Synthetic Oil

[The Critic]

I'm guessing we would want the "supercar" 0w-30 formula, correct?

For the record, I do not have any experience with HPL’s 0W30. But traditionally, 0W30’s have not been the most shear-stable grade due to the large spread.

Do you really need a 0W30?

 

[ramffml]

For the record, I do not have any experience with HPL’s 0W30. But traditionally, 0W30’s have not been the most shear-stable grade due to the large spread.

Do you really need a 0W30?

Probably not, that was one of the two weights I used from Redline, the other being 5w-30 but it does make a cold start knocking noise that I tried to reduce with better winter rating. Not sure it helped to be honest, trying to remember sounds that occurred 8 months prior is never that accurate.

I'd have no problems trying 5w-30 again if that's the better oil.

 

[The Critic]

Probably not, that was one of the two weights I used from Redline, the other being 5w-30 but it does make a cold start knocking noise that I tried to reduce with better winter rating. Not sure it helped to be honest, trying to remember sounds that occurred 8 months prior is never that accurate.

I'd have no problems trying 5w-30 again if that's the better oil.

Generally speaking, regardless of brand, narrower grades will use fewer VII’s and will be more shear-stable. Although some brands use better VII than others, a 5W-20 or 5W-30 is likely to have a higher base oil viscosity and fewer VII’s than a 0W-XX of the same grade. How cold does it get in your area?

 

[az chip]

I was wrong about the engine smoothing out after putting in Redline 5W-20. At approx. 2300 miles after using it, the engine went quiet. Cannot hear it inside the cab. Don't know of it will help the engine long term. I hope so. But it is so smooth and quiet now. Thanks to all in this thread.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Ok gang, I aggregated select, published motor oil data from HPL and Red Line individual viscosity grade data sheets. Recall they state these are "typical" properties, without a stated tolerance band (proprietary quality control, undoubetdly).

You'll see some strange non-trends in the data. Sorry the background turned out murky - my png picture file has white background - don't know what the forum software does to it.

My high-level conclusion is that only HPL Super Car motor oil compares to Red Line High Performance Oil. HPL Performance Plus may be "good enough" for Hemi's as well, since all HPL oils are heavily spiked with additives, according to a BITOG report.

Have at it:

 

[Burla]

That is great work right there hemimann. So you look at pour points in the 5w30 range and you see that you have great cold performance to avoid piston slap, which we get a lot with 5w30 redline and why guys move to 0w30 redline. Plus, pretty much all of their oils are higher in moly? The single knock on 5w30 redline was it left cold places susceptible to cold piston slap, it is likely related to that hths. Calls for butter smooth operation, but lacking on cold performance.

It looks like redline falls inbetween their 4 product lines. Do we have any pricing on their top two lines? Pretty amazing when you see it all on a sheet. If HPL is a little funky, it is in what they name their lineups. As you see super car 0w30 looks like a winner.

At this point it is all theory, we wont know unless some ram guys wiith hemi tick buy some and run it. If that is you, let's talk about what looks good. Travis or Hemimann or anyone who knows, all hpl has well over 500ppm moly?

 

[Burla]

So hemimann appears to have desirable characteristics in dark shade and "lesser" in white, as far as metal protection. HPL tends to be thinner across the board. This is a great oil to test the hypothesis of it being viscosity or additives that keep tick away, because hpl has more EP additives then redline. If we were to compare moly levels, all of the redline would be in white and hpl would be dark. Thinner yes, but also esters. Do we know which hpl is pao and which group 3, and all have esters as well as moly?

 

[HEMIMANN]

So hemimann appears to have desirable characteristics in dark shade and "lesser" in white, as far as metal protection. HPL tends to be thinner across the board. This is a great oil to test the hypothesis of it being viscosity or additives that keep tick away, because hpl has more EP additives then redline. If we were to compare moly levels, all of the redline would be in white and hpl would be dark. Thinner yes, but also esters. Do we know which hpl is pao and which group 3, and all have esters as well as moly?

All I did was shade in green a statistically better performance data between the two brands. If I shaded both, it means they were near equal. If I could attach the excel spreadsheet instead of a screen photo into the forum, you could see it much better. But it's not capable of it.

The thing you can see with HPL Performance Plus and Super Car is the use of API Group IV PAO base oil stock instead of Group III, pushing the CCS & pour point capability down to colder temperatures. But it made no difference in shear resistance (HTHS).

I guess HPL doesn't seem to be anything special compared to Red Line - EXCEPT with Red Line 0W High Performance Series going away, being replaced by some consumer API SP recipe. In that case, the HPL would be an acceptable substitue.

I checked some pricing - prices have gone nuts. Red Line now selling for $14 something / quart, HPL $15 / quart (with member discount).

I used to be able to get Red Line on sale for $11 something / quart.

 

[Wild one]

What do you guys think of mixing 0W-40 and 5W-30 Redline for a 6.4.I bought 14 quarts of 0W-40 Redline a year ago for the wifes 6.4 Challenger when i stumbled onto it being on sale,and now i'm wishing i'd of bought 5W-30 for it instead.I'm stuck with the 0W-40,but wondering if i would gain anything by mixing the two,or maybe even adding Lubegard to the 0W-40.What's your guys opinion.Right now it's still on the dealer supplied 0W-40 PUP with a bottle of lubegard thrown in,but the dealer changes are going to end soon.

 

[Burla]

I might be inclined to mix a 20 weight redline with that in Canada. 0w40 redline is somewhat mis labeled imo. They should call it 15w40, because it is likely thicker then most 15w40's. It is 2 points thicker then almost any other 0w40. It does shear a lot, but when it starts it would be thick.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Well, after dicking around for a month, Elite Fab finally refunded my payment for 4 gallons of Red Line 0W-30 due to their fuched up shipping and service dept. Of course, now they're out since Red Line just stopped production.

There goes my 2 year resupply plan thanks to vendor(s) incompetence. Maybe I'll just mix the couple quarts of 0W-30 I have left with 5W-30 and ignore the piston slap and lifter starvation.
Too many a$$holes in the world now to defeat.

 

[Wild one]

I might be inclined to mix a 20 weight redline with that in Canada. 0w40 redline is somewhat mis labeled imo. They should call it 15w40, because it is likely thicker then most 15w40's. It is 2 points thicker then almost any other 0w40. It does shear a lot, but when it starts it would be thick.

The car doesn't see any real winter use,but it will get used if there's no salt on the roads at temps of about 25F.Would you reconmend 5W-20 or 0W-20 to mix with the 0W-40 Mike.Thanks for your help.
Rick

 

[Burla]

5w20, no vii's, that 0w40 has plenty.

 

[Burla]

Well, after dicking around for a month, Elite Fab finally refunded my payment for 4 gallons of Red Line 0W-30 due to their fuched up shipping and service dept. Of course, now they're out since Red Line just stopped production.

There goes my 2 year resupply plan thanks to vendor(s) incompetence. Maybe I'll just mix the couple quarts of 0W-30 I have left with 5W-30 and ignore the piston slap and lifter starvation.
Too many a$$holes in the world now to defeat.

what was their case price? amazon has redline 0w30 ar 154 bucks.

 

[HEMIMANN]

HPL Premium Plus 0W-30 $183 list (lowest series with API Group IV PAO base oil), $156 our discount

HPL Super Car (+ star polymer vii additive) 0W-30 $196 list, $167 our discount.

Edit - sorry just got back, confused. EliteFab sale was $140.61, but doesn't matter since it's gone.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'll be damned - I thought Amazon, along with everybody else was out of Red Line 0W-30?

Sorry, guys - I scored two out of the 8 remaining cases of Red Line 0W-30 @ Bezos' World. With the couple quarts I got left over, this will be 4 winter's worth of oil changes. May be dead or otherwise predisposed by that point, wherein you guys can have my leftovers. The oil, that is - not me.

 

[Travis8352]

Travis or Hemimann or anyone who knows, all hpl has well over 500ppm moly?

yes i believe they all contain the over 500 ppm or moly and their BAS (bad ass racing oil) contain over 1800 ppm i believe. That oil is also very capable on the street as well but not for super long drains like their pcmo and supercar oils.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Note: @Burla research showed little wear prevention benefit to moly additive beyond 200 ppm in lab wear testing.

 

[Rod Knock]

Note: @Burla research showed little wear prevention benefit to moly additive beyond 200 ppm in lab wear testing.

Friction reduction and wear prevention are not the same thing.

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

I wonder is redline changing their 0w30 to be DEXOS1 certified? This way maybe they could reach more of the common vehicle market that are looking for that DEXOS1 certification. Meaning they would have to dial back the ZDDP.