean condition (presumably from your weak fuel pump), then the PCM will adjust the short term fuel trim to compensate, keeping the injectors open way longer, which will somewhat mask the problem.

But, this can only be determined by testing. Guessing, by you or anyone else here will barely be right as often as a coin toss.

A fuel pressure test kit is like, 25$ on Amazon, then you'll know for sure.



Here are 2 cheap tools from Amazon that are useful for no start condition diagnosis.

A fuel pressure test kit:

Amazon.com: Lichamp Fuel Pressure Gauge, Fuel Pump Pressure Test Kit with Hose Adapter, Compatible with Honda, Ford CFI EFI, GM MPI and Chrysler MPFI : Automotive

Buy Lichamp Fuel Pressure Gauge, Fuel Pump Pressure Test Kit with Hose Adapter, Compatible with Honda, Ford CFI EFI, GM MPI and Chrysler MPFI: Fuel Pressure Testers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

a.co

A compression test kit with a spark plug tester:

Amazon.com: BETOOLL 13pcs Compression Tester with Spark Plug Tester - 300PSI Engine Cylinder Compression Gauge Automotive Tool : Automotive

Buy BETOOLL 13pcs Compression Tester with Spark Plug Tester - 300PSI Engine Cylinder Compression Gauge Automotive Tool: Compression Gauges - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

a.co

 

[Aurelius]

Thanks so much, Ken. Makes perfect sense. I didn't know that such a fuel pump tester existed.

Because she only has 60K & change on her & she has been somewhat delicately driven mostly between home and marina, I thought that it was the battery because it was a year beyond warranty. As mentioned above, the Battery Store tested the battery & said, best they could tell, it was like new. Then the relay bypass, new starter, etc. My ego took over & left my mind behind!

Before I clean the WIN, I will endeavor to check the fuel pump.

Carpe diem,

Steve

 

[Aurelius]

Since I ran out of room for tools years ago, yet I seem to find a way to put them somewhere. (Wife says we need a 4K sf garage and 400 sf home.)
& since I don't think that I will use fuel pump pressure tester too often, I was pleased to learn that O'Reilly will lend the tool. It works like this: Purchase the tool with credit card & when you return it, the card is fully credited with the the amount previously charged. Doesn't make sense to me either, but I think i will avail myself to their largese this weekend. I was kind of looking forward to cleaning the WIN Module, but time is getting scarce; so, if it is the fuel pump...

 

[Wild one]

Yes, it could be that, or any number of things. It could also be the case that not enough pressure is building up at all. But, when your PCM detects an overly lean condition (presumably from your weak fuel pump), then the PCM will adjust the short term fuel trim to compensate, keeping the injectors open way longer, which will somewhat mask the problem.

But, this can only be determined by testing. Guessing, by you or anyone else here will barely be right as often as a coin toss.

A fuel pressure test kit is like, 25$ on Amazon, then you'll know for sure.



Here are 2 cheap tools from Amazon that are useful for no start condition diagnosis.

A fuel pressure test kit:

Amazon.com: Lichamp Fuel Pressure Gauge, Fuel Pump Pressure Test Kit with Hose Adapter, Compatible with Honda, Ford CFI EFI, GM MPI and Chrysler MPFI : Automotive

Buy Lichamp Fuel Pressure Gauge, Fuel Pump Pressure Test Kit with Hose Adapter, Compatible with Honda, Ford CFI EFI, GM MPI and Chrysler MPFI: Fuel Pressure Testers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

a.co

A compression test kit with a spark plug tester:

Amazon.com: BETOOLL 13pcs Compression Tester with Spark Plug Tester - 300PSI Engine Cylinder Compression Gauge Automotive Tool : Automotive

Buy BETOOLL 13pcs Compression Tester with Spark Plug Tester - 300PSI Engine Cylinder Compression Gauge Automotive Tool: Compression Gauges - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

a.co

38 bucks for the fuel pressure tester on US Amazon,104 bucks for it on Canuck gouge and screw Amazon,

Lichamp Fuel Pressure Gauge Test Kit with Hose Adapter, Automotive Fuel Injector Tester, 0-100 PSI (0-7 BAR), Compatible with Honda, Ford, GM, Chrysler : Amazon.ca: Automotive

Lichamp Fuel Pressure Gauge Test Kit with Hose Adapter, Automotive Fuel Injector Tester, 0-100 PSI (0-7 BAR), Compatible with Honda, Ford, GM, Chrysler : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

 

[Ken226]

38 bucks for the fuel pressure tester on US Amazon,104 bucks for it on Canuck gouge and screw Amazon,

Lichamp Fuel Pressure Gauge Test Kit with Hose Adapter, Automotive Fuel Injector Tester, 0-100 PSI (0-7 BAR), Compatible with Honda, Ford, GM, Chrysler : Amazon.ca: Automotive

Lichamp Fuel Pressure Gauge Test Kit with Hose Adapter, Automotive Fuel Injector Tester, 0-100 PSI (0-7 BAR), Compatible with Honda, Ford, GM, Chrysler : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

Wow., that's absurd.

But,

It's probably because they don't like going over the wall. They charge extra! That's a bigass ladder.

I heard in the "Done with Dodge" thread, that it's so cold, it's not even survivable up there without a heated steering wheel and seats with an integral ass warmer.

 

[Wild one]

Wow., that's absurd.

But,

It's probably because they don't like going over the wall. They charge extra! That's a bigass ladder.

I heard in the "Done with Dodge" thread, that it's so cold, it's not even survivable up there without a heated steering wheel and seats with an integral ass warmer.

View attachment 564335

My old winter beater Regal has heated seats,but no heated wheel,and damn it's like driving Fred Flintstones car with no heated wheel Hell even snowmobiles get heated hand grips these days,me thinks the younger generation is getting soft

 

[Ken226]

My old winter beater Regal has heated seats,but no heated wheel,and damn it's like driving Fred Flintstones car with no heated wheel Hell even snowmobiles get heated hand grips these days,me thinks the younger generation is getting soft

Yea, our Durango Citadel has all that stuff. Every time I get in it after a remote start and feel that heated seat and steering wheel, my first thought goes to how much that ****'s gonna cost to fix when it breaks.

 

[Aurelius]

She has been luxuriating in the garage this week & on Monday, Tuesday & Thursday I went out to start her. Each time, I let the starter turn over until it timed-out. & I pulled the key out each time & retried - same result.

This morning, I will continue to fix the problem.

Funny thing happened this morning: I Listened for the fuel pump & heard nothing in both ON & ACC; however, she started in less than a second & runs perfectly? Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[Aurelius]

Can't seem to desolder the posts in the WIN module enough to get the board loose?

 

[Wild one]

Can't seem to desolder the posts in the WIN module enough to get the board loose?

Are you wicking the old solder away with braid or a solder sucker

 

[Aurelius]

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CLEAN THE WIN MODULE!!
I should have known better, my trusk has only 60K & has light use in the cleanest environment in the world; so the odds of the WIN being dirty are next to none!!

Two of the posts are pulled out, I spent hours removing solder & the f'ing posts still pulled out,

Now I have destroyed the WIN that was perfecrly good! & I will have to saw the key out of the WIN unit!!

Now, I have replace the WIN, pay to have it programmed & then replace the fuel pump!

Thank God my Jag Forum has served me better for over 20 years! I will now look for a better Ram forum!

 

[Ken226]

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CLEAN THE WIN MODULE!!
I should have known better, my trusk has only 60K & has light use in the cleanest environment in the world; so the odds of the WIN being dirty are next to none!!

Two of the posts are pulled out, I spent hours removing solder & the f'ing posts still pulled out,

Now I have destroyed the WIN that was perfecrly good! & I will have to saw the key out of the WIN unit!!

Now, I have replace the WIN, pay to have it programmed & then replace the fuel pump!

Thank God my Jag Forum has served me better for over 20 years! I will now look for a better Ram forum!

So, you started fixing before testing?

Respectfully, that's not how diagnosing works.

You said you still need to replace the fuel pump. So, you connected a fuel pressure gauge? Then activated the pump with a scan tool?

Because if not, and your still guessing, this may not go well for you either. But, I suppose if you end up with two good fuel pumps you could sell one on eBay.

 

[Burla]

First of all replacing the Win was already needed, cleaning it is only a way to potentially save spending the money on the needed new one. You tried it kudos, didn't work then you need to replace something already needed. The first thing I posted was a way to diagnose with nothing more then a cheap wire and a push button, even something you could use and leave in place in case it wouldn't start. Many ram forum members have done this successfully, as a few have cleaned their wins as well. poor form complaining on the forum.

Dirt has nothing to do with it, it is a carbonized plating effect that happens worse in areas with large temp swings like snow and rainy states, but whatever.