Well that was unexpected ! Lifter gone 52,000 miles.

[Motorhead440]

Currently overseas and my wife sends me a video of her 2016 Ram 5.7 with only 52,000 miles on it and it's making a racket. She said she was driving home and suddenly heard a loud tick sound and the truck lost a little power. She drove it the additional 5 miles to the house and parked it. Never had a lifter tick before. Mobil one 5-30 and the same Mopar factory filters and Mobil 1 filters I use on my Scat Pack Challenger. I have changed the oil and filter regularly in the truck 12 times. I'm obsessive and keep great records. I even changed it once because I was bored! No mods. It's my wife's truck and she drives like a normal human being. I can only figure defective part . its about 3 months out of warranty. I guess I'll tear into it when I get home in 30 days. I know it's a tired subject but I think mine is a little different in that it was driven only 52,000 miles. I'd enjoy hear everyone's thoughts on a 52,000 mile truck that wiped a lifter. Have you seen a low mileage truck wipe one out like this before?

https://youtu.be/B80dpi4wSlY

 

[seabrook]

man that sucks - did you run 91/93 in it?

 

[Travis8352]

Whats most different to me about yours is you used mobil 1 extended performance 5w30!!! If my memory is correct i dont think i have seen a failure with 5w30! Only 5w20 iirc. Hope to see some pictures of the tear down!

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yes. My 2012 started Hemi ticking around that mileage. I changed oil myself with Mobil 1 5W-20 and Fram Ultra XG Oil Filter, every 5-6k miles.

Fishing around for answers, I ran across recommendation to PUP on BITOG Forum. I switched from Mobil 1 to PUP and the ticking STOPPED completely. I never used Mobil 1 again.

Since joining here a couple years ago and reading a bunch of research and user experience, I now know that Hemi Gen III valve train is poorly lubricated and needs band aids. Pup had added moly for wear reduction, and this turns out to be a key additive that stops lifter roller freezing. Red Line has even more, and I've been using ever since.

 

[Motorhead440]

man that sucks - did you run 91/93 in it?

Wife's truck and she alternated 87-89. She babied that truck like it was one of the kids; it was her first new vehicle. Now I get to fix it. Naturally it will go back stock and after I get it torn down, I'll post pictures of the damage and ask for sourcing on good quality oem spec cam and lifters. I will not go back with oem lifters.

 

[ramffml]

Welp. Guess I'm going to return my Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 then, I literally bought it today. Mother of mercy.

 

[Burla]

It is a known issue, 52k is a little early, you usually start seeing them at 70k miles. Look into hemi tick lubrication, do what you can to prevent it.

 

[seabrook]

Wife's truck and she alternated 87-89. She babied that truck like it was one of the kids; it was her first new vehicle. Now I get to fix it. Naturally it will go back stock and after I get it torn down, I'll post pictures of the damage and ask for sourcing on good quality oem spec cam and lifters. I will not go back with oem lifters.

good luck man hope it turns out good!!

 

[Travis8352]

Welp. Guess I'm going to return my Mobil 1 FS 0w-40 then, I literally bought it today. Mother of mercy.

This mobil 1 is not what mobil 1 fs 0w40 is. This one does not contain esters like the fs does. Also the fs has more zddp and alot more boron

 

[Motorhead440]

It is a known issue, 52k is a little early, you usually start seeing them at 70k miles. Look into hemi tick lubrication, do what you can to prevent it.

Know of anyone using the 10 psi higher pressure spring or pump ? It's a bit draining watching all videos speculating about how to cure the Hemi lifter issue. I've heard authoritative, well intentioned people say : Its the lifter diameter; the cam is too high in the block, it's the MDS; slightly higher oil pump relief pressures is needed; the oil itself; the filters. It would be great if there was a Tom Hoover "Father of the 426 Hemi" expert engineer that would say definitively what the issue is. Is there one?

 

[ramffml]

Know of anyone using the 10 psi higher pressure spring or pump ? It's a bit draining watching all videos speculating about how to cure the Hemi lifter issue. I've heard authoritative, well intentioned people say : Its the lifter diameter; the cam is too high in the block, it's the MDS; slightly higher oil pump relief pressures is needed; the oil itself; the filters. It would be great if there was a Tom Hoover "Father of the 426 Hemi" expert engineer that would say definitively what the issue is. Is there one?

Probably only FCA knows. And they attempted a fix by reworking the lifters themselves (different needle bearing setup).

My own opinion, I'm going to use Occam's Razor and take the simplest explanation; you get a bad lifter every once in a while, a manufacturing flaw, and something like Redline may help mitigate it but you either get the bad lifter or you don't. Any other theories don't explain why 1 lifter in an engine is completely trashed and the other random lifters in the same engine under the same conditions are in 100% pristine condition still after 200k miles.

 

[ramffml]

This mobil 1 is not what mobil 1 fs 0w40 is. This one does not contain esters like the fs does. Also the fs has more zddp and alot more boron

Thanks for that, guess I'll give it a shot after all and include the 15 oz bottle of LG as well.

Do you guys know how much moly that combo would give me? Apparently a VOA of M1 FS 0w-40 is showing 80 ppm by itself, does the 15 oz LG add a signficant amount of moly?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-0w40-euro.332273/

 

[johnb555]

58,000 for me in my 2013 but warranty took care of it. 3,000 mile oil changes since then and I'm at 115,000 now.

 

[Burla]

Know of anyone using the 10 psi higher pressure spring or pump ? It's a bit draining watching all videos speculating about how to cure the Hemi lifter issue. I've heard authoritative, well intentioned people say : Its the lifter diameter; the cam is too high in the block, it's the MDS; slightly higher oil pump relief pressures is needed; the oil itself; the filters. It would be great if there was a Tom Hoover "Father of the 426 Hemi" expert engineer that would say definitively what the issue is. Is there one?

Uncle Tony, even though he got some things wrong as like 50 people posted video's against him, the fact so many people post video's against him shows how many people he reaches with his hemi tear downs. Literally the issue with hemi's is lifter tick isnt one thing, sometimes it is needle bearings, sometimes it is something causing scuffs on side of lifters, sometimes it is lash, and I bet I can come up with other things if I thought a little longer. What it isnt, is the quality of metal on the lifter, that is good. It is something other then that.

Oil pump sounds good, I think a hell cat is within reason, but some guys say there is an issue if you go too aggressive with that pump.

 

[Travis8352]

Thanks for that, guess I'll give it a shot after all and include the 15 oz bottle of LG as well.

Do you guys know how much moly that combo would give me? Apparently a VOA of M1 FS 0w-40 is showing 80 ppm by itself, does the 15 oz LG add a signficant amount of moly?

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-0w40-euro.332273/

Should bring you to about 180 ppm or moly along with some esters from the lubegard. Also the one thing i forgot is the fs 0w40 has over 3000 ppm of calcium and a 12.5~ tbn so its very capable od long oci if your interested in extending drains. Ive seen some uoas for this oil after 10k still showing 5+ tbn remaining

 

[Travis8352]

Uncle Tony, even though he got some things wrong as like 50 people posted video's against him, the fact so many people post video's against him shows how many people he reaches with his hemi tear downs. Literally the issue with hemi's is lifter tick isnt one thing, sometimes it is needle bearings, sometimes it is something causing scuffs on side of lifters, sometimes it is lash, and I bet I can come up with other things if I thought a little longer. What it isnt, is the quality of metal on the lifter, that is good. It is something other then that.

Oil pump sounds good, I think a hell cat is within reason, but some guys say there is an issue if you go too aggressive with that pump.

Im wondering if this one is needlebearing grenading. Thats the worst one imp outside of the few where the roller literally just splits in 2-3 pieces. No oil would prevent that one. But thankfully those are extremely rare that ive seen. The side scuffing one is the weird one. Seems some blocks must have improperly machined lifter bores or the lifter itself is the culprit and id bet the high density ester base stocks in redline takes care of that

 

[DILLIGAF]

Know of anyone using the 10 psi higher pressure spring or pump ?

Raising your idle to 750rpms is the answer. I run a stock pump with my cam swap with zero issues. I even asked my tuner if I needed a new pump and with my setup he said it wasnt needed.

The 5.7L doesn't have oil squirters like the 6.4L

 

[Burla]

Im wondering if this one is needlebearing grenading. Thats the worst one imp outside of the few where the roller literally just splits in 2-3 pieces. No oil would prevent that one. But thankfully those are extremely rare that ive seen. The side scuffing one is the weird one. Seems some blocks must have improperly machined lifter bores or the lifter itself is the culprit and id bet the high density ester base stocks in redline takes care of that

IMO the one wear he talks about the lubrication and side pressure on the lifters, he tore down a hemi and the lifters were scuffed = downward pressure on the cam lob explains every fail, even needle nearing fails. What came first the chicken or the egg?

How do we know the needle bearings that failed didnt fail because of downward pressure on the cam lob? Not every lifter on the fail has scuffing, but that doesn't mean there wasnt downward pressure on those certain circumstances, that just means if there was downward pressure the cause wasnt a lifter cocked in the bore. I have believed this since day one, especially because of the success with lubrication strategies and the engineers report on the metallurgy on the lob. I would love to be wrong, to hear something that makes total sense, but I have yet to hear anything that makes more sense then that yet.

When you went through what this forum went through in testing, any theory you come up with has to encompass the FACT that most hemi ticks ( a major pre-curser to cam fails) can be silenced with scientific lubrication strategies. The fact EP additives plate, and the fact that heavy EP additives stop at a minimum 1/2 of hemi ticks, just bolsters the argument when you relieve the downward pressure the ticks stop, backed not only with a decade here but the engine builder who did the metallurgy. Perhaps that dude's info is better then uncle tony's?

 

[Burla]

I talked with this dude's business partner for an hour one day, good people to the core this guys. I think the one thing they didn't quite understand is EP versus AW additives, they believed AW additives help this as it does with flat tappet cams. But, those are too easily sacrificed, the plate is not enough to stop hemi tick, but EP additives are in most cases.

The one question I don't even like to think of, is why heavy EP additives aren't 100% successful. This is why this stuff is very frustrating for people who get hemi tick or cam fails. There is no hemi whisperer at this point, but one thing fca agrees with high moly should be in hemi specific oil, and your hemi should have that as well.

 

[HEMIMANN]

@ramffml - @Burla and gang have data showing wear reduction with % MoDTC additive. Knee in the curve is ~ 200 ppm, so if you add Lubegard to your FS Mobil 1 0W-40 you should have a good package, along with Royal Purple or Fram Ultra XG Filter.

I know the lifter tick is sensitive to oil and filter type - I quieted my original 2012 Ram 1500 Hemi 5.7 lifter tick by changing oil type.