Tires for Towing (yes, another tire thread)

[corneileous]

The Defenders are just a bit heavier, most if it is tread depth. But that will hurt city mpg more than highway.
The real plus for most D or E equivalents is the ability to resist punctures - SRA's puncture very easily.

I don’t think it’s the tread, it’s that there’s more rubber that makes up the weight. I mean what, we’re probably talking a difference of around an 1/8th of an inch in tread depth?

But yeah, I get it, the SRA’s, and even my Michelin Defenders would puncture more easily but that goes back towards more of where you’re gonna be driving it. Even the 10-ply Defenders might not be the best off-road choice but there are still places that tire could go that would still shred the P-rated version.

I never ran my Defenders up to 80 psi, there just isn't any need to run that high since the axle rating is significantly lower.
I did run 55-60 psi often, which firms things up but still gives a good ride with weight on them.

Well no, and I’m not saying they need to be ran that high for weight concerns but they still need that higher pressure.

I myself personally would never run a 10-ply anything on my truck but if I did a lot of towing, an 8-ply is far more than all anyone should ever need and for that, I’d inflate it to the max when I towed because taking an OEM-sized BFG all terrain for example, max load at 65psi is 3000 pounds. That’s only 320 pounds less than my max-aired Michelin defenders.

But see, lol, if there’s not a reason to even air a 10 ply up to its max pressure, then that just even more proves that a 10-ply on a half-ton is overkill unless it’s there strictly for off-road purposes.

Look at it this way, take an SRA, run it up to the limit at 44 psi then you take a weighted down truck ( most likely bed has stuff in it as well as the trailer weight and force), now go around bends at highway speed during the hot summer daytime (which generates significant heat). The side loading force goes up pretty quickly at highway speed, really stressing the tire.

Would you rather have a maxed out SRA or similar under you or a D or E rated tire running at 60-70% capacity?
It isn't the static even load that I worry about, it is the side load at speed where I want a better tire.

I guess if you towed absolutely that much and didn’t mind the more truck-like ride then I guess I have to agree with you on that but in all seriousness, I really don’t think it’s all that necessary. But that’s just me. I’m not saying a LT tire is bad for towing, so don’t assume that, I just don’t think the sacrificed ride, mileage and extra cost of the tire justifies the need.

I have an Outdoorsman that came with Goodyear wrangers w/kevlar E-Load tires. My minimum psi to turn off the low tire light is 43 psi.

I guess that’s about right, I mean, I wonder what GoodYear would say to run those at compared to what BFG told me to run the all terrains I had which was 55, with a minimum of no less than 50. Before I got rid of them, I settled on 50 in the front and 45 in the back. That was about the best I could find that made the comfort level go up a little bit but at the same time, didn’t make the tires feel overly soft and under inflated whenever I had to take a curve, or slam on the brakes when they were only inflated to 39.

It Ive yet to tow anything heavy with my Defenders but like I said several posts ago, I didn’t experience any side to side sway with the original SRA’s that came on my old truck when I pulled that heavy Uhaul over 700 miles. Didn’t even had the rear tires aired to 44, either. They were still at 36 which was the recommended tire pressure for that truck.


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[No Tyme]

I felt the same towards P rated tires and I went this time with Cooper AT3 XLT (LT, E-rated) tires and I honestly felt no difference in the ride and so far (1 month) see no drop in fuel mileage. I also have a 19 BH Classic Crew with 6.4 bed and same rear.
The one differance is I went with 275 65 R 20's just a tad taller tires. Sill getting between 17 & 18 city driving.

 

[pacofortacos]

There's less than 10 lbs difference between the LT Defenders and P Defender - which isn't a lot.
About 2/32" more tread depth which doesn't seem like much except it is the entire outer circumference of the tire. Probably a bit stronger belting system.
Pretty soft sidewall on the LT Defender, I would say the same between LT and P - which is why the LT still rides really soft at lower pressures and to be honest not even that rough with higher pressure.

I agree D & E-load is overkill unless you need the puncture resistance for off road.

I currently have the X-Load Generals on which call for 51 psi max and carry almost 3000 lbs.

I tow my boat from PA to FL on the interstate at 70+ mph in the heat of the summer, I like not being maxed out as far as the tires (truck and trailer tires). Probably not needed but it gives me the warm and fuzzies

I have considered just using the P Defenders next time in the stock 275/60/20 size vs. the LT version in other sizes.

The quietness of the Continental tires keeps calling me too though. Lol Quietest tire I have ever seen on my son's Jeep - even quieter than the Defenders he has on there now.
The way the Defenders just last and last is amazing though, even on his Jeep and the Ram.

 

[Welderguy]

Background first: 2019 1500 Classic Crew Cab, 4x4, 6'4" bed, 5.7L Hemi, 3.21 gears, Hellwig Sway bar, Airlift 1000s
Trailer: 28' box (35 tip to tail), 72-7300lb loaded, Equilizer WDH dialed in for my current setup

The truck/trailer combo pulls fine, sway is minimal for a 1/2 ton pulling that large of a wind sail.

Problem: Still have the stock 275/60R20 SR-Ass on it. They handle like crap when unloaded when there is even the hint of rain or high humidity in the air, let alone the snow here in MN. I don't fully trust them with the truck/camper loaded up ready for a long weekend to grip/hold up/keep the truck pointed in the right direction. I've had enough of them after 14-ish months and (almost) 14k miles.

I've always run P-rated tires on my trucks, even when towing and have not had issue, but I hadn't tried this large of a trailer until last season. I'm very conflicted on which direction to go on tires, whether to stick with my P-rated tires or step up to a D/E rated just for the piece of mind. Deep down, I know the load rated 115 tires that I'm looking at would be more than enough weight capacity, but the extra sidewall on the D/E-rated wouldn't be a bad thing either.

I'm struggling to justify to myself and the Mrs. about spending $2-300+ more for a set of LT tires that will (theoretically) get worse gas mileage and be a rougher ride for something that I pull heavy with usually 16-20 (8-10 camping trips) times a year and is my daily driver. I'm fairly confident anything I get will be a (much needed) improvement over the SR-Ass on there currently.

Question: Help me spend my money. I know in other parts of the forum, members have said they love their Falkens, but have you towed heavy with them in stock size?

Want to stick with stock size tire on the stock 20" rim
Currently looking at
Cooper AT3 4S (P-rated) @$826
Cooper AT3 XLT (LT, E-rated) @$1063
BFG KO2 (LT, D-rated) @$1150
Falken Wildpeak (P-rated) @$906
Firestone Destination XT (LT, E-rated) @$1296

 

[Welderguy]

Chopper here. I have run 10 ply Cooper Tires for years towing campers up to 9500#. I would not run anything else. As far as gas millage is concerned I have not noticed any difference. I just drove my 2012 Ram 2500, 5.7 Hemi to Niagra Falls NY. From Brookville, Pa. and averaged 17 MPG. I think that is great for a truck that size and the fact that all that driving way not highway. Lots of small towns and speed changes. I hope that you find this helpful.

 

[NorZeman]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for the replies and insights. This is a good discussion to have, and please keep it going, hopefully it can help out some others moving forward.

Full disclosure, I set up an appointment with my tire guy for Tuesday to put a set of the Cooper XLTs on, the deal I was getting through them was ending tomorrow.

I'm with some other members on here that feel it is a bit of overkill for a 1500, but I liked the look of them and am willing to give an LT a go for the first time on one of my trucks

So thanks for helping me spend my money!



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[SOLER]

With these coil spring rear suspension, the ride is great...until you hook up a trailer. Combine that with crappy C rated tires like the SRAs, and towing is un-fun. At 20k miles, I got rid of the BadYear SRAs (surprised I waited that long) and put Cooper Discoverer AT3s. Love these tires. 90k on the ticker, and the tires look like I'm going to get another 20k at least. Fuel mileage is negligible. I also stepped up in size from 275 60 20 to 275 65 20. Just a little bit taller. These do ride a little stiffer, but I don't mind. I also keep them inflated to 60-70 psi. I don't mind that it rides a little stiffer. And it's not a lot, just enough that I notice. Again, the coil springs are nice. With these tires (or just about any E rated tire) I don't fret too much when towing. And these Coopers, back in Jan of 2016 were $1066.00. Cheaper than Michelins, and I think better. They are rated at 55k miles, and I'm at 70k. Really got my $$'s worth. I like them so much, I put them on wife's 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Put Coopers on her new Grand Cherokee, but XLTs since I couldn't get E rated ATPs in the correct size for this Jeep. Still great tires.

I've had enough problems with trailer tires, that I ALWAYS step up to an E rated (or better) tire. I have a boat that came with 14" tires. I put 15s on it so I could get E rated tires. My flat bed trailers, one single axle, and one dual axle with one brake axle had crappy tires on them. Changed the 5-on-5" hubs to 6-on-5.5" and put E rated tires on both of them. Way more than needed, but I don't worry about them anymore. I've got a 16 foot gooseneck dump trailer that the 16 inch wheels are coming off so I can put 17 inch on and get G or H rated tires on it. I always want way more than needed, so I don't have to worry.

 

[Razzman]

After driving around on the KO2s for a couple of days I can honestly say they're not bad for ride, far less than i expected. Surprisingly the wife says "I like the ride, always felt mushy before and feels safer", so there's my validation in part. For me it's all about safety, I know I don't have to be concerned about tires when towing. Do I think it's overkill? Maybe a bit but i could care less, I'm not a numbers guy and don't check charts and specs to see what weights match what. Sturdier tire, done. As for why they put P rated tires on trucks? Easy, they want them to ride as smooth as possible for the consumer. Most people want that plush ride, especially those with higher trim trucks. Add to that a lot of trucks don't actually get used as a truck. In '07 I bought a new GMC Sierra Classic SLT CC 4X4 only because I got it for dealer cost, totally loaded for $28K, and because I didn't like (still don't) the look of 3rd Gen Dodges. Worst truck i ever had (another story), anyway GMC put P rated tires on those as well, unless you had the tow package then it came with LT tires. Smart move and covered their butts.

 

[corneileous]

After driving around on the KO2s for a couple of days I can honestly say they're not bad for ride, far less than i expected. Surprisingly the wife says "I like the ride, always felt mushy before and feels safer", so there's my validation in part. For me it's all about safety, I know I don't have to be concerned about tires when towing. Do I think it's overkill? Maybe a bit but i could care less, I'm not a numbers guy and don't check charts and specs to see what weights match what. Sturdier tire, done. As for why they put P rated tires on trucks? Easy, they want them to ride as smooth as possible for the consumer. Most people want that plush ride, especially those with higher trim trucks. In '07 I bought a new GMC Sierra Classic SLT CC 4X4 only because I got it for dealer cost, totally loaded for $28K, and because I didn't like (still don't) the look of 3rd Gen Dodges. Worst truck i ever had (another story), anyway GMC put P rated tires on those as well, unless you had the tow package then it came with LT tires. Smart move and covered their butts.

It’s probably geared more for a plush ride but in my opinion, it’s more for economy and the biggest thing of all, it’s more for what half-tons have evolved to. Most people don’t buy half-tons for towing, or for work; they buy them for the same reasons that people would buy a large SUV.

And as far as what you said about that GMC with a tow package, that may be true or partially true but again, if you think about it, whether or not a LT tire would provide a much safer ride for a 10,000+ pound trailer, those P-rated tires are still going to get the job done within the limits of the truck their mounted to.

And who knows- it is very subjective on what who considers a smooth ride- what’s acceptable to me may be totally different to someone else. And sometimes I wonder if my differing opinion towards ride quality might be influenced a lot more due to the fact that my truck has the four corner air ride and not spring ride. As far as the ride quality compared to my old 08, it’s a difference of night and day but, when I was researching my new pickup, I never cared to test drive a new truck that had the coil spring suspension because I knew right away that the air ride was what I wanted because like I said, the air ride on both my new truck and the 2017 Laramie Longhorn 1500 that I test drove was just no comparison to the ride on my old truck.

But who knows; if the ride quality had improved that much on the newer Ram 1500’s with rear coils over the traditional rear leafs, my experience with those 8-ply BFG’s might’ve been a little better. I’ve heard that those rear coils are more of a progressive coil, and whether that’s true or not, I think it’s pretty safe to say that my air ride is probably not going to react to bumps the same way that even a progressive coil would because based on any given different load that may be on my truck, my air suspension is constantly changing due to the fact that it is designed from the factory to be constantly leveling and adjusting itself.

But hey, if you’re happy with your tires and you’re happy with the ride that they give then that’s awesome. That’s all that matters.


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[sam darakjy]

I am no towing expert but I am really surprised once you started towing that amount of weight you did not switch to an LT immediately. That would have been a great reason to rid yourself of those SRA's also.

 

[NorZeman]

I am no towing expert but I am really surprised once you started towing that amount of weight you did not switch to an LT immediately. That would have been a great reason to rid yourself of those SRA's also.

Started pulling that weight about 3 weeks after I upgraded my truck, took me another year+ to convince the boss that new tires were a requirement.

As has been discussed, the stock tires have a 114 load rating with the max payload, axle, and tow ratings fitting in at that tire's load rating. You shouldn't need to go any higher than that load rating, IMO to be "safe". If you do, your overloading every other part of the truck.

The SRAs actually did fine while pulling, again IMO, had my WDH dialed in and the tires actually did better while pulling than while empty. Get to see this weekend if making the jump up to an LT makes a difference for me personally. Will be checking my WDH setup again after the new shoes go on.

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[corneileous]

I am no towing expert but I am really surprised once you started towing that amount of weight you did not switch to an LT immediately. That would have been a great reason to rid yourself of those SRA's also.

Man, every time I read one of these comments like this is why I really wished that that day when I pulled that U-Haul trailer behind my old truck on those four-year-old factory SRA’s that I would’ve stopped by a cat scale and weighed my truck just to see how much that trailer weighed but it just never crossed my mind, and I knew it was heavy. Still didn’t really even feel like it was back there, but it sure showed in my fuel mileage because I think the best mileage I ever got on that whole 750 mile trip was probably about 11 mpg.


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[corneileous]

Started pulling that weight about 3 weeks after I upgraded my truck, took me another year+ to convince the boss that new tires were a requirement.

As has been discussed, the stock tires have a 114 load rating with the max payload, axle, and tow ratings fitting in at that tire's load rating. You shouldn't need to go any higher than that load rating, IMO to be "safe". If you do, your overloading every other part of the truck.

The SRAs actually did fine while pulling, again IMO, had my WDH dialed in and the tires actually did better while pulling than while empty. Get to see this weekend if making the jump up to an LT makes a difference for me personally. Will be checking my WDH setup again after the new shoes go on.

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There’s no doubt in my mind that those 10 ply tires you bought will in fact make you feel a difference in load stability because that’s just the nature of the beast between your new tires and your factory ones. It’s just like how when some people say that they do feel a difference in performance and mileage by running 93 octane in a vehicle that’s only program to run 87, but it still isn’t enough of a difference to justify the higher cost of that fuel. Or like, which I’m not saying it’s a bad idea to do this, I’m just saying it out of principle that like spending all that money on upgrading your lubricants to synthetic, clearly out of the premise of better mileage. Sure, you’ll get better economy but the amount of gas you save isn’t going to no where near justify the higher cost of of those lubricants if all you’re doing it for is to spend less at the gas pump.

Same thing goes for a tire that’s more designed to go on a heavy duty three quarter ton; will it help? Sure, but it’s not necessary when you weigh in the loss of mileage, loss of ride comfort and increase in cost of the tires when the cheaper P rated ones will do just fine.


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[rsdata]

it would be hard to beat the Michelin Defender LT265/60/20.
They are quiet, don't cost mpg, wear like iron and pretty decent in all weather

I agree 100% have had same now for 60K miles and expect another 10K... I tow about 5,000# aired to 42# all the time tow or not.

 

[corneileous]

it would be hard to beat the Michelin Defender LT265/60/20.
They are quiet, don't cost mpg, wear like iron and pretty decent in all weather

I agree 100% have had same now for 60K miles and expect another 10K... I tow about 5,000# aired to 42# all the time tow or not.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if those tires were in fact still pretty quiet, wore like iron, still did pretty good in all weather conditions and didn’t cost too awful much in mileage just from the more weight alone but I would still question the ride quality because I seriously doubt Michelin would agree with you on your chosen pressure because if that’s a ten ply tire then you really should have a whole lot more air than that in those. BFG told me that my 8-ply all terrains were considered dangerously low at 39 pounds of pressure and that’s really not too far less from your preferred pressure of 42 psi in an even heavier tire but hey, I guess if it works for you and hasn’t yielded in a failed tire from under-inflation then I guess it works.

Update....
I took the liberty of calling up Michelin because I was curious but as it turns out, since those LT265/60s that you run are smaller than factory, the guy wouldn’t tell me what the recommended pressure should be with those tires but since the LT275/65s are a little bit taller, same width, he said that their recommendation for pressures for those tires was no less than 45psi all the way around. I think it would be safe to assume that this would apply to your tires as well…

I thought that was a little odd considering that BFG told me no less than 55 for a load range D tire but I guess maybe that has something to do with the fact that those were off-road tires and these are more of a street tire, I guess.


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[rvance]

I had the E-rated KO2s on my 13 RC to replace the SRAs and the ride and handling was much better than the OEMs but my gas mileage dropped by 4 mpg and I had a long commute. I went to a Michelin AT that claimed low rolling resistance to try to get the milage back up. It didn't work and they didn't feel any different from the KO2s, except for stopping in rain, where they were much better. I have Ironman tires that came on my 17 QC and they are surprisingly good. I've been towing a 2800 lb trailer for most of the 10k miles and they handle it great. Single axle with 550lb tongue weight and a 200lb topper.

 

[corneileous]

I had the E-rated KO2s on my 13 RC to replace the SRAs and the ride and handling was much better than the OEMs but my gas mileage dropped by 4 mpg and I had a long commute. I went to a Michelin AT that claimed low rolling resistance to try to get the milage back up. It didn't work and they didn't feel any different from the KO2s, except for stopping in rain, where they were much better. I have Ironman tires that came on my 17 QC and they are surprisingly good. I've been towing a 2800 lb trailer for most of the 10k miles and they handle it great. Single axle with 550lb tongue weight and a 200lb topper.

What was the size of your E rated KO/2’s? At what pressure did you run? I mean, like I always say, I know this is all subjective because everybody’s opinion when it comes to how smooth their truck rides on whatever set of tires is purely different from one person to the next but how can you say those E rated tires rode and handled so much better than your factory stock GoodYears? Even my P rated Michelin defenders don’t ride as smooth as the factory-stock good years I had but how can you say they rode better and handled better all in the same sentence when my experience with an eight ply of that tire was way different?

The only way I could ever get better handling, braking and cornering was the air the tires up to what BFG said to air them up to but the ride quality really went out the window at that point..... and the only way to get the tires to ride even remotely close to as smooth as the goodyears did was to air them back down to 39 pounds of pressure but at that point, they didn’t handle, brake and corner worth a ****. They seriously felt like they were extremely under- inflated and not to mention, on a really long drive they seem to have gotten a lot hotter than usual and on a hot summer day, the pressure would go up dramatically from 39 cold to about 45, 46 psi hot so even that right there was a sign that the tires were under-inflated.

But camper shell or not, I wouldn’t think you’ve got your trailer loaded properly if it only weighs 2800 pounds and you’ve got over 500 pounds of tongue weight.


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[NorZeman]

There’s no doubt in my mind that those 10 ply tires you bought will in fact make you feel a difference in load stability because that’s just the nature of the beast between your new tires and your factory ones. It’s just like how when some people say that they do feel a difference in performance and mileage by running 93 octane in a vehicle that’s only program to run 87, but it still isn’t enough of a difference to justify the higher cost of that fuel. Or like, which I’m not saying it’s a bad idea to do this, I’m just saying it out of principle that like spending all that money on upgrading your lubricants to synthetic, clearly out of the premise of better mileage. Sure, you’ll get better economy but the amount of gas you save isn’t going to no where near justify the higher cost of of those lubricants if all you’re doing it for is to spend less at the gas pump.

Same thing goes for a tire that’s more designed to go on a heavy duty three quarter ton; will it help? Sure, but it’s not necessary when you weigh in the loss of mileage, loss of ride comfort and increase in cost of the tires when the cheaper P rated ones will do just fine.


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Yep, the 10-ply is going to be overkill, IMO. Oh well, won't know which side I fall on until I try it, right?

I did verify with my installer that they would honor Cooper's 45-day road test. So my hope is, worst case, I'm not satisfied with the XLT, take it back in and swap them out for a set of Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S (and receive the price difference). I'll likely just end up using them til their shot, or I trade it off for a 2500. Have a few more payments before that becomes a viable option though

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[corneileous]

Yep, the 10-ply is going to be overkill, IMO. Oh well, won't know which side I fall on until I try it, right?

I did verify with my installer that they would honor Cooper's 45-day road test. So my hope is, worst case, I'm not satisfied with the XLT, take it back in and swap them out for a set of Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S (and receive the price difference). I'll likely just end up using them til their shot, or I trade it off for a 2500. Have a few more payments before that becomes a viable option though

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Well like I said, it’s just all about what matters to you and weighing in between what you like and what you’ll accept. That heavy of a tire shouldn’t make your trailer towing experience worse by any means but it’s also about all the other times that you’re not gonna be towing as well.

I’m not gonna lie to you, when I was asked to pull a friend of mine‘s Mustang down to the transmission shop, those eight-ply BFG‘s handled that heavy flatbed and that car loaded on it about like to what I would think would be comparable to pulling a really heavy-ass trailer behind a dually compared to a non-dually pickup. I couldn’t feel any kind of sideward movements of the sidewalls at all. But now who’s to say how different that experience would’ve been if I had done that after I bought my new Michelin’s? Or even with the SRA’s?

I’m not sure at all how that flatbed and car combination weighed against that Uhaul but I really don’t expect the results to be all that different. My Michelin’s? Can’t speak much for those because so far my little 10-foot utility trailer is all that truck’s ever towed ever since. Primarily it’s been just hauling my riding mower around but one time it had about a backhoe-sized front bucket and a half’s worth of road base gravel on it which pretty much loaded that trailer to it’s max, and one day me and the girlfriend helped a friend of hers move and the trailer was pretty heavy at that point having a washer, dryer, fully loaded fridge and upright freezer along with the back half of the trailer loaded with some pretty heavy other miscellaneous items. Pulled all of that probably no different than the BFGs would’ve in my opinion if I still had them.


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[tourrider]

Yep, the 10-ply is going to be overkill, IMO. Oh well, won't know which side I fall on until I try it, right?

I did verify with my installer that they would honor Cooper's 45-day road test. So my hope is, worst case, I'm not satisfied with the XLT, take it back in and swap them out for a set of Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S (and receive the price difference). I'll likely just end up using them til their shot, or I trade it off for a 2500. Have a few more payments before that becomes a viable option though

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I’m a Cooper guy for sure. I hit a bit of mud, and lots of snow in my travels. the XLT is a great AT tire.


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