When Not to Use Redline Thread

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Burla

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MoS2 in theory yes good tick killer, but potential downsides to powdered moly in suspension.
 

HEMIMANN

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I think we're just discussing Moly in general

Yes, moly in oil solution needs to be of the form (Molybdenum Dithiocarbamate), which isn't a lubricant

Under sufficient localize heating due friction, it converts into MoS2 (Molybdenum Disulfied) at that point - this is the dry film lubricant that is held in suspension in Moly greases, particularly for high loaded chassis and bucket pin joints.

 

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Wish I'd seen this thread beforehand lol, I only heard the good things about redline 5w30 so I figured that was the obvious choice for my recently purchased 09 ram. 5.7 with 160k, does have hemi tick. As you can see I live in michigan so it being too thick was a concern but I didn't think it would be a big deal.

I did the oil change over to redline a few days ago, and now I have a p1521 code. I seem to get different explanations every time I look it up but I gather it has something to do with the correct or incorrect oil viscosity? As much of a waste as it would be I wouldn't be strongly opposed to changing it again right now if that would be best? I'm honestly pretty clueless about this, just looking for advice on what to do and what would be the best for my engine...
 

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I should add it's also throwing a p3430 which I understand could be related. This is the first time I checked codes since buying it so I don't know if it's since the oil change or not, but there was no CEL when I bought it, now there is since changing the oil
 

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I should add it's also throwing a p3430 which I understand could be related. This is the first time I checked codes since buying it so I don't know if it's since the oil change or not, but there was no CEL when I bought it, now there is since changing the oil
What filter?
 

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Wish I'd seen this thread beforehand lol, I only heard the good things about redline 5w30 so I figured that was the obvious choice for my recently purchased 09 ram. 5.7 with 160k, does have hemi tick. As you can see I live in michigan so it being too thick was a concern but I didn't think it would be a big deal.

I did the oil change over to redline a few days ago, and now I have a p1521 code. I seem to get different explanations every time I look it up but I gather it has something to do with the correct or incorrect oil viscosity? As much of a waste as it would be I wouldn't be strongly opposed to changing it again right now if that would be best? I'm honestly pretty clueless about this, just looking for advice on what to do and what would be the best for my engine...
Seems like this is only an issue in the real early 4th Gens,as most of the posts i've seen relating to this code are the 09's and early 10's.
 
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Isolate cause of hemi tick, is it exhaust bolts? Hit tow haul button every trip for a while or manually put gear selector in gear. Either of those will shut off mds. If you have hemi lifter tick, this is the stuff you want in your engine, but yeah 0w30 might have been better. So you aren't getting any cold piston slap? If that is the case, I'd really look hard at the bolts. If you can post an audio or audio/vid such as youtube, we can listen to the tick maybe help direct you, take the recording from under the engine WARM and let it record for over a minute if you can.
 

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I should add it's also throwing a p3430 which I understand could be related. This is the first time I checked codes since buying it so I don't know if it's since the oil change or not, but there was no CEL when I bought it, now there is since changing the oil
P3430 doesn't come up as a legit DTC. The P1521 makes me wonder.... If you bought an old truck, with high mileage, and you switched to some "magic pookie" oil with the intent of.... well.... just what IS the intent?
Does the truck have a problem currently? What guides you in expectation that using Redline is going to "fix" this problem(s)?

I suppose this: Every poorly designed engine, regardless of who manufactured it, over the past 60+ years has gone by the wayside pretty soon (e.g. The Chevy Vega garbage engine and the V-8-6-4 Cadillac and the Oldsmobile 350 Diesel).

Since Chrysler has produced literally millions of these engines, AND so many of them (vast majority) have given out such dependable service over the lifespan of the vehicles in which they were installed, why doesn't the manufacturer recommend PUP or Redline from day one? Even Corvettes engines are emblazoned with the admonition that Mobil-1 is required; right there under the hood.

I have read many posts here and realize that the school of thought is pretty pro-these 2 oils and there has been ad nauseum discussion about which oil filter to use, too.

Sadly, there are no no-profit organizations out there who do unbiased field testing in this subject that goes beyond speculation, correlation, or anecdotal levels to the end result of proof.

I've personally and professionally been at the forefront of seeing first hand results of a customer or myself beginning a new or almost new car (differing brands) with top tier oil, filter and fuel.... and seeing north of 200 thousand trouble free miles on almost ALL of them. But that's anecdotal at it's best. It's correlative too. But it ISN'T proof., because the "N" factor is severely limited. These vehicles weren't taken to different locales for real world differential affects such as weather/ temperature extremes. An example of that was the original iteration of the Ford Focus. HVAC tests were performed in multiple locales... the harshest one (in my own judgement) was Death Valley at ambient temps of around 130 degrees F. I simply do not have the resources that FoMoCo does, or all other car manufacturers. Ditto for these great folks here, also.

In closing, I, myself, would weigh in the obvious factors germane to your truck.... The original owner's own testimony backed up with documentation would be a starting point. I had a 1999 Toyota Tacoma customer who ran the truck to 345,000 miles with NO major failures before he sold it; and there was lots of documents. My shop performed all of it's maintenance and repairs from it's early life. But this is anecdotal at it's very best! Peace! :)
 
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To ignore a decade of results in order to pat yourself on the back to somehow give yourself some type of credibility has the opposite result. Even at this time we still have new trucks erasing the scourge of hemi tick with an oil change backed by science and a huge % rate. Next time you want to pat yourself on the back, why not try and do it where some dude killed his hemi tick with running redline instead of a poor result? Because you know he would laugh you out of here? just say'n

I really thought we would be past this as a forum except for the trolls, which you are not, so I miss what is the purpose? That poll thread is public, meaning you can see the members who killed their hemi tick, you can see the results and those members long histories here.
 

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Wish I'd seen this thread beforehand lol, I only heard the good things about redline 5w30 so I figured that was the obvious choice for my recently purchased 09 ram. 5.7 with 160k, does have hemi tick. As you can see I live in michigan so it being too thick was a concern but I didn't think it would be a big deal.

I did the oil change over to redline a few days ago, and now I have a p1521 code. I seem to get different explanations every time I look it up but I gather it has something to do with the correct or incorrect oil viscosity? As much of a waste as it would be I wouldn't be strongly opposed to changing it again right now if that would be best? I'm honestly pretty clueless about this, just looking for advice on what to do and what would be the best for my engine...

Red Line 5W-30 is still fine. Except the price went way, way up.

For those of us in the upper half of North America, 5W-30 is too thick at start up and causes piston skirt slap in some guy's engines, so we drop to 0W-30 to eliminate that. As I've said, it is Red Line's 0W-30 that they changed formula from an API SN race oil to an SPI SP w*h*i*z motor oil, not suitable for Hemi lubrication issues.
 
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My intent as you say was not to put magic oil in and fix everything lol. Truck needed an oil change, I did a little looking to see what oil would be best and found it could cure hemi tick too, win win right. Getting rid of hemi tick wasn’t/isn’t my primary concern actually, maybe it should be I don’t know.

I didn’t notice piston slap but I can’t say I’ve heard it before. I’ll get a video of it running later today. Thanks for the feedback
 
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My intent as you say was not to put magic oil in and fix everything lol. Truck needed an oil change, I did a little looking to see what oil would be best and found it could cure hemi tick too, win win right. Getting rid of hemi tick wasn’t/isn’t my primary concern actually, maybe it should be I don’t know.

I didn’t notice piston slap but I can’t say I’ve heard it before. I’ll get a video of it running later today. Thanks for the feedback
piston slap will usually only happen at cold startup early morning. Once a truck has been running, unless it is bone chilling cold, you shouldnt get the slap. Of course that happens because the pistons shrink faster then the block in the cold, as all metal shrinks in the cold. Not really oil related, but we have found 0w30 can lubricate that spot faster then 5w30 to keep that to a minimum.
 

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My intent as you say was not to put magic oil in and fix everything lol. Truck needed an oil change, I did a little looking to see what oil would be best and found it could cure hemi tick too, win win right. Getting rid of hemi tick wasn’t/isn’t my primary concern actually, maybe it should be I don’t know.

I didn’t notice piston slap but I can’t say I’ve heard it before. I’ll get a video of it running later today. Thanks for the feedback

My view on Hemi tick doesn't seem universally shared. I've never waited until failures to occur to try to prevent them. In this case, a major, lose-of-use and time failure has some probability of being prevented by using super oils. The engine alone is $9,500, and a cam swap (pending engine damage) is $4,500, plus the time the truck is out of service.

For me, that major a failure is not worth praying my truck won't be one that gets it. I use Red Line, or whatever super oil is best / cheapest at the time, to PREVENT such a failure from occurring.

Again, it's a shame this engine has this design flaw. It is what it is.
 
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My view on Hemi tick doesn't seem universally shared. I've never waited until failures to occur to try to prevent them. In this case, a major, lose-of-use and time failure has some probability of being prevented by using super oils. The engine alone is $9,500, and a cam swap (pending engine damage) is $4,500, plus the time the truck is out of service.

For me, that major a failure is not worth praying my truck won't be one that gets it. I use Red Line, or whatever super oil is best / cheapest at the time, to PREVENT such a failure from occurring.

Again, it's a shame this engine has this design flaw. It is what it is.
I often miss my 351w in that bronco, had 3 of them, straight dreams to own. The stuff we took for granted in the 90's. I came so close to buying bronco number 4 this weekend, has the 351w in it as well. Still might, but the reason I didnt is because I'm trying to get the wife to use her car til it dies, hopefully 7 more years. The good news is hemi tick is just a hemi thing, the bad news is we all have hemi's.
 

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Thanks for all the input. Ended up changing to pennzoil 5w20, no codes or lights so I guess that takes care of that.
 

ramffml

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Thanks for all the input. Ended up changing to pennzoil 5w20, no codes or lights so I guess that takes care of that.

I've read more than once that people have warned about thicker viscosity causing lights and codes. Seems to be always in older hemis?

I've run Redline 5w-30 in the winter before, also Mobil 1 0w-40 in my 2019 hemi and not a code or light or any indication that it was an issue (because it isn't an issue, mechanically anyway). MDS works better and better.

They probably just broadened the acceptable range in later years.
 

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I doubt the mechanicals in the engine in terms of lubrication are different - i.e., block and head casting and machining changes between Hemi engine variants.

I'd deduce that 5W-20 recommendation for light duties comes from EPA CAFE fuel economy standards, and 0W-40 for heavy duty is leftover from Hellcat applications / 6.2 / 6.4 Hemi, without much thought to actual truck application (i.e. - cya, not knowing what else to do). By the time they dropped the 6.4 into the HD trucks, they knew they had lifter lubrication problem, hence the 2017 lifter source and design change attempt to fix.

In essence, they were grab-a$$ing at fixes to the lifter roller seizing problem without fixing the root cause - supplying oil reliably to the roller, pin, needle bearings. Because that would require a lubrication circuit design change. Maybe if they would've just put the Hellcat oil pump in all Hemi's it would have helped enough to stop most of the failures.

Anyway, back to reality - I studied this and oil viscosities vs. temperature and wear, and came to 5W-30 being optimal for nominal truck applications. Not going back to list myriad posts on this. Tailoring for extreme ambient temperature and load/tow usage stems from the base grade. i.e. - cold ambients go to 0W-30, hot / high load go to 5W-40.

I don't see any reason to use 5W-20 short of proving warranty, but oil type is far more important to mitigate Hemi tick failures (high quality synthetic base oils, high moly additive).
 

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there are hundreds of thousands of these motors out there logging millions of miles without needing any magic oil. I have owned several and they did just fine on mobil1 .
 

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there are hundreds of thousands of these motors out there logging millions of miles without needing any magic oil. I have owned several and they did just fine on mobil1 .

Suggest reading some synthetic oil thread. This is about Ram Hemi engines and their unique issues. Otherwise it would be a Ram Forum. 'Any oil will work' is an uninformed opinion adding no value.
 
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