Synthetic Oil

[tjfdesmo]

Hemi Honey strikes again. It is pretty remarkable.

 

[Burla]

It's been 20 bucks less then the HPL super car per case since probably ever, so do we call out HPL? Or even 6 quart case, so 40 a case different wow? If redline is price gouging what do we call that?

Price gouging is not corporation issue, everything that has happened on pricing is square on this particular gov't actions on policy. I'm sure a few of us can remember the carter administration, this has been carter 2.0 and corporate greed is not a factor. They devalued the dollar, everything is more expensive. My favorite restaurant I have been going forever just lost me as a customer, I cant afford it, dam mexican food is now out of my budget.

I do admire amsoil for not following suit, but I'm not blaming any corporation for what this administration did. Who knew borrowing a extra trillion dollars would convert us from dollars to pesos? No I'm not being political, lets not go there, but it is relevant to the pricing issues period end of story.

Inflation rate by president, yup jimmy carter all over again, it is what it is, this was responsible for all price increases we have seen. Just of info purposes, this is what happens under inflation, If anyone thought biden was just another obama, simply not true, obama never had bad inflation like this. America has not seen anything like this since the 70's, not even close.

• Carter 1977 - 1981. 9.9%
• Ford 1974 - 1977. 8%
• Biden 2021 - 5.7%
• Nixon 1969 - 1974. 5.7%

 

[ramffml]

It's been 20 bucks less then the HPL super car per case since probably ever, so do we call out HPL? Or even 6 quart case, so 40 a case different wow? If redline is price gouging what do we call that?

Redline and HPL are pretty different products. HPL appears to have much longer runtime for a start, we always knew RL was a short interval oil.

I don't think we need the SC either. Pretty sure the basic PCMO has everything we need and then some, and that's still cheaper than RL last I looked. Can't wait to have my current oil sent to blackstone to compare it to the other runs.

 

[Burla]

I'm not sure I would agree with any of that, and tbn increase doesnt account for that much price increase. I mean in that argument just go amsoil ss long interval oil and leave the hpl on the shelf? Especially if you dont have hemi tick. As for hemi tick, we know what the nuke option is. At this point hpl sc 0w30 only has promise of being an answer, that question is still on the board. Want it answered, send a case to corey, lol.

 

[ramffml]

I'm not sure I would agree with any of that, and tbn increase doesnt account for that much price increase. I mean in that argument just go amsoil ss long interval oil and leave the hpl on the shelf? Especially if you dont have hemi tick. As for hemi tick, we know what the nuke option is. At this point hpl sc 0w30 only has promise of being an answer, that question is still on the board. Want it answered, send a case to corey, lol.

My understanding is that HPL has everything. It has the incredible cleaning/detergents, it has the long run time, it has the high doses of friction modifiers and anti wear, it has no shear down, it is top of the class in every way. Amsoil isn't that, neither is RL. You pay definitely pay for it, but I doubt you'd find a better oil for a better price.

I'm all also not willing to use one truck as the end all and be all for classifying what a "tick" is, too many people saying "I have tick" and to me it's just a noisy valve train. And in that case HPL has definitely silenced my engine completely, but so has RL and Mobil 1 FS 0w-40. I can't say which oil was quieter because that's relying on ears over 2+ years and that's just not accurate.

But I am amazed at how quiet my engine is today, even that cold start knocking I've complained about in the past and could never get rid of (I thought/think it's piston slap), that was pretty much non-existant this winter on just the basic PCMO 5w-20 I'm running). I know no other oil has done that for me, including HPL's P+ (the oil designed for cold/harsh winters) though maybe viscosity is playing a role here as this is the first time in years I'm running a 20 weight.

So my view: HPL is staying in my truck and hang the cost. Not everything has to be judged on a 100% cent vs cent basis. I didn't complain about RL's cost either when I was running it, if that's what it takes then that's what it takes. And I still don't think HPL is directly comparable to RL, they're designed for different purposes (according to what I've read on bitog anyway).

 

[ramffml]

^^ of course, I could be wrong, it's happened at least once before

 

[Burla]

hpl sc 0w30 formula being hemi honey 2.0 is a theory, redline 5w30 is a proven theory. I'm gettable, I can be got, but I am only gettable with results, this I promise you. Nice guys and fantastic additives great company, if I had a nickle for everytime I heard that, you know what I'm saying? Killing hemi tick is a complicated thing, sometimes formulas with promise on paper have no luck with tick.

 

[Ludville1]

hpl sc 0w30 formula being hemi honey 2.0 is a theory, redline 5w30 is a proven theory. I'm gettable, I can be got, but I am only gettable with results, this I promise you. Nice guys and fantastic additives great company, if I had a nickle for everytime I heard that, you know what I'm saying? Killing hemi tick is a complicated thing, sometimes formulas with promise on paper have no luck with tick.

I get it. My '09 with 162K miles on it purrs like a kitten on the Redline 5w30 at idle, and roars like a lion when on the gas...not changing a thing! And I hope that Redline doesn't change a thing either regarding their formula on the Hemi Honey. It's expensive, but for a once a year oil change (2K-3K miles), I can live with it.

 

[ramffml]

hpl sc 0w30 formula being hemi honey 2.0 is a theory, redline 5w30 is a proven theory. I'm gettable, I can be got, but I am only gettable with results, this I promise you. Nice guys and fantastic additives great company, if I had a nickle for everytime I heard that, you know what I'm saying? Killing hemi tick is a complicated thing, sometimes formulas with promise on paper have no luck with tick.

The problem I have is that "tick" is not defined in terms we can all agree on, or scientifically measure. For instance, this is what I call tick, see the video below, I doubt RL is killing this tick. First video is sample noise, second video the same guy pulls the lifter and shows the carnage, so we know the sound we hear in the first video is true hemi tick (lifter failure).

Sometimes what other people call "tick" is just a noisy valve train, and HPL, RL, and other oils/additives like LG can definitely help with that. So "killing tick" means different things to different people and the reports we hear back need to be understood in this context.

As for "nice guys", well at least to date they haven't changed the formula behind our back without telling us lol. The second RL did that is that second I went shopping for a different brand.

Hemi Tick (lifter failure)

2011 Ram 1500 Tapping Sound

Roller on a lifter starting to go bad. Caught it before it ate the cam.

www.youtube.com

And proof that its a damaged lifter, same channel/same guy pulls a lifter and shows it:

Ram 1500 Lifter Failure

95k Miles, caught it before it destroyed the camshaft.

www.youtube.com

This is my engine on HPL. Quiet as a church mouse, and that's on the thin 5w-20 basic PCMO too, not SC:

Watch hemi on HPL PCMO | Streamable

Watch "hemi on HPL PCMO" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[Burla]

They certainly did tell us 0w30 was changing, lol. They put out a updated data sheet a year prior. Selective thing you are yoda would say

We knew what was coming, plenty of time to stock up with no shelf life on their oils. But I agree I was not happy either, the second best oil at killing tick off the board. In redlines defense, they dont formulate oils to kill hemi tick, nobody does, we just found a little something here at ram forum.

 

[ramffml]

They certainly did tell us 0w30 was changing, lol. They put out a updated data sheet a year prior. Selective thing you are yoda would say

We knew what was coming, plenty of time to stock up with no shelf life on their oils. But I agree I was not happy either, the second best oil at killing tick off the board. In redlines defense, they dont formulate oils to kill hemi tick, nobody does, we just found a little something here at ram forum.

What was the fuss about then, maybe my memory is just bad (likely) but I thought I remember Falcon Hemi/Rod Knock back in the day contacting them and asking about a formula change, and RL's response was that they were waiting to update the website with the specs as they wanted the inventory to clear out first.?

 

[tjfdesmo]

There are several individual noises lumped into the term "tick". I can say that besides "general noisiness", my 6.4 made that tapping/knocking noise, but at lower volume, and Red Line did kill it. Thanks to this forum, I addressed it right away, and didn't keep driving until it progressed too far.

 

[ramffml]

There are several individual noises lumped into the term "tick". I can say that besides "general noisiness", my 6.4 made that tapping/knocking noise, but at lower volume, and Red Line did kill it. Thanks to this forum, I addressed it right away, and didn't keep driving until it progressed too far.

This forum has been great, no question. The entire reason for joining back when I did was to address my noisy engine. My first post was asking about it lol.

 

[Burla]

What was the fuss about then, maybe my memory is just bad (likely) but I thought I remember Falcon Hemi/Rod Knock back in the day contacting them and asking about a formula change, and RL's response was that they were waiting to update the website with the specs as they wanted the inventory to clear out first.?

you know if I said what that dude was the spell checker would dot it out, rhymes with ^^^^. I had an email from dave many months before the switch posted here, in fact we were wondering what was taking so long.

 

[turkeybird56]

Anybody remember the days of taking a vehicle out,running the hell out of it,to get it hot,then slowly pouring water down the carb while revving it at 2500 rpm,then giving it enough water after a minute of pouring it through the carb,to make it die,letting it sit for a few minutes so the water turned to steam,and loosened the carbon,then take it back out and beat the hell out of it again,to blow the residual carbon out the exhaust valve. That's what that video reminded me of,lol

I used to dump small amounts of cheap ATF oil in the carb to clean it out. Made for a great Bug Sprayer mobile back in the day. Don't think I would dump that stuff in my fuel these days, LOL. The things U dump down an old Chevy with a Rochester quadro junk on it, lol.

 

[HEMIMANN]

How would we summarize today's situation for Hemi owners?

Keep using Red Line 5W-30 (or PUP 5W-30 with lubegard) until the HPL trials are over?

Amsoil hasn't worked reliably?

Use RP biggest oil filter and/or Fram's new/old Endurance (old Utra)?

 

[Burla]

blackstone report of month is a ram

tbn and tan test

those are pdf from blackstone

 

[ramffml]

How would we summarize today's situation for Hemi owners?

Keep using Red Line 5W-30 (or PUP 5W-30 with lubegard) until the HPL trials are over?

Amsoil hasn't worked reliably?

I've read more than once that Amsoil is noisy, not just in hemi's either. I don't see the point to it. I do have Amsoil severe gear in my rear diffs, this stuff is highly recommended everywhere it seems so, win some lose some. I might switch to HPL for my diffs and transmission though too.

HPL trial is over in my engine, most likely I'll be running the basic PCMO long term. I have one oil change for this summer already in my garage, that's No VII Euro 5w-30 and I'll use that up while my PCMO run gets sent to blackstone and then when I get the result back I'll more than likely commit to the PCMO, just want to have those wear numbers etc back first. If guys can hit 250,000 miles on dealer oil (pp 5w-20) then I'm confident that HPL will do the job even better. I don't see the need for super car or premium plus (my winters don't get cold enough to warrant that so I'm going to cash the savings there).

I also have one batch of RL 5w-30 in my garage from like 2020 or so, the plan is to hang onto it as its pre formula changes and IF my truck starts to chatter again then I have something to compare it against.

According to this post on BITOG, the RL 5w-30 Euro is included in the recent formula change and has reduced ZDDP. I don't know how much the ZDDP played a role in the hemi tick:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-red-line-oil-high-performance-0w-20-and-0w-30-api-sp-elemental-analysis.362576/post-6312511

 

[HEMIMANN]

I've read more than once that Amsoil is noisy, not just in hemi's either. I don't see the point to it. I do have Amsoil severe gear in my rear diffs, this stuff is highly recommended everywhere it seems so, win some lose some. I might switch to HPL for my diffs and transmission though too.

HPL trial is over in my engine, most likely I'll be running the basic PCMO long term. I have one oil change for this summer already in my garage, that's No VII Euro 5w-30 and I'll use that up while my PCMO run gets sent to blackstone and then when I get the result back I'll more than likely commit to the PCMO, just want to have those wear numbers etc back first. If guys can hit 250,000 miles on dealer oil (pp 5w-20) then I'm confident that HPL will do the job even better. I don't see the need for super car or premium plus (my winters don't get cold enough to warrant that so I'm going to cash the savings there).

I also have one batch of RL 5w-30 in my garage from like 2020 or so, the plan is to hang onto it as its pre formula changes and IF my truck starts to chatter again then I have something to compare it against.

According to this post on BITOG, the RL 5w-30 Euro is included in the recent formula change and has reduced ZDDP. I don't know how much the ZDDP played a role in the hemi tick:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-red-line-oil-high-performance-0w-20-and-0w-30-api-sp-elemental-analysis.362576/post-6312511

Thanks for your work. HPL has a bunch of moly in it too.

 

[Burla]

Week in review, hemi tick really doesnt kinda exist, HPL is jesus juice and a great company we all can agree, redline is an evil price gouging corporation, and most of us still run it.