Synthetic Oil

[Hemi395]

The oil filter is one of the major causes, if not the major cause, why people grenade their 5.7 HEMIs. The factory oil filter is undersized. Couple that with the fact that an owner might install a bad filter, and you got a disaster on your hands. Funny how people with SRT Chargers / Challengers have fewer issues with their motors because they run the bigger oil filter. FCA/Stelantis could have fixed this easily a long time ago, however, I guess they don't want these trucks to last for too long. But yes, not the oil, but the filter (and the thermostat) are the main issues with the 5.7 and 6.4 HEMIs in these trucks. Doing a grille shutter delete also helps if you go to a 180F thermostat.

Interesting, so you thing the factory 203⁰ tstat is also to blame?

 

[Rod Knock]

Interesting, so you thing the factory 203⁰ tstat is also to blame?

It's not just the 203F factory thermostat to blame, but also the grille shutters. The HEMI is being run way too hot from the factory, and that coupled with fuel economy oil spells disaster as the oil polymerizes every time the engine is heat soaked and you turn it off. Since I did a grille shutter delete and switched to a 180F thermostat, the M1 FS 0W-40 is pretty clean at ~5000 (on the dipstick). Before it was already a brownish / bronze color at this point. These engines were never meant for 0/5W-20, due to questionable Q&A and manufacturing, let alone that kind of heat. Though something like M1 5W-30, PP 5W-30 (not PUP), Castrol EDGE or Magnatec (this one has esters in it), QSUD, or any 5W-30 motor oil that you can get at Walmart and doesn't easily shear down to a 5W-20 will serve anyone well that has a Gen. 3 HEMI and is running a 180F stat and did a grille shutter delete. At that point, there is no more need for expensive oils like Redline or even 0W-40. Also, PUP 0W-40 is inferior to M1 FS 0W-40. Marketing does wonders though. If you really want a though oil that's cheap, look no further than QSUD Euro 5W-40 available at Walmart for $18.97 per 5-quart jug. I bet it slaps the **** out of PUP 0W-40. These days it's API SP rated, and it's also the same oil recommended for the EcoDiesel. It's got Moly, Boron, and a Calcium-Magnesium detergent system, and plenty of ZDDP. And it's ACEA A3/B4, Porsche A40, BMW LL01, MS-10725, and MS-12999 certified. Judging from what it can do, it has ester in it. Esters are not expensive, the problem is that you have to have the right base oil combination to accommodate them. That's why Lubegard Bio-Tech doesn't work that well in every oil that's mixed with. Lucky for me (and I didn't know it at the time), M1 FS 0W-40 has esters in it, mostly to deal with soot and other issues. That's why M1 + Lubegard has worked so great for me. The M1 EP line doesn't have esters in it though. If you're cheap, Castrol Magnatec is another oil that has esters in it, that's why most people with crappy engines use it because it quiets them down.

 

[Travis8352]

Which 0W-40 did you go with? Did you also switch to a bigger oil filter? Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 has esters in it, FYI.

M1 FS. Nope factory sized filter purolator boss instead of wix xp since oreilly was out of wix xp and auto valu was closed

 

[Travis8352]

It's not just the 203F factory thermostat to blame, but also the grille shutters. The HEMI is being run way too hot from the factory, and that coupled with fuel economy oil spells disaster as the oil polymerizes every time the engine is heat soaked and you turn it off. Since I did a grille shutter delete and switched to a 180F thermostat, the M1 FS 0W-40 is pretty clean at ~5000 (on the dipstick). Before it was already a brownish / bronze color at this point. These engines were never meant for 0/5W-20, due to questionable Q&A and manufacturing, let alone that kind of heat. Though something like M1 5W-30, PP 5W-30 (not PUP), Castrol EDGE or Magnatec (this one has esters in it), QSUD, or any 5W-30 motor oil that you can get at Walmart and doesn't easily shear down to a 5W-20 will serve anyone well that has a Gen. 3 HEMI and is running a 180F stat and did a grille shutter delete. At that point, there is no more need for expensive oils like Redline or even 0W-40. Also, PUP 0W-40 is inferior to M1 FS 0W-40. Marketing does wonders though. If you really want a though oil that's cheap, look no further than QSUD Euro 5W-40 available at Walmart for $18.97 per 5-quart jug. I bet it slaps the **** out of PUP 0W-40. These days it's API SP rated, and it's also the same oil recommended for the EcoDiesel. It's got Moly, Boron, and a Calcium-Magnesium detergent system, and plenty of ZDDP. And it's ACEA A3/B4, Porsche A40, BMW LL01, MS-10725, and MS-12999 certified. Judging from what it can do, it has ester in it. Esters are not expensive, the problem is that you have to have the right base oil combination to accommodate them. That's why Lubegard Bio-Tech doesn't work that well in every oil that's mixed with. Lucky for me (and I didn't know it at the time), M1 FS 0W-40 has esters in it, mostly to deal with soot and other issues. That's why M1 + Lubegard has worked so great for me. The M1 EP line doesn't have esters in it though. If you're cheap, Castrol Magnatec is another oil that has esters in it, that's why most people with crappy engines use it because it quiets them down.

Whats your thoughts on ANs? Ive read that most mobil 1 varieties contain ANs as opposed to esters and that m1 euro and esp oils contain esters

 

[Travis8352]

I have been wondering for years ever since hemi395's success with 0w30, if we should be looking hard at 0 winter rated oils as a lubrication strategy even in summer. Since it seams hemi's lack proper lubrication at idle and start up, wouldn't it make sense to use an oil that addresses these periods? And considering modern oils best effort oils are the 0 winter rated oils with stay in grade specs requiring differing base oils, what do you loose? 5w30 redline is an outlier because the viscosity is so stout versus 0w30 or 10w30 redline, but most oils you seam to loose nothing in the bargain by using 0 winter rated oils. I think I may break my number one rule of not breaking something that is working for me, but I might try 0w30 redline for the reason you state, better flow at start up and perhaps at warm idle. PSI doesn't tell the entire story, but it might be part of the solution, to actually opt for a little less psi but similar operating cSt.

I have wondered this as well since i found that according to msds mobil 1 ep 0w20 has 70 percent pao it could be a good oil for these engines if wanting to go a cheaper route. So far im very pleased with mobil 1 fs 0w40. At 221 degrees hauling a bed full and trailer full of firewood still held 53psi at 1600 rpm in tow haul mode. Have not had any hot idle tick in the drivethru like i did on schaeffers and pp once in a while. Depended how i drove prior to being in a drivethru so i wont say for sure its gone till i complete an OCI on this stuff

 

[Burla]

Excuse my ignorance, what is ANS? Or ANs?

 

[Rod Knock]

Whats your thoughts on ANs? Ive read that most mobil 1 varieties contain ANs as opposed to esters and that m1 euro and esp oils contain esters

Excuse my ignorance, what is ANS? Or ANs?

That is true. ANs part of the formulation and are there to basically keep the PAO in check in the absence of other esters. You don't want the PAO messing up seals or gaskets, lol. AN stands for Group V alkylated naphthalene. It's not really useful for these problematic HEMIs. You want an oil with esters and maybe add some lubegard so that the Moly sticks to the roller-lifters and lubes them properly all the time. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is such an oil. Ironically, PUP 0W-40 isn't, it doesn't contain esters.

I have wondered this as well since i found that according to msds mobil 1 ep 0w20 has 70 percent pao it could be a good oil for these engines if wanting to go a cheaper route. So far im very pleased with mobil 1 fs 0w40. At 221 degrees hauling a bed full and trailer full of firewood still held 53psi at 1600 rpm in tow haul mode. Have not had any hot idle tick in the drivethru like i did on schaeffers and pp once in a while. Depended how i drove prior to being in a drivethru so i wont say for sure its gone till i complete an OCI on this stuff

Now all you need to do is do a grille shutter delete and install a 180F thermostat. Even in winter, the worse that will happen is that your motor will run at 180F~185F. Towing 3000 lbs. I got it up to 210F maybe, while going uphill at 75MPH. That FS 0W-40 is good stuff. I hope you're using the big oil filter, as that's the real secret to proper lubrication.

 

[Travis8352]

Excuse my ignorance, what is ANS? Or ANs?

Alkylated napthalenes. I dont know much about them just have seen on bitog before that mobil uses them extensively for their extended drain capabilities and in their high mileage varieties to. Its a group 5 base stock is what i know

 

[Travis8352]

That is true. ANs part of the formulation and are there to basically keep the PAO in check in the absence of other esters. You don't want the PAO messing up seals or gaskets, lol. AN stands for Group V alkylated naphthalene. It's not really useful for these problematic HEMIs. You want an oil with esters and maybe add some lubegard so that the Moly sticks to the roller-lifters and lubes them properly all the time. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is such an oil. Ironically, PUP 0W-40 isn't, it doesn't contain esters.



Now all you need to do is do a grille shutter delete and install a 180F thermostat. Even in winter, the worse that will happen is that your motor will run at 180F~185F. Towing 3000 lbs. I got it up to 210F maybe, while going uphill at 75MPH. That FS 0W-40 is good stuff. I hope you're using the big oil filter, as that's the real secret to proper lubrication.

I will keep that in mind for my next oil change. Ive been using the smaller filter since i got the truck. Always wix xp except this last time purolator boss

 

[Burla]

Alkylated napthalenes. I dont know much about them just have seen on bitog before that mobil uses them extensively for their extended drain capabilities and in their high mileage varieties to. Its a group 5 base stock is what i know

How did they know it was in mobil oils? In msds?

 

[Travis8352]

How did they know it was in mobil oils? In msds?

Iirc something from some russian oil lab or something like that. Its not in msds but i remember it gave rough percentages on ester and an content of mobil oils. M1 euro 0w40 was i believe 5-7 percent ester where as redline is 12-15 percent? And it said the esp and euro use ester and vanilla, high mileage, race, and ep/ep hm use ANs and that some high mileage mobil 1 oils are almost entirely group 5 AN. Maybe the 5w30 ep hm? Not sure i buy that but thats was i remember

 

[Rod Knock]

I will keep that in mind for my next oil change. Ive been using the smaller filter since i got the truck. Always wix xp except this last time purolator boss

I'm having good success with these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G6FPN36/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Not a tick, tap, click, or any other noise since I started using them.

 

[Travis8352]

I'm having good success with these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G6FPN36/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Not a tick, tap, click, or any other noise since I started using them.

Thank you. Ill try

 

[HEMIMANN]

Some observations with different oils and filters. Had 5w30 RL with Fram XG2 filter. Noticed tapping while idling in a drive thru with fully warmed up engine. Got me concerned. Switched to PUP 5w30 and WIX 57899XP filter and the engine is very quiet. Not sure what to think of it. Possibly the FRAM is more restrictive when it comes to flow. With FRAM, oil pressure stayed between 50psi and 58psi, no matter idle or driving. With WIX, the pressure drops to 34psi at idle and goes up as high as 58psi driving.

Interesting. I recently switched from PUP 0W-40 to RL 5W-30, using the same Fram XG oil filter number (don't recall number offhand). I didn't notice any difference in oil pressure readings on the EVIC...35 idle, 55 running.

I have the 6.4L Hemi. Don't know if that makes any difference.

 

[Rod Knock]

Interesting. I recently switched from PUP 0W-40 to RL 5W-30, using the same Fram XG oil filter number (don't recall number offhand). I didn't notice any difference in oil pressure readings on the EVIC...35 idle, 55 running.

I have the 6.4L Hemi. Don't know if that makes any difference.

That's the Fram XG2. Try one of these, you'll like it more: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G6FPN36/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

RL 5W-30 has the same viscosity as PUP 0W-40, except that it won't shear. Does your truck sound any different with RL 5W-30 when you start it up for the first time, cold?

 

[Travis8352]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/valvoline-extended-performance-0w20-voa.341710/

voa for the new extended performance oils from valvoline. Tons of moly for valvoline!

 

[Burla]

I need to see another to verify it wasnt just an after market additive. Maybe valvoline read the syn thread and fixed their oil, lmao. I'd love to see valvoline go all in on moly, that oil looks worth trying in cold climate for piston slap and hemi tick. I do believe we will start seeing the non api additives creep up with these thin oils, boron and moly to name the two big ones. It wont stop there either, stay in grade plus ultra low viscosity will bring out better quality base oils as well, the stay in grade specs will alert you to the quality oils, plus msds when you can find them.

 

[Burla]

Science says two more oils with a shot at killing tick for those interested.

m1 fs 0w40

and

valvoline HP 0w20 (maybe other weights as well)

 

[Burla]

I dont see any valvoline that is extended performance

they do say syn power is pao and good for gdi, apparently they arent aware pao is worse then group 3 for gdi, but whatever. Might be good for hemi, which is all I care about here.

 

[Rod Knock]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/valvoline-extended-performance-0w20-voa.341710/

voa for the new extended performance oils from valvoline. Tons of moly for valvoline!

View attachment 249443

Keep in mind that the additive package correlates directly to the base oils used to make the product. Valvoline's additive package "might" look impressive, but their base oils are usually low-rent. Making motor oil formulations is a balancing act. Also, high Moly in motor oil serves different purposes, like balancing Phosphorus for timing chain wear or to compensate for shearing. No motor oil that I am aware of is specifically designed for the efed-up lifters in the HEMI. At one point Castrol EDGE 0W-40 (before FCA) was recommended for SRT applications. That oil has ZERO Moly in it and uses Titanium as a friction modifier, but by God, is it good oil. It's PAO and other synthetic and Group III compounds.

In Germany, oil companies have to specify what type of motor oil they're selling. If the base is predominantly GTL, or Group III then it's called "HC SYNTHESE", or Hydro-Carbon Synthesis. If it's a mix of Group III, IV and/or V, then it has to be labeled "TEILSYNTHESE", which means partially synthetic. So, in Germany, Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is labeled "HC SYNTHESE", and Castrol EDGE 0W-40 is labeled "TEILSYNTHESE." Just look up the containers. Base oil is very important, more so than a fancy additive package that's meant to compensate for a poorly blended base.