Synthetic Oil

[Motoman501]

I also bit the bullet and went to Costco this morning.....Paid $4.49 for regular. It's painful pulling the new 5th wheel at 7-9 mpg.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

Within 3 weeks time gas prices here went from 4.29 to 5.99 no kidding. Where will it stop?

story here, now most of cali is rural, but if you live in a population center such as I do in the bay area, the numbers are far worse. it is indeed up nearly 2 bucks in 3 wee

I also bit the bullet and went to Costco this morning.....Paid $4.49 for regular. It's painful pulling the new 5th wheel at 7-9 mpg.

SOOOOOO ...

My local Costco, as of this afternoon is $0.27 more per liter for premium 91 than their regular 87.

This is a FN first in my many years living in Ancaster, Ontario, Canada seeing this type of increase for regular 87 vs premium 91 at this or any Costco.

Costco was always between $0.10 and $0.15 more per liter for premium vs regular previously.

Corporate greed at its finest!
Our d_i..C_k.... t-a...T_O..r is sitting high on this one, no doubt!

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'm not sure if Rotella is for Petrol or Diesel engines. I'm guessing it is for Diesel. The manual states to use Pennzoil or Shell Helix. So if you are going with a Shell branded product, I would get Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 or 5W40.
However I would prefer using something like Redline.

Diesel.
Lots of soot dispersant additive not needed for gasoline engines.

 

[06 Dodge]

I'm not sure if Rotella is for Petrol or Diesel engines. I'm guessing it is for Diesel. The manual states to use Pennzoil or Shell Helix. So if you are going with a Shell branded product, I would get Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 or 5W40.
However I would prefer using something like Redline.

The last time I looked at Rotella T-6 5w40 it was still API rated SM for gas engines, until 2010 I used it in all my Mopar gas engines that used 5w oil... Here is Shells information on the newer 5w30 T-6: Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 Full Syntheticis uniquely suited for mixed fleets which run bothdiesel and gasoline vehicles as it meets both API CK-4and API SN performance standards.

 

[knightjp]

Say someone wants to find a good oil for his Hemi.
Redline sometimes an option, depending on availability. Now there's not a lot of choice in terms of substitutes because nothing has the additives like Redline and HPL is really not available at all. So, looking through an oil's VOA, how does someone determine that this particular oil will be good for the HEMI? What are the additives that one should look for and what are the minimum requirements?

 

[ramffml]

Say someone wants to find a good oil for his Hemi.
Redline sometimes an option, depending on availability. Now there's not a lot of choice in terms of substitutes because nothing has the additives like Redline and HPL is really not available at all. So, looking through an oil's VOA, how does someone determine that this particular oil will be good for the HEMI? What are the additives that one should look for and what are the minimum requirements?

Can you get Mobil 1 fs 0w-40? That would be my third choice after the two you listed based strictly on expert opinions here and bitog, and notably David from HPL who has commented that that M1 0w-40 oil performs very well especially given the price; I forget his exact words but something along the lines of "almost too good for the price".

 

[White six four]

I use that stuff in my diesel. I believe its CK-4. Are you sure you should put it in a gasoline engine?

After getting a somewhat older polaris (04) atv and looking online since polaris recommends all sorts of unicorn oils throughout their machines, a lot of guys run rotella t6 5w40 for diesels in them. I've been running it for the past 6 years now in mine and also run it in my swisher pull behind mower.

 

[turkeybird56]

OK - bit the bullet and went to Costco this morning - got there before 10 AM so it was only half jammed with confused old ladies.

$3.599 for Top Tier Premium (91 octane) with mandatory 10% ethanol via MN State Bribe, er, Law.

Basically same price here in Central TX for 91

 

[knightjp]

Can you get Mobil 1 fs 0w-40? That would be my third choice after the two you listed based strictly on expert opinions here and bitog, and notably David from HPL who has commented that that M1 0w-40 oil performs very well especially given the price; I forget his exact words but something along the lines of "almost too good for the price".

I concur. It is really good. I've run Mobil 1 FS 0w40. The one thing that I didn't like about it was that after the oil change, the engine would tick for 2 - 3 seconds and then it would be fine.
In fact, this is a video of my engine running Mobil 1 FS 0w40 on hot idle.

Smooth Hemi sound

Just did an oil change with Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic 0w-40. This the second oil change. The previous oil was the same. Having used Mobil 1 for two oil changes...

youtu.be

Anther combo I've run is Liquimoly Molygen 5W30 and LM Hydraulic Lifter Fluid. No tick on initial start up and the engine sounds the same on hot idle.
In terms of price Mobil 1 and RL are the same here. When the local dealer was out, I tried importing RL myself and that was an expensive exercise. Won't do that again.

Considering I change my oil every 5000 kms (approx 3000 miles), I was thinking that there must be cheaper alternatives.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Anyone can promulgate the narrative for their product.... Let me explain...
On a few occasions I had Ford Powerstroke owners (7.3L) come to me with a "slipping transmission/low performance" complaint. In all instances, they had changed their own oil and installed 5W30 Rotella in these engines.

Doing diligence, I scanned the computer, specifically looking ac ICP parameters. In all cases, the readings were all over the place and at WOT, they were very low/ unstable.

In one case, the owner just KNEW his transmission was at fault and was prepared to spend multi thousands of dollars for a new trans.

I called the man and asked if he had changed his oil and filter (evidenced by a new filter and relatively clean oil) to which he answered to the affirmative.

Being that the oil seemed mighty thin, I asked what weight he'd used and he said that he'd used 5W30 Rotella.
I informed him that the requirement was for 15W40, to which he dug in his heels and rebutted my statement.

He was totally convinced that the trans was slipping, and stated so. I responded that I'd like to change the oil to the 15W40, and offered that, if that didn't fix it, that he got a free oil and filter change, to which he agreed.

It fixed not only that truck but several others beyond.

I could have been a crook and put a reman trans in the truck and quietly changed the oil, and he would have happily paid for a very expensive repair that was totally unnecessary. Gee, I wonder how often THAT happens?!

This goes back to following manufacturers' mandates for certain specified maintenance requirements for their vehicles. Ya think, maybe, their billion dollar R&D departments might trump aftermarket "wisdom"???

Food for thought!

The last time I looked at Rotella T-6 5w40 it was still API rated SM for gas engines, until 2010 I used it in all my Mopar gas engines that used 5w oil... Here is Shells information on the newer 5w30 T-6: Shell ROTELLA® T6 Multi-Vehicle 5W-30 Full Syntheticis uniquely suited for mixed fleets which run bothdiesel and gasoline vehicles as it meets both API CK-4and API SN performance standards.

ne can promulgate

 

[tjfdesmo]

Anyone can promulgate the narrative for their product.... Let me explain...
On a few occasions I had Ford Powerstroke owners (7.3L) come to me with a "slipping transmission/low performance" complaint. In all instances, they had changed their own oil and installed 5W30 Rotella in these engines.

Doing diligence, I scanned the computer, specifically looking ac ICP parameters. In all cases, the readings were all over the place and at WOT, they were very low/ unstable.

In one case, the owner just KNEW his transmission was at fault and was prepared to spend multi thousands of dollars for a new trans.

I called the man and asked if he had changed his oil and filter (evidenced by a new filter and relatively clean oil) to which he answered to the affirmative.

Being that the oil seemed mighty thin, I asked what weight he'd used and he said that he'd used 5W30 Rotella.
I informed him that the requirement was for 15W40, to which he dug in his heels and rebutted my statement.

He was totally convinced that the trans was slipping, and stated so. I responded that I'd like to change the oil to the 15W40, and offered that, if that didn't fix it, that he got a free oil and filter change, to which he agreed.

It fixed not only that truck but several others beyond.

I could have been a crook and put a reman trans in the truck and quietly changed the oil, and he would have happily paid for a very expensive repair that was totally unnecessary. Gee, I wonder how often THAT happens?!

This goes back to following manufacturers' mandates for certain specified maintenance requirements for their vehicles. Ya think, maybe, their billion dollar R&D departments might trump aftermarket "wisdom"???

Food for thought!



ne can promulgate

True enough, but more related to sensitivity of the silly HEUI injectors and high pressure oil pump setup.

 

[White six four]

certain

Thats the key word. The "lifetime" fluids are bs and so is spec'ing a lighter oil 0w20 to appease the epa. The bean counters (to save money) over rule the engineers in a lot of cases.

 

[knightjp]

Thats the key word. The "lifetime" fluids are bs and so is spec'ing a lighter oil 0w20 to appease the epa. The bean counters (to save money) over rule the engineers in a lot of cases.

The bean counters often gain the upper hand because they pay the engineer's salaries.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Off topic but I understood HEUI was very sensitive to engine oil viscosity and ran best with 10W-30. My son still has one and runs 5W-40 without issue here on the wild temperature swing tundra.
It wasn't silly at the time. It was the first variable injection timing system for wide torque band. Caterpillar was co inventor and used it successfully for many years.

 

[ramffml]

Thats the key word. The "lifetime" fluids are bs and so is spec'ing a lighter oil 0w20 to appease the epa. The bean counters (to save money) over rule the engineers in a lot of cases.

I particularly like it when FCA says "lifetime fill" but ZF who actually builds the thing says "replace every 80k miles" or whatever it is.

Guess it's not quite as simple as "just do what FCA says".

 

[knightjp]

Guess it's not quite as simple as "just do what FCA says".

I learned that the hard way.

 

[ramffml]

Anyone can promulgate the narrative for their product.... Let me explain...

...

This goes back to following manufacturers' mandates for certain specified maintenance requirements for their vehicles. Ya think, maybe, their billion dollar R&D departments might trump aftermarket "wisdom"???

Food for thought!

While one may opt to employ an extensive lexicon replete with grandiloquent expressions, it remains incontrovertibly evident that regardless of linguistic embellishments, the veracity of correctness persists immutable, for erroneousness knows no linguistic bounds.

(courtesty of chatgpt)

 

[Burla]

Question for the oil guru's, if you add 5w20 to a 5w30 it changes the viscosity yes? What about the winter rating? How can you add a thinner oil to a heavier oil and NOT change the winter rating? The cold pump for a 20 weight is different then the 30 weight to achieve the winter ratings. If you want to make the 5w30 redline better at cold piston slap would not 5w20 redline added to it do the same exact thing as changing it to a 0w30? Yes you could always opt for the 0w20 redline as it would add vii's that 0w30 also has, and 5w20 does not, but wouldn't making an oil thinner however you chose to do it effect the cold performance and would that not change the winter ratings? Until we find an answer for what redline did to their 0w30, isn't this the best choice? 0w30 redline was substantially better at avoiding cold piston slap?

 

[ramffml]

Question for the oil guru's, if you add 5w20 to a 5w30 it changes the viscosity yes? What about the winter rating? How can you add a thinner oil to a heavier oil and NOT change the winter rating? The cold pump for a 20 weight is different then the 30 weight to achieve the winter ratings. If you want to make the 5w30 redline better at cold piston slap would not 5w20 redline added to it do the same exact thing as changing it to a 0w30? Yes you could always opt for the 0w20 redline as it would add vii's that 0w30 also has, and 5w20 does not, but wouldn't making an oil thinner however you chose to do it effect the cold performance and would that not change the winter ratings? Until we find an answer for what redline did to their 0w30, isn't this the best choice? 0w30 redline was substantially better at avoiding cold piston slap?

I'm not a guru in the slightest but my understanding is that the base weight is 0w and they add VII's to thicken it which activate as the temps increase. So adding two 0w's together is still starting from the same base weight of "0w". The vii ratios change though, so thats how we get a 20 or 25 or 30 depending on the amount of viis in the final mix.

I could very well be wrong!

 

[HEMIMANN]

Question for the oil guru's, if you add 5w20 to a 5w30 it changes the viscosity yes? What about the winter rating? How can you add a thinner oil to a heavier oil and NOT change the winter rating? The cold pump for a 20 weight is different then the 30 weight to achieve the winter ratings. If you want to make the 5w30 redline better at cold piston slap would not 5w20 redline added to it do the same exact thing as changing it to a 0w30? Yes you could always opt for the 0w20 redline as it would add vii's that 0w30 also has, and 5w20 does not, but wouldn't making an oil thinner however you chose to do it effect the cold performance and would that not change the winter ratings? Until we find an answer for what redline did to their 0w30, isn't this the best choice? 0w30 redline was substantially better at avoiding cold piston slap?

You know as well as any of us it depends what vis the base oil is within the SAE vis grade bandwidth, as well as the type of base oil (which determines the viscosity index slope) and VII additive.

You know we can't answer that via an SAE vis grading system alone, regardless of oil seller. We must have some typical properties specific to each seller to be able to make an initial assessment.