Synthetic Oil

[ramffml]

Did you guys see this video? Putting too much oil in your pan can cost you on HP/Torque, these guys ran a test where the difference between 5 qts and 9 qts (in an 11 qt sump) cost them 60 hp. But on 5qts they lost half the oil pressure too.

How MUCH OIL is TOO MUCH? Dyno Results!

@themotoroilgeek visits Ben Strader at EFI University to talk oil – specifically the four “R”s of Lubrication: the Right Oil, in the Right Place, at the Rig...

www.youtube.com

 

[crackerjack1957]

Did you guys see this video? Putting too much oil in your pan can cost you on HP/Torque, these guys ran a test where the difference between 5 qts and 9 qts (in an 11 qt sump) cost them 60 hp. But on 5qts they lost half the oil pressure too.

How MUCH OIL is TOO MUCH? Dyno Results!

@themotoroilgeek visits Ben Strader at EFI University to talk oil – specifically the four “R”s of Lubrication: the Right Oil, in the Right Place, at the Rig...

www.youtube.com

Short run on dyno........would hate to be on a street engine with low oil.
Also they are usually a dry sump oil system.
Basically all factory engines are wet sump.
Oil level to high would would rob crank HP with oil being whipped by crank.

High volume/high pressure pumps pull HP.......not much but every bit counts on a mild/stock street engine. Performance/race engines different story.

 

[crackerjack1957]

The reason why Hemi will rattle on startup after sitting for long periods unless moly or other types of protective coatings are in oil.

One of the disadvantages of a front-mounted oil pump is that it is mounted high and dry. Oil tends to drain out of the pump rather quickly when the engine is shut off, leaving the pump dry for the next start. The pump also has a relatively long pickup tube to connect it to the oil in the pan. Consequently, a front-mounted pump takes longer to self-prime and generate oil pressure following a cold start, especially with heavier viscosity oil. By comparison, most crankcase-mounted pumps are at least partially submerged in oil. This helps to retain oil inside the pump when the engine is shut off, and makes it much faster and easier to self-prime and build oil pressure when a cold engine is started. Because of these differences, front-mounted pumps typically work best when used with lower viscosity motor oils, and with larger diameter pickup tubes and less restrictive inlet screens.

Choosing the Right Oil Pump - Engine Builder Magazine

Choosing the right oil pump for your engine build or modification process requires careful consideration. Learn the factors to consider here.

www.enginebuildermag.com

 

[knightjp]

Did you guys see this video? Putting too much oil in your pan can cost you on HP/Torque, these guys ran a test where the difference between 5 qts and 9 qts (in an 11 qt sump) cost them 60 hp. But on 5qts they lost half the oil pressure too.

How MUCH OIL is TOO MUCH? Dyno Results!

@themotoroilgeek visits Ben Strader at EFI University to talk oil – specifically the four “R”s of Lubrication: the Right Oil, in the Right Place, at the Rig...

www.youtube.com

I've seen that video. Subscribed to his channel a couple of weeks ago. He's got a few good videos.

 

[knightjp]

How would we summarize today's situation for Hemi owners?

Keep using Red Line 5W-30 (or PUP 5W-30 with lubegard) until the HPL trials are over?

Amsoil hasn't worked reliably?

Use RP biggest oil filter and/or Fram's new/old Endurance (old Utra)?

I tried Amsoil SS 5w30 and to be honest, I didn't like it. My engine was ticking heavily and noisy with it. Considering that my engine was already ticking and this was just before I replaced the lifters, maybe I should give Amsoil another try.

For me the aim of the game right now is to take my engine to over 999,999 kms and prove that the Hemi is a reliable power plant to those Toyota fanboys on the internet.
The top priority is tick prevention. I'm working on the idea that a good lubrication strategy with the right off the shelf oils will help me get here. Also I will be doing all the oil changes at 5000kms (approx 3000 miles).
So far the top contender is Redline 5w30. However it is not always available where I live and at times pretty hard to come by. So I need to find easily available alternatives.
The one oil that is readily available over here and everywhere is Mobil 1 FS 0w40. My engine sounded very smooth and, dare I say it, quieter than even when it was running RL 5w30.
Here is a video of my engine at hot idle running Mobil 1 FS 0W40.

Smooth Hemi sound

Just did an oil change with Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0w-40. This the second oil change. The previous oil was the same. Having used Mobil 1 for two oil changes...

youtu.be

This video was taken after it had done 5000kms on the M1 - just before the oil was removed and changed.
The one thing that I did not like about M1 was that it made my engine tick for 2 - 4 seconds right on the initial start up after an oil change. That was and is the only thing that I did not like about it. The price of M1 was pretty much the same as RL.
I tried Liquimoly Molygen 5w30 with the Liquimoly Hydraulic Lifter Fluid additive. That was pretty good. The engine was very smooth and quiet with that combo as well. I didn't take a video to test on whether it was just as quiet as M1. I did like that it ran smooth and quiet right from the initial start and that was perfect for me.
I'm hoping that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w40 would be another good choice and run even smoother considering it has more moly than M1 does. I'll let you know once I've tried it.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I wouldn't recommend 0W-40 without UOA. VII shears down, producing deposits.

It's too wide a viscosity range, and usually has a high 0W vis and low 40 vis to do it.
It doesn't do anything well but look good on the bottle.

Esp. Important in hot regions like yours.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

I wouldn't recommend 0W-40 without UOA. VII shears down, producing deposits.

It's too wide a viscosity range, and usually has a high 0W vis and low 40 vis to do it.
It doesn't do anything well but look good on the bottle.

Esp. Important in hot regions like yours.

I have used Mobil 1 FS 5W40 in the past and it still shows on the current website as available. Wouldn't that be a good choice?

 

[crackerjack1957]

I wouldn't recommend 0W-40 without UOA. VII shears down, producing deposits.

It's too wide a viscosity range, and usually has a high 0W vis and low 40 vis to do it.
It doesn't do anything well but look good on the bottle.

Esp. Important in hot regions like yours.

If he's changing oil everything 3k it wouldn't matter.
But then if I was changing oil at 3k it would not be synthetic unless it took 2 years to get there or I could not find a conventional that would help a noisy engine.
Goes to show how much I drive the Ram lately.

 

[Burla]

I have used Mobil 1 FS 5W40 in the past and it still shows on the current website as available. Wouldn't that be a good choice?

Not necessarily, m1 0 weight oils are best effort oils, you can see the sds and note the pao content, their 5w40 doesnt show the same levels as 0w40. Generally speaking pao is gonna be the highest quality of non ester oil for our trucks. The only possible downside to pao's would be slightly less desirable if you have a di turbo. 5w40's and 10w30's tend to have manu's not keep up with their formulas the same way as other weights as they dont spec in most applications. I dont even know where 5w40 would spec, maybe some euro diesels, dunno. Manu's arent putting the same effort in those formulas, those off weights.

 

[ramffml]

The reason why Hemi will rattle on startup after sitting for long periods unless moly or other types of protective coatings are in oil.

Choosing the Right Oil Pump - Engine Builder Magazine

Choosing the right oil pump for your engine build or modification process requires careful consideration. Learn the factors to consider here.

www.enginebuildermag.com

Here is another data point: my truck doesn't ever rattle on startup, unless:
- it's cold outside
- I start up, drive 5 miles, shut down engine at oil temp < 50 C
- start it up again an 1.5+ later

That combination will make it rattle like clockwork every time, but I don't remember the last time it did it without that combo.

Doesn't matter what oil I use (redline, mobil 1, hpl), doesn't matter what filter I use (mopar, royal purple, fram ultra), if its freezing out and I don't get the oil hot enough it will rattle if started up again after 60+ minutes.

There could be other combinations too, this is the only one that does it that I'm aware of because it happens once a week as I always head to that same location.

But if I remote start it in the winter, get it to 20+ degrees before setting off, then shut it down at 60+ C it won't rattle.

Edit: I've also tried other combinations, like keeping it above 2000+ rpms for the duration of the drive (as much as possible), or enabling/disabling MDS, but it really seems to be related to the heat of the oil. It's a curious one for sure.

 

[ramffml]

I tried Amsoil SS 5w30 and to be honest, I didn't like it. My engine was ticking heavily and noisy with it. Considering that my engine was already ticking and this was just before I replaced the lifters, maybe I should give Amsoil another try.

For me the aim of the game right now is to take my engine to over 999,999 kms and prove that the Hemi is a reliable power plant to those Toyota fanboys on the internet.
The top priority is tick prevention. I'm working on the idea that a good lubrication strategy with the right off the shelf oils will help me get here. Also I will be doing all the oil changes at 5000kms (approx 3000 miles).
So far the top contender is Redline 5w30. However it is not always available where I live and at times pretty hard to come by. So I need to find easily available alternatives.
The one oil that is readily available over here and everywhere is Mobil 1 FS 0w40. My engine sounded very smooth and, dare I say it, quieter than even when it was running RL 5w30.
Here is a video of my engine at hot idle running Mobil 1 FS 0W40.

Smooth Hemi sound

Just did an oil change with Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0w-40. This the second oil change. The previous oil was the same. Having used Mobil 1 for two oil changes...

youtu.be

This video was taken after it had done 5000kms on the M1 - just before the oil was removed and changed.
The one thing that I did not like about M1 was that it made my engine tick for 2 - 4 seconds right on the initial start up after an oil change. That was and is the only thing that I did not like about it. The price of M1 was pretty much the same as RL.
I tried Liquimoly Molygen 5w30 with the Liquimoly Hydraulic Lifter Fluid additive. That was pretty good. The engine was very smooth and quiet with that combo as well. I didn't take a video to test on whether it was just as quiet as M1. I did like that it ran smooth and quiet right from the initial start and that was perfect for me.
I'm hoping that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w40 would be another good choice and run even smoother considering it has more moly than M1 does. I'll let you know once I've tried it.

You've sure had a rough go of it with lifter failure, hopefully that's behind you. Video sounds nice and smooth as far as I can tell.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I have used Mobil 1 FS 5W40 in the past and it still shows on the current website as available. Wouldn't that be a good choice?

Yes

 

[crackerjack1957]

Here is another data point: my truck doesn't ever rattle on startup, unless:
- it's cold outside
- I start up, drive 5 miles, shut down engine at oil temp < 50 C
- start it up again an 1.5+ later

That combination will make it rattle like clockwork every time, but I don't remember the last time it did it without that combo.

Doesn't matter what oil I use (redline, mobil 1, hpl), doesn't matter what filter I use (mopar, royal purple, fram ultra), if its freezing out and I don't get the oil hot enough it will rattle if started up again after 60+ minutes.

There could be other combinations too, this is the only one that does it that I'm aware of because it happens once a week as I always head to that same location.

But if I remote start it in the winter, get it to 20+ degrees before setting off, then shut it down at 60+ C it won't rattle.

Edit: I've also tried other combinations, like keeping it above 2000+ rpms for the duration of the drive (as much as possible), or enabling/disabling MDS, but it really seems to be related to the heat of the oil. It's a curious one for sure.

Why not let it warmup just enough before driving if you have already proven it works.
Sounds like you are starting engine & driving immediately.
Maybe invest in an oil pan heater if idling engine to warm up not what you want.

Heat thins out oil also so if you saying oil temp being low is an issue you probably need to run 0W-20
Personally I would have a heater vs thinner weight oil

 

[Travis8352]

Additives do work best with heat so that could be it

 

[ramffml]

Why not let it warmup just enough before driving if you have already proven it works.
Sounds like you are starting engine & driving immediately.
Maybe invest in an oil pan heater if idling engine to warm up not what you want.

Heat thins out oil also so if you saying oil temp being low is an issue you probably need to run 0W-20
Personally I would have a heater vs thinner weight oil

Appreciate the suggestion. I'm running 5w-20 right now on the suggestion of my mechanic (he wanted to know if it helped with ping, it doesn't). No apparent difference when it comes to viscosity.

I don't like to idle it because of the "you shall not idle your hemi" rule thats on all hemi tick threads. I personally don't feel that idling causes tick, but I do minimize idling ... just in case. I have less than 100 idle hours at 60,000 miles and almost 5 years of ownership. Not too shaby, only reason it's even that high is due to the remote starts in the winter.

An oil pan heater is probably the way to go though, agree completely.

 

[ramffml]

Additives do work best with heat so that could be it

What about the anti drain back valve? Somebody here once said that the heat makes the valve seat better (or something along those lines), ever since I read that I started paying attention to my oil temps and that's how I got to that observation that I need at lest 60 degrees or so.

 

[Burla]

Jesus juice = yuk?

I've been known to drink a good malbec but mixed with dr pepper, nah thanks.

 

[knightjp]

I wouldn't recommend 0W-40 without UOA. VII shears down, producing deposits.

It's too wide a viscosity range, and usually has a high 0W vis and low 40 vis to do it.
It doesn't do anything well but look good on the bottle.

Esp. Important in hot regions like yours.

Isn't 0w40 the recommended oil for the 6.4 Hemi?

 

[crackerjack1957]

Appreciate the suggestion. I'm running 5w-20 right now on the suggestion of my mechanic (he wanted to know if it helped with ping, it doesn't). No apparent difference when it comes to viscosity.

I don't like to idle it because of the "you shall not idle your hemi" rule thats on all hemi tick threads. I personally don't feel that idling causes tick, but I do minimize idling ... just in case. I have less than 100 idle hours at 60,000 miles and almost 5 years of ownership. Not too shaby, only reason it's even that high is due to the remote starts in the winter.

An oil pan heater is probably the way to go though, agree completely.

Agree with idle time, that's why mine is bumped to 750rpm@idle.
Doesn't take long for warmup in NC either.

Ping you say, so the thinner weight didn't help with VVT.
Ping in the summer months only with normal operating temps or constant even when cooler?
Octane rating you run?
Have your mechanic to look at combustion chamber for carbon deposits with borescope.

 

[Travis8352]

How many have run 5w40 redline in a 6.4? Or 5.7? 15.6 cst and 4.4 HTHS... wow