Upgrade my Ram 1500 or buy Power Wagon?

[BellevilleRam]

Hey guys. I'm wondering wether it's worth upgrading my 2017 Ram 1500 to make it more off road worthy or is the independent front suspension going to be a potential weakness that I can't get around?
I'm considering upgrading my Bilstein level to the Carli Performance System 2 " lift with custom tuned King shocks. Yes, the ride quality off road would be superb but I'm worried about breaking parts due to the independent suspension. Would my money be better Invested in a 2019 Power Wagon for moderate to serious off road use? I don't tow so that's not really a concern for now.

EDIT: I should also add the type of "off road" driving I am talking about. Not really rock crawling like the Jeep crowd do but definitely bombing down some very rough trails and single track stuff. Maybe tackle a few steep rocky hills and do some exploring. I have seen a few videos of guys breaking parts in their front ends due to the independent front suspension hence my post. Maybe I should just **** out my Ram 1500 then since it's all paid for.

 

[ChevySlayer69]

I'd get a 2019 Rebel (has rear locker) before the huge expensive power wagon

 

[kurek]

The value of a live axle diminishes the farther you get from rock crawling and these trucks are just too big for that in the first place.
Switch to a PW if you need the payload capacity or want the lockers. Otherwise the 1500 is not a handicap.

 

[BellevilleRam]

I'd get a 2019 Rebel (has rear locker) before the huge expensive power wagon

Aren't the Rebels pretty close in price and still have that independent front suspension I'm worried about breaking? I guess I'm wondering if I really NEED to be able to lock my front and rear axles. I love getting out into deep snow when i can and I thought it might help me from getting stuck?

 

[Jeff Krawczyk]

Would love to see some pics if you happen to go the pw route as a lifted up power wagon is one of my fav...sorry couldnt help with the breaking problem..

 

[ram1500rsm]

The PW axel strenght will be more than welcome if you were doing rocks/hard obstacles where the tires can be spining freely at one point and catching traction at the next, plus it comes equipped with rear and front lockers so it can do more aggressive offraoding. Your 1500 can be more of a desert racer type of offroader without much issue unless you want to jump dunes, then you need to go from Carli to Dirt King
I've been running Kings for over a year now, fast dirt offroading, slow dirt more technical with ruts, i hate mud so i couldn't care less about it, and also some rocks here and there but nothing super extreme and when i do it i'm careful with the skinny pedal as i'm running 37's, 83k miles here and i'm still on factory tie-rods and front LCA's so 1500's can take a nice beating on the dirt assuming you have the good chit on her. If the truck will see a lot of rocks a PW will mop the floor with a 1500 under those conditions.

 

[BellevilleRam]

The PW axel strenght will be more than welcome if you were doing rocks/hard obstacles where the tires can be spining freely at one point and catching traction at the next, plus it comes equipped with rear and front lockers so it can do more aggressive offraoding. Your 1500 can be more of a desert racer type of offroader without much issue unless you want to jump dunes, then you need to go from Carli to Dirt King
I've been running Kings for over a year now, fast dirt offroading, slow dirt more technical with ruts, i hate mud so i couldn't care less about it, and also some rocks here and there but nothing super extreme and when i do it i'm careful with the skinny pedal as i'm running 37's, 83k miles here and i'm still on factory tie-rods and front LCA's so 1500's can take a nice beating on the dirt assuming you have the good chit on her. If the truck will see a lot of rocks a PW will mop the floor with a 1500 under those conditions.

Thanks for the informative response! Much appreciated!

 

[michael harpe]

Here is my power wagon just to make you come over to the dark side.

2018 power wagon fully loaded.
Flowmaster 50 series exhaust 3.5" to 3"
Rough country 4.5" lift (largest one made for pw that isn't custom)
Fuel offroad 20" wheels
Milestar 37x12.5x20

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[BellevilleRam]

Here is my power wagon just to make you come over to the dark side.

2018 power wagon fully loaded.
Flowmaster 50 series exhaust 3.5" to 3"
Rough country 4.5" lift (largest one made for pw that isn't custom)
Fuel offroad 20" wheels
Milestar 37x12.5x20

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Damn dude that is a BEAST!!! Love it!

 

[michael harpe]

Damn dude that is a BEAST!!! Love it!

Thank you. I've got 7k into the truck counting the stereo upgrades. Here is my build thread

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/my-power-wagon-build-thread.150253/

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Gary2]

Power Wagon if you are interested in a off road truck. No comparison between the two rocks or not. You will get your money back when it comes to trade in or sell time. I hate IFS with a passion. If Gen 4 PW were not so long I would of had one years ago and sold the Jeep but I prefer the smaller gen 3 PW and gave up looking for an unrusted one in this area

 

[BellevilleRam]

Thank you. I've got 7k into the truck counting the stereo upgrades. Here is my build thread

https://www.ramforum.com/threads/my-power-wagon-build-thread.150253/

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Thanks, I’ll check it out!

 

[BellevilleRam]

Power Wagon if you are interested in a off road truck. No comparison between the two rocks or not. You will get your money back when it comes to trade in or sell time. I hate IFS with a passion. If Gen 4 PW were not so long I would of had one years ago and sold the Jeep but I prefer the smaller gen 3 PW and gave up looking for an unrusted one in this area

Any chance you could elaborate on why you hate IFS and why you said there’s no comparison between the two vehicles rocks or not? Thanks!

 

[Gary2]

Power wagon is the truck version of a Wrangler Rubicon . Its a purpose built Off Road vehicle if it is built like the gen 3's, lockers front and rear , right gears for big tires, winch ( if ordered right ) electric sway bar disconnect . IFS is what 2wd trucks had when 4wd trucks had straight axles. Too much work to lift , Car type axles ( CV shafts) no axle shaft disconect on right axle Plus you can get the 6.4 engine in the PW. I can go on but let the shopper do the comparison if her is serious about a new truck . The facts are in the specs of each.

 

[novelmike]

I'd get a 2019 Rebel (has rear locker) before the huge expensive power wagon

Adding a rear locker to his truck would be a lot cheaper than buying a 2019 Rebel.

 

[ram1500rsm]

Power wagon is the truck version of a Wrangler Rubicon . Its a purpose built Off Road vehicle if it is built like the gen 3's, lockers front and rear , right gears for big tires, winch ( if ordered right ) electric sway bar disconnect . IFS is what 2wd trucks had when 4wd trucks had straight axles. Too much work to lift , Car type axles ( CV shafts) no axle shaft disconect on right axle Plus you can get the 6.4 engine in the PW. I can go on but let the shopper do the comparison if her is serious about a new truck . The facts are in the specs of each.

The JT Rubicon is the real Rubicon version of the Wrangler. lol.
Rubicon disconnect doesn't seem to last long but there are manual disconnects for it or Curry Anti rock setups and the like. Don't know how the disconnect on the PW fares. PW axels are more heavy duty than the 44's on the Rubi so that's a good thing,
PW though is unique in it's segment because of all features you have mentioned but the PW main issue is its size for the purpose built offroad you say it's.

Live axel vs IFS is apple to oranges. Vehicles today equipped with IFS will defecate on those built with front live axels when it comes to handling. Severe heavy duty tasks is still live axels best game though assuming you leave them bone stock. add a lift and big tires and you handle will suffer.

Live axels are still king of the rocks unless you built some crazy ass IFS that we don’t have in the aftermarket for the RAM like you will with Ultra 4 rigs. Still the simplicity and HD of the live axels is hard to beat when rocks are present, but you obviosuly have no idea about purposely built IFS setups. RAM doesn't have one though lol, but just because you haven't seen it doesn't meant it doesn't exist.

 

[ram1500rsm]

OP, like i said I do moderate rocky trails, nothing too crazy and mostly because i don't have proper armor to protect the belly otherwise i'll do more aggresive trails. the other issues is that more aggressive trails also have places where trying to steer the truck will be a choir, it's a choir already even on moderate trails. I can only imagine trying to drive something even longer and wider. I don't have a rear locker either just the factory LSD and the truck will go many places with that configuration. I had a 4 door Wrangler before and at times i thought it was big, the RAM is an elephant, a 2500 is damn Oil tanker

I'll leave you with some of the stuff you can do with 1500 and the Carli setup. I don't have any issues even on 37's. I'll invite Gary to try to keep up with his little shorty RAM but he's more into the "look" lol, i'm more into using the truck for what i wanted a 1500 and this is pretty much it.

Untitled by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Untitled by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Untitled by RAM RSM, on Flickr

Untitled by RAM RSM, on Flickr

by RAM RSM, on Flickr

by RAM RSM, on Flickr

 

[ram1500rsm]

This PW didn't fair very good first time. go to 7:50min to see it. disconnect, front and rear locker, possible 80psi in the rear tires as judged by it's wheel hop ? Next vehicle in the video towards min 9:00 ot so is a bone stock Chevy colorado with IFS with front and rear lockers and no disconnect yada yada yada, it's a lot lighther and nimble compared to PW puposedly built offroad machine hahahahaha just watch how far it goes compared to the PW.

There is also a better setup PW at Min 11:50. You want at least 37's on a truck like that, lift a big tires will make a dramatic difference on a 2500, it's axels are massive compared to a 1500 and you can get more aggresive with it compared to a 1500 or even that bone stock Colorado for sure. If i drove the same obstacle like this dude with my 1500 chances are i'll brake a front axel or a tie rod.

At min 26:30 you have the same PW1 again, i guess with less PSI on the tires and more throttle, this time he faired a lot better. I like how aggresive you can go with the PW on 37's though, don't care much for stock anything. You can see what it takes to conquer that damn hill, nothing stock will make it without a winch, The PW already have the axels to a point but it wants less weight, shorter wheelbase and bigger tires and driver that is not scared to get some boo boo's here and there, it's not rocket science, lol. And this is not a hardcore trail by any means, just one MF slippery hill with some loose dirt.

 

[ram1500rsm]

Here you have a short base 3rd gen 1500, don't know what mods or what axels, i don't think 3rd gen had heavy duty axels to run 37's ?? without spending money upgrading them ? In any case i did this same trail with my 4 door Wrangler Sport, D44 rear, D30 front, NO LOCKERS with a small 2-2.5" lift and 35's and a bunch of armor and skids. (i have video). a PW will struggle here because weight/wheelbase and overall clearance, it's just too damn big for this type of trails. maybe the reason there are no videos of PW on this trail that i know of. but with a capable driver and 35/37's should be doable no problems.

This is John Bull in Big Bear CA. You'll need a lot of armor to run this with a RAM 1500 and at least 35/37's with rear LSD/locker. Toyota Tacomas can do this with IFS, skids and rear lockers on 33/35's. I woulnd't mind putting the RAM on video in this trail if i had real skids to cover the engine, steering, TC, trans and gas tank skids. I don't mind boo boos when the skids can take the abuse. Bad thing about the RAM 1500 4th gen offroad aftermarket is that there are too many Gary's doing the $50 or the $300 spacers, same BS, to have the "tough" 4" lifted look but there are no cojones to bend a little metal here and there from time to time just for the fun of it on the real offroad trails so our aftermarket reacts accordingly.


Watch Gary IFS doing what you and your Wrangler won't do, let alone your 1500. a PW should fair a little better but again not on 33's, full size trucks are just too damn big so we need big tires.


Had to winch in the end

 

[Gary2]

The JT Rubicon is the real Rubicon version of the Wrangler. lol.
Rubicon disconnect doesn't seem to last long but there are manual disconnects for it or Curry Anti rock setups and the like. Don't know how the disconnect on the PW fares. PW axels are more heavy duty than the 44's on the Rubi so that's a good thing,
PW though is unique in it's segment because of all features you have mentioned but the PW main issue is its size for the purpose built offroad you say it's.

Live axel vs IFS is apple to oranges. Vehicles today equipped with IFS will defecate on those built with front live axels when it comes to handling. Severe heavy duty tasks is still live axels best game though assuming you leave them bone stock. add a lift and big tires and you handle will suffer.

Live axels are still king of the rocks unless you built some crazy ass IFS that we don’t have in the aftermarket for the RAM like you will with Ultra 4 rigs. Still the simplicity and HD of the live axels is hard to beat when rocks are present, but you obviosuly have no idea about purposely built IFS setups. RAM doesn't have one though lol, but just because you haven't seen it doesn't meant it doesn't exist.

Most people don't buy an IFS truck to redesign the suspension no meaning basic leveling or drop bracket kits as a redesign. . I have been in Construction for my whole life and when it comes to Trucks I seem to see a lot more Superduty fords with straight axles on the jobs than I do any IFS trucks and it really don't have much to do with rocks. If you want a truck that is ready to go offroad right from the show room floor its hard to beat a Power Wagon . Do all ya want to a 1500 and its still a 1500. A power wagon speaks for its self if researched on like a Power Wagon Forum