Synthetic Oil

[HEMIMANN]

just changed oil. Went to wix xp 57899 over the small 57060. Seems like alot of metal to me

Assuming the drain pan was relatively clean prior to draining, that doesn't look good - at all. Do you have a past UOA showing high wear metals? Two problems here - excessive metals on a broken-in engine, and failure to filter them. We know HEMI's are high wear engines, but visible particles? Wow. That's what you expect (and have seen) from initial break in.

 

[gfh77665]

To me the site is worthless except i enjoy reading molakules posts regarding base oils and formulations as well as the UOA/VOA section

I think the site still has some fantastic posters and information. "Molacule" for all things oil related and "Trav" and "clinebarger" for everything mechanical are the best of the best.

What ruins the site are the know-it-all posters who have attitude, and uneven moderation that plays favorites.

 

[Travis8352]

Assuming the drain pan was relatively clean prior to draining, that doesn't look good - at all. Do you have a past UOA showing high wear metals? Two problems here - excessive metals on a broken-in engine, and failure to filter them. We know HEMI's are high wear engines, but visible particles? Wow. That's what you expect (and have seen) from initial break in.

Never had a uoa done. Wish i had. And yes it was clean prior to use if i remember right however the last thing i drained into it was my transfer case fluid so now im not sure

 

[MontanaHandyman]

I was a long time active poster on BITOG but I left on my own. I was not banned. The final straw for me was when a Mod went off on me just for MENTIONING the poster "Pablo". See the deal is, Pablo is a great guy, but he is an AMZOIL rep who apparently contributes to the site, so in turn they are hypersensitive about him.

All I did was mention him in passing in a thread about property values being different across the USA. I then received hateful messages and threats about "TARGETING PABLO".... OMG.

What an overreaction it was. I never said a single derogatory thing about Pablo at all. All I did was mention that he had commented about property values, too. I left because I had had enough. Plenty of other forums out there.

There must be something in the water over at bitog.

 

[Travis8352]

after seeing that metal in my oil ive become nervous about this truck. Not sure what the cause would be but maybe m1 0w40 is to thick? Maybe i should go back to a 5w20? I never had metal flakes in the oil on pennzoil platinum or schaeffers 5w20. This was the first run on m1 0w40 and also first time using a purolator boss filter

 

[Burla]

There must be something in the water over at bitog.

Sadly ram forum does not have the vaccine against bitog trolls. I have never had so many complaints in my inbox over the last ten years then I have had the last month, and everyone knows it. Sorry fellas I can do nothing, I tried.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Ah...Mobil 1. Ditch it. High volatility, low wear protection, low cleaning ability.
Ever since Exxon bought Mobil back, it's been all downhill. For 20 years.

 

[Rod Knock]

Sadly ram forum does not have the vaccine against bitog trolls. I have never had so many complaints in my inbox over the last ten years then I have had the last month, and everyone knows it. Sorry fellas I can do nothing, I tried.

But I can, and I will. It will take a bit of time. However, you will like the result, guaranteed. As I said before, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding we had, and if you had any because of me, I'm sorry about those as well.

after seeing that metal in my oil ive become nervous about this truck. Not sure what the cause would be but maybe m1 0w40 is to thick? Maybe i should go back to a 5w20? I never had metal flakes in the oil on pennzoil platinum or schaeffers 5w20. This was the first run on m1 0w40 and also first time using a purolator boss filter

No, it wasn't because of the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 or the Purolator BOSS filter. As much as I'd like to rag on Mobil 1 a little bit, it's not that bad of an oil. In fact, the 0W-40 also contains group V (esters). Under high heat, however, it shears and evaporates like nothing else I've seen. I haven't seen oil that shears so fast.

Question 1: Were the jugs/bottles sealed when you took off the cap? Just making sure your oil wasn't spiked or something.

Question 2: Did you clean the pan thoroughly after you changed the transfer case fluid?

Even on a new engine, you don't see shavings like that, so I have a theory that may be valid only if you answered no to question #1 and yes to question #2:
You bought this truck used, and 5W-20 was used in the beginning. Most regular/cheap (almost all of them) 5W-20 oils don't have excellent cleaning power. Not the ILSAC/ACEA A1/A5/B5 type oils anyway, because they are not required to (this is why I use Castrol when I have to use thin oils, conforming to ACEA C2/C5 specs). Maybe that debris was not properly flushed out of your pan, and now the M1 FS 0W-40 finally got it loose from your pan. Want to be sure you're safe and clean? Dump a bottle of Lubegard Bio-Tech in there, run it for a few hundred miles, then get a bottle of Lubegard Engine Flush, run the engine at idle for 20 minutes and dump the oil. Look at it again, maybe even slowly filter it through a coffee filter. If there is less debris, then you're on the right track. If there is even more, there is a problem. The one thing I know (on a HEMI) that sprinkles debris in the pan is lifters. I'm not trying to scare you, just offering a solution.

Which Purolator did you use on your last oil change?

[Edit]

If you're really nervous about the engine, after you change the oil again, go to RedLine 5W-30. I know it's expensive, and it's what's keeping me from it. I am very pleased with Castrol EDGE 0W-40 so far. Even with its fuel mileage. But I'm not pushing my oil choice on anyone else, as it's my experiment. EDGE 0W-40 is a modern formulation, derived from their mid-SAPS 0W-40. As far as I know, EDGE 0W-40 doesn't contain esters, as Castrol uses their own proprietary additive bonding technology that they have a patent on.

 

[Rod Knock]

Ah...Mobil 1. Ditch it. High volatility, low wear protection, low cleaning ability.
Ever since Exxon bought Mobil back, it's been all downhill. For 20 years.

I agree with all of the above and experienced some of it myself. Does ExxonMobil claim to spend $1 billion/year on R&D.? Where the heck does all that money go? Because sure as heck, it doesn't go to motor oil. They don't even have a decent transmission fluid. Well, they do have Delvac 1 ATF, but I assume they have forced into TES 295 compliance with that one, lol.

The guy that got me banned from BITOG, Mr. OVERKILL, made the above claim. He also claims that Mobil 1 is the factory fill for Porsche and GM and that 0W-40 is used in Porsche racing... The factory fill for Bugatti, Rolls Royce, and Bentley, along with Koenisggseg, are all supplied by Castrol. Not that I buy into that kind of marketing, but there is that, lol. Shell supplies Ferarri, amongst others, just to pile on.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I worked for Mobil Oil Corporation for 3 years as Field Service Industrial Lube Engineer, spent 6 months in their specialized training school, after attaining a Bachelor's in Mechanical Engineering. In those days, Mobil was serious about excellence.

Mobil sneered at Exxon as nothing more than the biggest E&P producer in the world (at the time), concerned with nothing more than extraction and wholesaling massive volumes of hydrocarbons to others. Nothing more.

Now you see what happened. Exxon savaged Mobil's highly developed technical infrastructure - closed labs, research, threw people out. I knew some of them. I could not believe (& still can't) the FTC allow Exxon to buy Mobil. These are 2 of the original "7 sisters" that were broken up from the Standard Oil Trust of Rockefeller via antitrust law.

 

[Rod Knock]

I worked for Mobil Oil Corporation for 3 years as Field Service Industrial Lube Engineer, spent 6 months in their specialized training school, after attaining a Bachelor's in Mechanical Engineering. In those days, Mobil was serious about excellence.

Mobil sneered at Exxon as nothing more than the biggest E&P producer in the world (at the time), concerned with nothing more than extraction and wholesaling massive volumes of hydrocarbons to others. Nothing more.

Now you see what happened. Exxon savaged Mobil's highly developed technical infrastructure - closed labs, research, threw people out. I knew some of them. I could not believe (& still can't) the FTC allow Exxon to buy Mobil. These are 2 of the original "7 sisters" that were broken up from the Standard Oil Trust of Rockefeller via antitrust law.

So their R&D money goes to E&P, I would assume. It makes sense, since sure as heck, it doesn't go to formulating lubricants.

Oh, and this stuff:

Revealed: ExxonMobil’s lobbying war on climate change legislation

They're America's biggest oil company - committed they claim, to tackling the climate emergency. But tonight this programme can reveal undercover footage of ...

www.youtube.com

@Travis8352 forgot about API SN+: it's API SN with LSPI protection built-in. They decreased Calcium and added Magnesium in most oils. Castrol EDGE 0W-40 has the same Calcium levels as most API SN Resource Conserving oils. They tried to add Magnesium and decrease Calcium, but it didn't go over for wear protection in that particular oil.

 

[Travis8352]

But I can, and I will. It will take a bit of time. However, you will like the result, guaranteed. As I said before, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding we had, and if you had any because of me, I'm sorry about those as well.


No, it wasn't because of the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 or the Purolator BOSS filter. As much as I'd like to rag on Mobil 1 a little bit, it's not that bad of an oil. In fact, the 0W-40 also contains group V (esters). Under high heat, however, it shears and evaporates like nothing else I've seen. I haven't seen oil that shears so fast.

Question 1: Were the jugs/bottles sealed when you took off the cap? Just making sure your oil wasn't spiked or something.

Question 2: Did you clean the pan thoroughly after you changed the transfer case fluid?

Even on a new engine, you don't see shavings like that, so I have a theory that may be valid only if you answered no to question #1 and yes to question #2:
You bought this truck used, and 5W-20 was used in the beginning. Most regular/cheap (almost all of them) 5W-20 oils don't have excellent cleaning power. Not the ILSAC/ACEA A1/A5/B5 type oils anyway, because they are not required to (this is why I use Castrol when I have to use thin oils, conforming to ACEA C2/C5 specs). Maybe that debris was not properly flushed out of your pan, and now the M1 FS 0W-40 finally got it loose from your pan. Want to be sure you're safe and clean? Dump a bottle of Lubegard Bio-Tech in there, run it for a few hundred miles, then get a bottle of Lubegard Engine Flush, run the engine at idle for 20 minutes and dump the oil. Look at it again, maybe even slowly filter it through a coffee filter. If there is less debris, then you're on the right track. If there is even more, there is a problem. The one thing I know (on a HEMI) that sprinkles debris in the pan is lifters. I'm not trying to scare you, just offering a solution.

Which Purolator did you use on your last oil change?

[Edit]

If you're really nervous about the engine, after you change the oil again, go to RedLine 5W-30. I know it's expensive, and it's what's keeping me from it. I am very pleased with Castrol EDGE 0W-40 so far. Even with its fuel mileage. But I'm not pushing my oil choice on anyone else, as it's my experiment. EDGE 0W-40 is a modern formulation, derived from their mid-SAPS 0W-40. As far as I know, EDGE 0W-40 doesn't contain esters, as Castrol uses their own proprietary additive bonding technology that they have a patent on.

I did not think about the cleaning part. I bought my truck used with 7k on it. It was a "chrysler employee lease return" judging by the oil life monitor it had an oil change at 6k so i drove it to 12k where it got a free dealer change of 5w20 syn blend service pro oil and a service pro filter. At 18k o switched to a wix xp filter with pennzoil platinum 5w20 and did the same at 24k and at 30k. At 36k i switched to 7.5 quarts of 5w20 pennzoil platinum. At 42k i switched to schaeffers 9000 5w20 with a wix xp and did the same at 48k. At 54k i switched to mobil 1 0w40 and a purolator boss filter because i couldnt find a wix xp in stock. Now at 66k the only change i made was a wix xp 57899 instead of the smaller wix xp 57060. I cant remember the part number but it was the oem size purolator boss filter.
i cannot remember if i cleaned the pan after the transfar case fluid because it was late and night and had to leave for a vacation in the morning. Im pretty sure i did but im not sure. Oil jugs were sealed that i know for sure because i remembered thinking oh nice sealed jugs. Thats better than the schaeffers bottles atleast.

what i do know for sure is engine still runs and idles buttery smooth and oil pressure is strong no abnormal noises outside of my broken manifold bolts on passenger side when cold.

i may just keep running this and see what happens after 6k or change in 3 and see how it looks. If i change to 5w20 im thinking either edge 5w20, edge ep 5w20, schaeffers 5w20 again, or redline 5w20. Im hoping this is just the esters in mobil 1 doing some cleaning

 

[HEMIMANN]

I've often wondered why Euro Mobil 1 is still excellent. I speculate the European lubricant quality agency ACEA won't allow Exxon to pass their US crap off in the EU. I'd suspect they're contracting somebody in Europe to make these days.

 

[Travis8352]

I've often wondered why Euro Mobil 1 is still excellent. I speculate the European lubricant quality agency ACEA won't allow Exxon to pass their US crap off in the EU. I'd suspect they're contracting somebody in Europe to make these days.

I wouldnt put it past exxon. They are a shady company

 

[Rod Knock]

i may just keep running this and see what happens after 6k or change in 3 and see how it looks. If i change to 5w20 im thinking either edge 5w20, edge ep 5w20, schaeffers 5w20 again, or redline 5w20. Im hoping this is just the esters in mobil 1 doing some cleaning

There is no reason to go back to 5W-20. I tried it a little while back, remember? It sucked. At least I super cleaned the engine. It had a flush, and two 100 miles runs of 5W-20. The last time I drained the oil, it looked like new was coming out of the pan. I went to Harbor Freight and bought two 10 piece sets of neodymium magnets and put them (patiently) on the oil filter, so they stick to each other and the filter. I'm also using a magnetic drain plug. I like Castrol's thin oils because they are either based on European formulations or are European formulations in a different bottle. For example, EDGE EP 0W-20 is EDGE 0W-20 C5 in Europe. Both of them have identical approvals, including MB229.71. Look up MB229.71 on Lubrizol, and see how much ground it covers. Then EDGE EP 5W-20 and 5W-30 are thicker versions of the 0W-20. If you want a mid-SAPS oil with an HTHS > 3.5 (or equal to), then Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W-30 or Castrol EDGE 5W-30 C3 fit that bill nicely. American 0/5W-20/30 oils were meant to be cheap to produce (ask ExxonMobil). The API requirements are embarrassingly low. Just look on Lubrizol. Look for MB229.5, MB229.51, Porsche A40 approvals, ACEA A3/B4, or C3. Finally, RedLine uses a classical friction modifier, and it works really well for needle bearings. Do you know those stupid friction machines on YouTube? Well, needle bearings have a similar wear pattern, so the motor oil with the best and most friction modifier wins, lol. Not to mention that POE in RedLine cleans really well.

I've often wondered why Euro Mobil 1 is still excellent. I speculate the European lubricant quality agency ACEA won't allow Exxon to pass their US crap off in the EU. I'd suspect they're contracting somebody in Europe to make these days.

That's silly, lol. Didn't you hear? ExxonMobil spends a billion per year on R&D! Watch yourself because the BITOG vultures might start looking for you, lol. Sarcasm aside, I don't think that ACEA keeps them in line. ACEA is just an association, and they don't hold manufacturers accountable. They only set standards. Manufacturers themselves enforce the approvals. For example, ExxonMobil took a year to obtain MB229.5 approval for their Mobil 1 FS 5W-40 oil from Daimler. You would think that a company like ExxonMobil would have no problem passing the sequencing tests. Well, they didn't. And while it was pending, they sold it as Mobil 1 FS X2 5W-40 to confuse the consumer even more. You can find them at many Walmarts now side by side with the same barcode and different labels. How ridiculous is that?

 

[Gort]

So, after reading a lot about LubeGard and ticking, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to run it with PuP 0W-40 in my new 6.4. It doesn't tick right now and I'd like to keep it that way.

My question, though, is how long to wait before adding it on oil changes? I did the break-in oil change at about 1K miles and used PuP 0W-40 as recommended in the manual. I'm currently approaching 3K miles and was going to do another oil change at 4K. Is it better to add the LubeGard now or wait a bit longer for better engine break-in?

 

[Burla]

So, after reading a lot about LubeGard and ticking, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to run it with PuP 0W-40 in my new 6.4. It doesn't tick right now and I'd like to keep it that way.

My question, though, is how long to wait before adding it on oil changes? I did the break-in oil change at about 1K miles and used PuP 0W-40 as recommended in the manual. I'm currently approaching 3K miles and was going to do another oil change at 4K. Is it better to add the LubeGard now or wait a bit longer for better engine break-in?

If it were me and I had no tick, I would wait until next oil change.

 

[Rod Knock]

So, after reading a lot about LubeGard and ticking, I'm thinking it might be a good idea to run it with PuP 0W-40 in my new 6.4. It doesn't tick right now and I'd like to keep it that way.

My question, though, is how long to wait before adding it on oil changes? I did the break-in oil change at about 1K miles and used PuP 0W-40 as recommended in the manual. I'm currently approaching 3K miles and was going to do another oil change at 4K. Is it better to add the LubeGard now or wait a bit longer for better engine break-in?

Lubegard BioTech can't prevent lifter failure. It's a really good cleaner if you have a dirty engine, but that's about it. The reason for that is because Lubegard uses a Moly-Phosphorus compound, not Moly-Sulfur. So it doesn't work as part of the oil, but rather competes with the oil for the surface. Bonding additives to the base oil is complicated chemistry. So complicated in fact, that each manufacturer has their own proprietary technology for doing it. Castrol uses a PAO molecule IIRC to do it, and they have a patent on it.

Highly friction-modified oil like PUP SRT 0W-40 helps cut lifter wear. So does Castrol EDGE 0W-40 and EDGE 0W-40 C3/Dexos 2, but that's my own little experiment, so disregard it. RedLine Oil is better than PUP but if you choose to go that route then keep some PUP receipts for warranty purposes. Otherwise, PUP is good stuff.

 

[Rod Knock]

@HEMIMANN , @Travis8352, @Hemi395, @Wild one, @Burla, @tidefan1967

Check this video out from Reignited on YouTube:

The CHEAPEST HEMI on Marketplace Ep3: Hemi Lifter Myth Busted for GOOD!

The Cheapest Hemi on Marketplace Ep3: Hemi lifter myth busted for Good! Hey guys, in this episode of the Cheapest Hemi we continue down the rabbit hole of pr...

youtu.be

Got to 8:43.

Remember what I said right before I had my fallout with @Burla? That the HEMI doesn't have a lubrication problem, and that Chrysler installed sub-par cams in the HEMIs when they introduced VVT? This video was published about 5 hours ago. I watched the entire thing. This guy knows his stuff, and I believe him. Enjoy!

 

[Wild one]

@HEMIMANN , @Travis8352, @Hemi395, @Wild one, @Burla, @tidefan1967

Check this video out from Reignited on YouTube:

The CHEAPEST HEMI on Marketplace Ep3: Hemi Lifter Myth Busted for GOOD!

The Cheapest Hemi on Marketplace Ep3: Hemi lifter myth busted for Good! Hey guys, in this episode of the Cheapest Hemi we continue down the rabbit hole of pr...

youtu.be

Got to 8:43.

Remember what I said right before I had my fallout with @Burla? That the HEMI doesn't have a lubrication problem, and that Chrysler installed sub-par cams in the HEMIs when they introduced VVT? This video was published about 5 hours ago. I watched the entire thing. This guy knows his stuff, and I believe him. Enjoy!

Supposedly the engineers spec'd the VVT cams as billet cams,but the bean counters over ruled them. The soft cam idea,has been floating around for a few years.