Whipple on Ram, Ford and Chevy?

[376denali]

Why does whipple only allow 450hp to the wheels on a ram, but Ford and Chevy on smaller motors get 735 and 685 and be ok?
From my reading on here several Forced induced (FI) rams have suffered catastrophic failer by trying to get more HP with FI.
Our the ram motors inferior to the 5.0 and 5.3 on having beefer internals?


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[dale197338]

Simple yes those engine have stronger internals. Same as the Challengers engine.

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[376denali]

This is very disappointing to hear.

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[ScLeCo]

This is very disappointing to hear.

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It's a sad fact of life. I went into getting a whipple knowing I would need a new engine sooner or later. It just happened to be sooner for me but I was pushing it from day one. 10# and 600hp on e85. I knew something was going to break. 3k miles later, broken lifter, dropped valve, hello 426 stroker.

 

[376denali]

It's a sad fact of life. I went into getting a whipple knowing I would need a new engine sooner or later. It just happened to be sooner for me but I was pushing it from day one. 10# and 600hp on e85. I knew something was going to break. 3k miles later, broken lifter, dropped valve, hello 426 stroker.

Where are you getting it from?

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[ScLeCo]

Where are you getting it from?

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BES

 

[376denali]

BES

Why not a Hell cat motor?

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[376denali]

Look at moparshops they are selling hellcats for 15k


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[ScLeCo]

Why not a Hell cat motor?

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Look at moparshops they are selling hellcats for 15k


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Well I think the only thing I'd really be buying is the hellcat name.
I'm getting a forged 6.9 liter. The hellcat is 6.2.
The hellcat blower requires more work to get the intake in usually the battery has to be moved to the other side. Among other things.
The Hellcat supercharger is 2.4 Liters. The Whipple that I already have is 2.9 liters...
And
My 426 costs LESS than 15K so basically store brand vs name brand? I guess...

 

[Tach_tech]

Why does whipple only allow 450hp to the wheels on a ram, but Ford and Chevy on smaller motors get 735 and 685 and be ok?
From my reading on here several Forced induced (FI) rams have suffered catastrophic failer by trying to get more HP with FI.
Our the ram motors inferior to the 5.0 and 5.3 on having beefer internals?


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That 735 for the 5.0 f150s is at the crank, not the wheels. So it’s likely just north of 600 at the tire. The 5.0 comes with forged intervals as far as I know right from the factory.

I don’t see 635 anywhere on whipples site for the 5.3/6.2 GM stuff, unless I’m missing it. 635 would likely be at the crank number. Their dyno sheets show 450-520ish at the wheel.

The rams typically make around 500 at the wheels, that’s what mine made, same with my buddies. Biggest issue with the 5.7 is the narrow top ring land. It’s not friendly for high boost levels, but they can still make good power if properly taken care of with a good safe tune.

 

[Dapk]

7-8 lbs of boost is max on the 5.7 for reliability. Go beyond that your on borrowed time.
It's not like the old days of getting away with it. Ring gap clearances used to allow some forgiveness. Not any more especially with emissions standards.

 

[Tach_tech]

7-8 lbs of boost is max on the 5.7 for reliability. Go beyond that your on borrowed time.
It's not like the old days of getting away with it. Ring gap clearances used to allow some forgiveness. Not any more especially with emissions standards.

Anything ever happen with working with FCA?

 

[NDanecker]

Biggest issue with the 5.7 is the narrow top ring land. It’s not friendly for high boost levels, but they can still make good power if properly taken care of with a good safe tune.

I believe the 5.7 are ok. Its the 392's that are bad for boost. Also, you gap rings differently for NA and boost motors so there is that.

I looked at hellcat crate motor vs building. Cheaper to build and you will get a better end result. Problem with crate is all the extra stuff to get the motor to work. Its not just a simple motor swap.

 

[Tach_tech]

I believe the 5.7 are ok. Its the 392's that are bad for boost. Also, you gap rings differently for NA and boost motors so there is that.

I looked at hellcat crate motor vs building. Cheaper to build and you will get a better end result. Problem with crate is all the extra stuff to get the motor to work. Its not just a simple motor swap.

Most people that are going to add boost aren’t going to rip the motor apart to adjust ring gap though. If you did do that you’d be silly not to put in forged stuff.

The 5.7 is ok for that 8psi mark but that top ring land is a very small distance from the top of the piston. Makes it a weak spot. When you get the drop in rod and piston kits that’s one of the things the new pistons fix.

 

[NDanecker]

Most people that are going to add boost aren’t going to rip the motor apart to adjust ring gap though. If you did do that you’d be silly not to put in forged stuff.

The 5.7 is ok for that 8psi mark but that top ring land is a very small distance from the top of the piston. Makes it a weak spot. When you get the drop in rod and piston kits that’s one of the things the new pistons fix.

I agree many don't pull motors to adjust ring gap. If you pull the motor might as well forge it and pick the right pistons, cam, etc. Like pulling a thread on a sweater. LOL.

I thought the stock 5.7 ring land was more then the stock 6.4 motors thus why 5.7s do better with boost then 6.4s. Both are not optimal for boost applications but generally speaking 5.7 is safer then 6.4 if comparing same boost levels. Could be wrong. Either way I've seen/heard about more 6.4 motors going POP when boosted then 5.7. Sure other factors come into play as well.

 

[Tach_tech]

I agree many don't pull motors to adjust ring gap. If you pull the motor might as well forge it and pick the right pistons, cam, etc. Like pulling a thread on a sweater. LOL.

I thought the stock 5.7 ring land was more then the stock 6.4 motors thus why 5.7s do better with boost then 6.4s. Both are not optimal for boost applications but generally speaking 5.7 is safer then 6.4 if comparing same boost levels. Could be wrong. Either way I've seen/heard about more 6.4 motors going POP when boosted then 5.7. Sure other factors come into play as well.

That’s an interesting point. I honestly don’t know if there is a piston design difference as far as ring lands go between the 5.7 and a 6.4. I have heard as well that the 6.4 is more sensitive too but never a definitive why though.

 

[ramffml]

So how does the 6.2 do so well under super charging? Is it a totally different engine than the 5.7/6.4?

 

[Tach_tech]

So how does the 6.2 do so well under super charging? Is it a totally different engine than the 5.7/6.4?

The 6.2 hellcat motor? It was built from the ground up to be supercharged, completely different engine. It is already built with a completely forged bottom end, amongst many other changes. The 5.7,6.1,6.4 were not built with that in mind.