Synthetic oil question

[Ramtruck16]

I switched to synthetic oil in my previous ram with no issues, i am planning to do it on my 16' hemi with 35k miles, im going to use either mobil one or Pennzoil synthetic, however i was wondering whats your guys opinion on the sythetic annual protection oil thats advertised?
its supposed to be good for a year but i dont know if i like having the same oil for a year and how well the oil will hold up.

 

[Burla]

What determines your oil change interval is tbn, total base number. When you run low on TBN the TAN or total acid number raises. You really should invest in a single UOA from blackstone towards the end of an interval. So at the 10 month mark with somewhere around 10k miles, send your sample in. M1 costco deal is pretty cheap like 4 bucks something per qrt, I would lean towards doing that twice a year as opposed to annual protection, just an opinion.

 

[Ramnewbie]

I'm not an extended OCI guy, I change oil 6 months 5/6k no matter what oil I run. In my opinion a UOA is an absolute necessity if you're going to run extended intervals. Personally I'd rather use that $30 and put it towards new oil and filter. As far as the M1 AP I don't think it's been out long enough to really tell how good it is. For me the M1 EP works really well.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[Ramtruck16]

I think im going to switch the oil to penzoil sythetic and just change it every 6k miles for piece of mind.

 

[17Veteran76]

All the test show the full syns can do 10,000/1yr miles easy.

At 32, I grew up with the 3,000 mile adage and Dino oil from my 42 years older father. It's hard to wrap my head around oils go for so long. But they do.

I've been a fan of Quaker State brand. They have a "high durability" full synthetic line. You can get 5qts between $14 and $20 depending on where you go. It's made by Royal Dutch Shell or as we know it here Shell. Shell also makes Pennzoil. Their Quaker state and Pennzoil is the same oil, different prices.


All oils meet SAE specs. For the most part, they are all good. Just each brand gets certain additives.

"Shell was partnered with Texaco. Anyway - - - - when Chevron bought Texaco, the SEC required parts of the partnership be dissolved. Shell wound up with the lubricants division of Texaco. Then Shell turns around and purchases Pennzoil, which was primarily a lubricants company, but also owns things like Jiffy-Lube, Quaker-State (via a merger in 2000) and a variety of other automotive-related companies, like Gumout, Rain-X, Fix-a-Flat, Slick 50, Blue Coral, Black Magic, and on and on and on."

"The Walmart-branded (Super-Tech?) oil is nothing more than repackaged Pennzoil"

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1403744

 

[rotwiler]

I use mobile 1 EP/and 4 oz of lubeguard biotech with mobile 1 EP filter and change oil every 10k on all my vehicles. Never had a engine related issue. My 13 Ram is quiet as can be, no hemi tick whatsoever.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I like PUP, and 6 month OCI with a Fram Ultra.

 

[Burla]

All the test show the full syns can do 10,000/1yr miles easy.

There are plenty examples of oil not making 10k miles. It doesn't matter the oil, even redline can fail under right conditions, and redline has always been a long interval oil. There is a lot that can happen, oils constantly change, and the newest oils are the worst at tbn with the lower calcium levels. With fuels being what they are, that is another potential issue with tbn failing. Now, I have had redline uoa's that show 3 plus tbn after 10k miles, but this guy at 11k miles was way out of tbn and probably was out for a while. Like I said, no matter what oil you use, if you plan on 10k intervals then get a UAO with tbn or you are at risk.

 

[17Veteran76]

There are plenty examples of oil not making 10k miles. It doesn't matter the oil, even redline can fail under right conditions, and redline has always been a long interval oil. There is a lot that can happen, oils constantly change, and the newest oils are the worst at tbn with the lower calcium levels. With fuels being what they are, that is another potential issue with tbn failing. Now, I have had redline uoa's that show 3 plus tbn after 10k miles, but this guy at 11k miles was way out of tbn and probably was out for a while. Like I said, no matter what oil you use, if you plan on 10k intervals then get a UAO with tbn or you are at risk.

These synthetic oils are formulated and marketed as 10,000 mile oils. The dealer handbooks that tell you the oil type have the oil fhange intervals at 10,000 on many vehicles. A lot of new vehicles are using 0w's to increase fuel economy.

However, whether, regular, semi, or full sythetic, you should always check your oil and stay within the manufactures operating recommendations.

Of course there are all kinds of variables (towing, off roading, mods, etc) we can name, but generally, if the manufacture says 10k, it can do 10k.

You can find examples of tons of things failing when they aren't supposed to.

My fat and tall office chair failed. I was under the supported weight, does it mean all of them will?

I don't think it is readable for normal vehicle owners to test their oil. Sure enthusiast will, but most won't. The best you can hope for is the instructions are both read and adhered to.

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[HammerHead]

I think im going to switch the oil to penzoil sythetic and just change it every 6k miles for piece of mind.

That's perfect. Oils developed with high TBN have enough additive package to go 10k or 1 year but that has nothing to do with dirty oil. And I'm not talking about particulate filtration with the oil filter, I'm talking about dirty black oil. Another thing you need to consider with 10k or 1 year oil change intervals is Thermal Stability. During the brief time interval that oil is flowing through the rod and main bearings, most oils will momentarily reach and exceed their thermal breakdown points; and once any oil, conventional or synthetic, has reached its onset of thermal breakdown point, the lighter oil fractions will begin to vaporize, leaving thicker and heavier oil. This will over time, contribute to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption, increased wear and increased emissions. So running Pennzoil synthetic for 6k is perfect, I personally recommend 5k on synthetic oil.
Check out the link in my signature to learn more. Enjoy!

Credit: Mechanical Engineer RAT 540

 

[17Veteran76]

That's perfect. Oils developed with high TBN have enough additive package to go 10k or 1 year but that has nothing to do with dirty oil. And I'm not talking about particulate filtration with the oil filter, I'm talking about dirty black oil. Another thing you need to consider with 10k or 1 year oil change intervals is Thermal Stability. During the brief time interval that oil is flowing through the rod and main bearings, most oils will momentarily reach and exceed their thermal breakdown points; and once any oil, conventional or synthetic, has reached its onset of thermal breakdown point, the lighter oil fractions will begin to vaporize, leaving thicker and heavier oil. This will over time, contribute to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption, increased wear and increased emissions. So running Pennzoil synthetic for 6k is perfect, I personally recommend 5k on synthetic oil.
Check out the link in my signature to learn more. Enjoy!

Credit: Mechanical Engineer RAT 540

Mobil 1 Extended Performance says up to 15k miles or 1 year.

I am trying to understand what you are saying. Are you saying some oils that claim they can go 10k miles cannot? Or that they all can, but there are ones that perform better? If the former, I will become nervous to trust any that didn't have third party testing done that I can read by trusted labs.

 

[Burla]

All you need to know, the uoa I posted was a guy that did short trips, he simply ran out of tbn. If all your driving is 10k FREEWAY miles, I would generally say yes your oil will survive that for 10k miles. If you do short trips, an 8k mile interval would be advisable. The problem is TAN, when it increases it ******* eats your metal. That is why that guy with a Honda had such high wear numbers, more like a Ram then a Honda. It has less to do with oil then how the truck was run and it's enthronement. Why not test yourself if you dont believe me. You try that 15k mile oil and do a uoa at 15k miles, report that back to syn thread, I would love to be wrong.

 

[Burla]

From link, I don't even know if this is what we have, my guess is that it is what we have.

DaimlerChrysler Corporation Flexible Service System
DaimlerChrysler’s version of the oil monitor is called ASSYST in Europe and the Flexible Service System (FSS) in the United States. Like GM’s sensor, the FFS uses a computerized system to track multiple engine operating conditions. From research on oil quality through the span of an engine’s life, Daimler discovered that the breakdown in oil is determined by such factors as driving habits (frequent short trips vs. long trips), driving speed and failure to replenish low oil levels. Therefore, the FSS monitors time between oil changes, vehicle speed, coolant temperature, load signal, engine rpm, engine oil temperature and engine oil level. It uses this information to determine the remaining time and mileage before the next oil change and it displays the information in the vehicle’s instrument cluster.

In addition, Daimler discovered that oil degradation is correlated directly with its ability to conduct electric current. Therefore, Daimler has fitted V-6 and V-8 engines with a digital oil quality dielectric sensor, that is mounted above the oil pan along with an analog oil level sensor. This sensor measures changes in capacitance, which effectively is a proxy for the amount and type of contaminants and oil degradation products present in the oil. An increase in dielectric constant (less resistance to electrical flow) indicates oil contamination and degradation.

 

[17Veteran76]

All you need to know, the uoa I posted was a guy that did short trips, he simply ran out of tbn. If all your driving is 10k FREEWAY miles, I would generally say yes your oil will survive that for 10k miles. If you do short trips, an 8k mile interval would be advisable. The problem is TAN, when it increases it ******* eats your metal. That is why that guy with a Honda had such high wear numbers, more like a Ram then a Honda. It has less to do with oil then how the truck was run and it's enthronement. Why not test yourself if you dont believe me. You try that 15k mile oil and do a uoa at 15k miles, report that back to syn thread, I would love to be wrong.

I feel like this is pretty much what I said in my previous post.. without all the acronyms and anger.

 

[Burla]

lol, ok partner, no anger was involved. Just a stern warning against TAN build up as I showed. Get this one through your head, TAN is acid, it is what determines a safe OCI. If you go over this because m1 told you to go 15k and you believed them, then you are a darwin award winner, with respect. Carry on.

One More for ya.
Optimizing Drain Intervals Using TBN vs. TAN

 

[17Veteran76]

lol, ok partner, no anger was involved. Just a stern warning against TAN build up as I showed. Get this one through your head, TAN is acid, it is what determines a safe OCI. If you go over this because m1 told you to go 15k and you believed them, then you are a darwin award winner, with respect. Carry on.

Again, I believe I already stated this in my previous post.... Something along the lines of, "generally if the manufacture says it can do 10k, it probably can, but there are other variables...."

You can rant and rave all day. For all the evidence you found of a guy who had 10k mile oil and it failed at 8k with short drives, you'll find the opposite of some guy who does short drives and the oil was fine. How many studies of that oil in that exact scenario was run with same or similar results?

I will change my oil prior to 10k miles. However, I am a skeptic at heart, and a "Safer than sorry" type.

 

[Burla]

I was just being helpful, take care of your equipment how you want to. Gather some info from different sources and have some kind of lubrication strategy. I change my oil at 3tbn, backed with uoa's, and that happens to be 10k miles with Redline and my external conditions.

 

[17Veteran76]

I was just being helpful, take care of you equipment how you want to. Gather some info from different sources and have some kind of lubrication strategy. I change my oil at 3tbn, backed with uoa's, and that happens to be 10k miles with Redline and my external conditions.

 

[MasonD21]

This sensor measures changes in capacitance, which effectively is a proxy for the amount and type of contaminants and oil degradation products present in the oil. An increase in dielectric constant (less resistance to electrical flow) indicates oil contamination and degradation.

This was an interesting piece of information I wasn't aware of! So the meter on my dash that says "64%" is actually the computer system "testing the oil"? I assumed it was the computer system "guessing" what the oil condition was, based on #-starts/stops, #miles trailering, #time spent in 4Lo, etc.

I change my oil every 5k, which ironically is around the 40% mark, mostly for piece of mind.

This might be a really dumb question, but is there any reason not to change oil sooner than recommended? For example, if I follow the heavy duty table in my manual, it will say 3,500 miles or 350 hours, whichever comes first. If I am not necessarily in the 'heavy duty/special operating conditions' table but I change oil anyway, is there any reason I shouldn't change it?

P.S.: I ask because I tow a trailer on the weekends, sometimes up some gnarly hills, so short durations of extremely heavy duty towing/hauling, but rarely at anything but a slow up-hill crawl at 5-10mph for about 1,000 feet on REALLY steep hill...

 

[SyN]

We have stated before within this thread.
This OLM system these Rams incorporates are pretty sophisticated pieces of equipment.

No matter what anybody says or thinks they know: This system does not just go off mileage.

It will give you a pretty accurate reading on your oil. It’s not a perfect system by no means but for the average owner it will keep them generally in the ballpark. (Safe Range)

Thanks Burla for posting that information about the OLM system that is very informative.

Mason: pardon my ignorance for I have not read too much back as of today do you mind sharing what brand & Viscosity of oil along with what filter you’re using with us?

To answer your question: in my personal dyslexic opinion I see nothing wrong with ever changing your oil earlier than scheduled.
The only thing it does is make you have to spend more money earlier.
As well as possibly dumping a oil that is still in great shape and can possibly still withstand 2000 /3000 more miles.
All it basically does is give a very **** owner such as myself and it sounds like you good peace of mind when you go to bed night.

I like these 2! They dance like me.


What the **** invite all of them!