Synthetic Oil

[Even7steven]

JMO

Another note on the mopar oil certification. The cert doesnt care if your engine last past the warranty.

JMO

EDIT:

I know that is a little.... extreme. Joke aside. IMO the cert is not that important. Just do your homework on oil for your hemi

The certifications on oil are given based on their lubrication properties. If it did not matter, then as an example motorcycles that use shared engine oil to lubricate their drive gears could, by this same logic, could use any 10w40 oil and function as designed. Dare you to try that.

 

[Travis8352]

T

BOTTLE SAYS MS6395 RIGHT ON IT.

View attachment 462578

Great option for the hemi i think

 

[Rod Knock]

I think long term use of high moly has no ill effects on wear. Good to have 3 high moly uoa's on same page as 3 low moly uoas. Now find one like that with a hemi.

Valvoline Extended Protection 5W-30 should be tested for hemi tick.

BOTTLE SAYS MS6395 RIGHT ON IT.

View attachment 462578

@Burla, the Purolator BOSS is junk. I almost lost my HEMI because of it. For some reason, the filter gasket deformed after about 5000 miles. I did the oil change on Friday and noticed that but let it be for now. I'll take some pictures of it tomorrow after I clean the filter and post them. It sprayed oil on my block. About a quarter of the gasket looks like it's shrunk or pressed down. Good thing the oil pressure was still good. I have never seen anything like this with a "premium" oil filter. Heck, I used to buy the cheapest Baldwin filters for my Freightliner 15 years ago, and even those didn't do this. After this, I went straight to Amazon to order some RP 20-820, but they're completely out of stock. Honestly, I don't know if I'll play around with Valvoline or go straight to Red Line. That's why I was kind of wondering about fuel mileage. Since my HEMI runs at such cool temperatures, it takes forever for the oil to warm up and thin out. @Hemi395 knows what I'm talking about. I have a FRAM Titanium FS2 filter (it's like the XG2 but nicer). Maybe I'll use that one. What can I say, Purolator BOSS, made in the USA... so much for quality.

 

[Travis8352]

@Burla
I checked valvolines website and even 10w30 valvoline advanced full syn has the ms6395 cert

 

[Hemi395]

PS...the cat was cut off during the night while it was sitting at the rest stop after the suburban died. It was towed the next day, so it was never run after the cat was stolen. (as you can tell, I've never been accused of being the best story teller!)

LOL gotcha

 

[Rod Knock]

@Burla
I checked valvolines website and even 10w30 valvoline advanced full syn has the ms6395 cert

I think it says recommended for.

 

[Rod Knock]

@Travis8352 since the FCA-PSA merger, things have changed. @Travis8352 Same as Mobil 1 0/5W-20, it says that it's recommended for MS-6395 applications. This only goes to show that this entire non-sensical MS-6395 debacle was politically motivated.

Valvoline Extended Protection 5W-30 should be tested for hemi tick.

No, it shouldn't. I'm willing to bet money that it's not going to do much of anything for the HEMI tick. The reason why Red Line works is because of the oil formulation. Below is a boring video. However, they explain it reasonably well starting around the 1:15 mark:

Red Line Oil Corp. - The Science of Syntehtic Oil

This is an older video released by Red Line but no longer available on the official website. However, it still valid today and makes for an easy digestion of...

youtu.be

Here is the thing: we don't know why they put 300ppm of Moly in there. It looks great on paper, however, we don't know what kind of Moly is and how it's bonded to the base oil.

Castrol for example uses a PAO molecule that they patented to bond additives to any base stock. Look up US patent 8,603,954. Something like that won't help a ticking HEMI. I'm betting that most ILSAC motor oils are made in a similar manner.

Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 uses an ester-based additive system. I'm willing to bet that Castrol EDGE 0W-40 doesn't. I tried the first one, it made the engine a bit quieter, but that's about it.

Lubegard? Well, when you add it at the recommended 3oz. per quart, you're displacing your other additive by 9.35%. Results are not guaranteed. It's a good cleaner though if you have a dirty engine.

So far, the only thing that improves the way a ticking HEMI sounds is Red Line. The logical explanation is that the esters bond to the surface of the metals inside the engine. Find me another commercially available motor oil that can do that and I could then say that we have a second option. Until then, we don't. I searched for a better oil for the HEMI, but there isn't one. It's either you run any regular oil, or you run Red Line.

I'm not going to experiment with other oils. When I switch from the 5W-20 that I'm running, my next oil will be Red Line. I will do a bit more testing before I do.

 

[ramffml]

@Travis8352 since the FCA-PSA merger, things have changed. @Travis8352 Same as Mobil 1 0/5W-20, it says that it's recommended for MS-6395 applications. This only goes to show that this entire non-sensical MS-6395 debacle was politically motivated.


No, it shouldn't. I'm willing to bet money that it's not going to do much of anything for the HEMI tick. The reason why Red Line works is because of the oil formulation. Below is a boring video. However, they explain it reasonably well starting around the 1:15 mark:

Red Line Oil Corp. - The Science of Syntehtic Oil

This is an older video released by Red Line but no longer available on the official website. However, it still valid today and makes for an easy digestion of...

youtu.be

Here is the thing: we don't know why they put 300ppm of Moly in there. It looks great on paper, however, we don't know what kind of Moly is and how it's bonded to the base oil.

Castrol for example uses a PAO molecule that they patented to bond additives to any base stock. Look up US patent 8,603,954. Something like that won't help a ticking HEMI. I'm betting that most ILSAC motor oils are made in a similar manner.

Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 uses an ester-based additive system. I'm willing to bet that Castrol EDGE 0W-40 doesn't. I tried the first one, it made the engine a bit quieter, but that's about it.

Lubegard? Well, when you add it at the recommended 3oz. per quart, you're displacing your other additive by 9.35%. Results are not guaranteed. It's a good cleaner though if you have a dirty engine.

So far, the only thing that improves the way a ticking HEMI sounds is Red Line. The logical explanation is that the esters bond to the surface of the metals inside the engine. Find me another commercially available motor oil that can do that and I could then say that we have a second option. Until then, we don't. I searched for a better oil for the HEMI, but there isn't one. It's either you run any regular oil, or you run Red Line.

I'm not going to experiment with other oils. When I switch from the 5W-20 that I'm running, my next oil will be Red Line. I will do a bit more testing before I do.

I have to admit being a little confused by your recent posts. Weren't you the guy a few days/weeks ago that was saying "run a thicker oil, but redline isn't magic" and "purolotor boss oil filters are the way to go".... and now I've seen you in the last 2 days come back from both those statements??

Just curious, we're all free to change our mind (especially if/when evidence supports it), just wondering why the change in your thoughts.

 

[Rod Knock]

I have to admit being a little confused by your recent posts. Weren't you the guy a few days/weeks ago that was saying "run a thicker oil, but redline isn't magic" and "purolotor boss oil filters are the way to go".... and now I've seen you in the last 2 days come back from both those statements??

Just curious, we're all free to change our mind (especially if/when evidence supports it), just wondering why the change in your thoughts.

RedLine isn't magic, and I was looking for other options as well. At some, I thought that Lubegard was a second option. However, it doesn't do much else besides adding some cleaning power to motor oil. The Moly in Lubegard doesn't bond to the motor oil that's mixed with it. I've also learned a few new things about how motor oils are formulated. I hope that that's not all you got from my posts because all I was trying to do is figure out what causes the HEMI tick and other tangible solutions besides using Red Line. For now, there aren't any others.

If you read my posts, you'll see that I recommended using a big oil filter. Purolator BOSS PBL24651 is the one I'm using because I found it easier to install than the FRAM Ultra XG2/FS2, and I never bought the RP 20-820, and now it's out of stock. So I recommended one of these filters because these are the only ones that I know of to be made with synthetic media.

That being said, I'm mad at Purolator because a filter gasket shouldn't fail when you're close to the end of your OCI for no good reason, especially since the engine is running cooler now.

The bottom line is that I'm not afraid to admit when or if I'm wrong or apologize for upsetting someone.

[Edit]

@ramffml I would really appreciate it if you would quote my entire post(s) without any alterations where I said that:
"run a thicker oil, but redline isn't magic" and "purolotor boss oil filters are the way to go"

Thank you.

 

[Rod Knock]

@Travis8352, did you notice any change in valvetrain noise level since you switched to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40? Is it any quieter or louder than it was with 5W-20? Thank you.

 

[HEMIMANN]

@phoenixgenesys - RP 20-500 is their midsize filter, did you check availability for this in place of 20-820?

 

[Rod Knock]

@phoenixgenesys - RP 20-500 is their midsize filter, did you check availability for this in place of 20-820?

It's in stock at Amazon, but I don't want it. I like the big oil filter. I'd probably run an SRT filter before I run that. Oil flow is important to me. I also have a FRAM Titanium FS2. If I really have to, I can put it in a ZipLock back and squeeze it between the A/C lines and coolant hose so I don't scratch anything - it's got sandpaper-like coating. The same thing that happened to this guy happened to me:

Challenger 5.7 Hemi Mobil 1 210a oil filter leak part 1

Not sure why this happen but, shortly after i changed the oil in my 2016 Challenger R/T 5.7 Hemi oil began to leak from the Mobilhttps://www.youtube.com/ed...

www.youtube.com

When I saw his video a while ago (I was researching oil filters) I thought he did something wrong. I guess sometimes they put on bad gaskets, who knows, maybe they get these PTFE gaskets from the same place. I'm sure it could have happened with any oil filter.

I will wait for the 20-820 to get back in stock. By then I will know if I'll keep using M1 EP 5W-20 or switch to Red Line 5W-30 for preventive maintenance purposes.

I used RP filters before on a 2013 Sonata Turbo 2.0L, along with RP 5W-30. I kept using their filters until I got a rusted shipment of their oil filters. I still have one somewhere around here. That's what turned me off because I said to myself that if they can't properly package and store them, they're not worth the price premium. FRAM used to sell rusted-out oil filters as well. I am not enamored with Purolator, but their BOSS line seemed solid so far. The Purolator air filters are garbage, they won't even fit properly in the air intake box half the time.

 

[Bigpaul13]

RedLine isn't magic, and I was looking for other options as well. At some, I thought that Lubegard was a second option. However, it doesn't do much else besides adding some cleaning power to motor oil. The Moly in Lubegard doesn't bond to the motor oil that's mixed with it. I've also learned a few new things about how motor oils are formulated. I hope that that's not all you got from my posts because all I was trying to do is figure out what causes the HEMI tick and other tangible solutions besides using Red Line. For now, there aren't any others.

If you read my posts, you'll see that I recommended using a big oil filter. Purolator BOSS PBL24651 is the one I'm using because I found it easier to install than the FRAM Ultra XG2/FS2, and I never bought the RP 20-820, and now it's out of stock. So I recommended one of these filters because these are the only ones that I know of to be made with synthetic media.

That being said, I'm mad at Purolator because a filter gasket shouldn't fail when you're close to the end of your OCI for no good reason, especially since the engine is running cooler now.

The bottom line is that I'm not afraid to admit when or if I'm wrong or apologize for upsetting someone.

[Edit]

@ramffml I would really appreciate it if you would quote my entire post(s) without any alterations where I said that:
"run a thicker oil, but redline isn't magic" and "purolotor boss oil filters are the way to go"

Thank you.

Royal Purple Filter 20-820

Royal Purple Filter 20-820 is engineered to match superior particle removal with optimized flow for maximum engine protection and filter life.

royalpurpledirect.com

I got my last batch of filters from the site above. If you buy 6 or more, they're only 12 bucks eachm

 

[Rod Knock]

Royal Purple Filter 20-820

Royal Purple Filter 20-820 is engineered to match superior particle removal with optimized flow for maximum engine protection and filter life.

royalpurpledirect.com

I got my last batch of filters from the site above. If you buy 6 or more, they're only 12 bucks eachm

Thank you!

Any rust on the ones you received?

 

[Travis8352]

@Travis8352, did you notice any change in valvetrain noise level since you switched to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40? Is it any quieter or louder than it was with 5W-20? Thank you.

Its still quiet after 3k on this run. Only tick i have is my broken manifold bolts on passenger side. All is well so far its about the same level of noise as with schaeffers 5w20 except slightly quieter when its at hot idle

 

[Rod Knock]

Its still quiet after 3k on this run. Only tick i have is my broken manifold bolts on passenger side. All is well so far its about the same level of noise as with schaeffers 5w20 except slightly quieter when its at hot idle

I don't think that I'll be sticking with 5W-20 for too long. I think that this HEMI has been cleaned and rinsed like never before, lol. Used Lubegard Bio-Tech for three OCIs, did a Lubegard engine flush and a 50-mile oil drain/filter replacement with 5W-20. And this truck has never been abused. I think it's ripe for Red Line 5W-30. Why?

I stumbled on some of @Burla's old posts from Bob's. He mentioned something about these engines showing valvetrain issues and lifter problems around the 70K mark. I know a guy at our local RAM dealership who has a 2017 RAM 1500 like mine and his lifters and cam went bye-bye at 68K miles. He's been running PP 5W-20 in it. When at least two people that know about this stuff say the same thing, and they don't even know each other, it must be true. I'd rather avoid engine work (with two small kids) for as long as possible. Fear is a powerful motivator.

 

[ramffml]

@ramffml I would really appreciate it if you would quote my entire post(s) without any alterations where I said that:
"run a thicker oil, but redline isn't magic" and "purolotor boss oil filters are the way to go"

Thank you.

Nah man, don't get worked up that kind of thing, it's called "conversation" and if I miss paraphrase you then you have the ability to reply and set me straight like you just did. Or block me etc but I'm not going to wade back 20 pages to find what you might have wrote, that's why I asked the question in the first place. Especially in this very active thread with 4100 pages and replies that come in fast and furious...

 

[Travis8352]

I don't think that I'll be sticking with 5W-20 for too long. I think that this HEMI has been cleaned and rinsed like never before, lol. Used Lubegard Bio-Tech for three OCIs, did a Lubegard engine flush and a 50-mile oil drain/filter replacement with 5W-20. And this truck has never been abused. I think it's ripe for Red Line 5W-30. Why?

I stumbled on some of @Burla's old posts from Bob's. He mentioned something about these engines showing valvetrain issues and lifter problems around the 70K mark. I know a guy at our local RAM dealership who has a 2017 RAM 1500 like mine and his lifters and cam went bye-bye at 68K miles. He's been running PP 5W-20 in it. When at least two people that know about this stuff say the same thing, and they don't even know each other, it must be true. I'd rather avoid engine work (with two small kids) for as long as possible. Fear is a powerful motivator.

I think im right there with ya on redline. Might bite the bullet next xhange

 

[Rod Knock]

Nah man, don't get worked up that kind of thing, it's called "conversation" and if I miss paraphrase you then you have the ability to reply and set me straight like you just did. Or block me etc but I'm not going to wade back 20 pages to find what you might have wrote, that's why I asked the question in the first place. Especially in this very active thread with 4100 pages and replies that come in fast and furious...

I'm sorry, no offense intended in my statement. Just wanted to be accurate. It looks like my search for an alternative that does what Red Line does is futile. It ain't gonna happen. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 + Lubegard was a crapshoot. I kept some of it send it in to have it analyzed, but I'd be surprised if the results are anything to write home about.

I think im right there with ya on redline. Might bite the bullet next xhange

Spend an extra $100 or so per year on oil, or spend $5K (or more) on fixing the engine when it $h1ts the bed. That's the question. Some HEMIs went on 200K miles or more on whatever 5W-20 oil, or so are the anecdotes. That's all good, but somehow, something inside of me tells me that it's not worth the risk. I was on Bob's and Porsche drivers with Turbo Charged engines are not happy how M1 FS 0W-40 shears down to 9.x CST on a short OCI, and it's not fuel dilution but shearing from the heat in Turbos. At 240F+ when I was towing, I lost a bit over half a quart of M1 FS 0W-40 last year in a day. I think that Mobil 1 is neglecting that oil because they have M1 ESP 0W-40 and M1 X3 0W-40, all of them more recent formulations.

 

[Travis8352]

I'm sorry, no offense intended in my statement. Just wanted to be accurate. It looks like my search for an alternative that does what Red Line does is futile. It ain't gonna happen. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 + Lubegard was a crapshoot. I kept some of it send it in to have it analyzed, but I'd be surprised if the results are anything to write home about.


Spend an extra $100 or so per year on oil, or spend $5K (or more) on fixing the engine when it $h1ts the bed. That's the question. Some HEMIs went on 200K miles or more on whatever 5W-20 oil, or so are the anecdotes. That's all good, but somehow, something inside of me tells me that it's not worth the risk. I was on Bob's and Porsche drivers with Turbo Charged engines are not happy how M1 FS 0W-40 shears down to 9.x CST on a short OCI, and it's not fuel dilution but shearing from the heat in Turbos. At 240F+ when I was towing, I lost a bit over half a quart of M1 FS 0W-40 last year in a day. I think that Mobil 1 is neglecting that oil because they have M1 ESP 0W-40 and M1 X3 0W-40, all of them more recent formulations.

M1 x3? Never heard of that one. Im curious to see your uoa. How many miles/changes did you run the m1 fs? I might do one more then redline. I still got 2.5 quarts so another jug will do er and im gonna add the big filter