Who has actually SEEN the "green ZF transmission instructions" on paper from ZF or dealership?

[Mojo88]

This was approximately 25.5" from floor to the bottom of the axel tube.

Hope you got your life insurance all paid up.......

 

[Dusty]

To reiterate what I already stated earlier...



I'm ultimately trying to figure out how to PROVE to the dealership (or any mechanic, really), who has "no evidence" of the "proper fill procedure"... that the green sheet is correct.

I hear a whine in the transmission after this transmission service that I didn't hear before. There's a chance that it's all in my head, but I don't think so. That's not something I can really prove, but I would really hope that there's something concrete I could offer this scammership, even if only the proper direction to look, so that they DO the job correctly in the future, as I'm sure I won't be the last person that asks them for a filter replacement and/or drain & refill.

I'm pretty sure the instructions are in the Ram service manual.

I've watched the techs at my dealership do the ZF transmission serve four times on two different trucks and they level the transmission oil pan by adding blocks to the lift points. Now if they do this on a drive-on lift (where all four wheels on on the same level) they would need to jack p the rear somehow.

If everything you stated about their service on your vehicle is true, they're a pretty sloppy shop!

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 158273 miles.

 

[DILLIGAF]

I stilled filled it on the lift

 

[Dusty]

My transfer case was underfilled also. I know that that and the front and rear differentials did not have fluid come out when I took the fill plug off first.
When I worked at Infinity in the ‘90s, further PDI (predelivery inspection) the master mechanic told me all the fluids had to be “topped off” as everything was shipped low on fluid. I guess all the manufacturers have been doing it.

GM intentionally shipped with fluids low because they did not know what position the vehicle would be in on the truck carrier.

By the way, the predelivery check for Rams included the dealer checking ALL fluid levels before delivery.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 158273 miles.

 

[06 Dodge]

GM intentionally shipped with fluids low because they did not know what position the vehicle would be in on the truck carrier.

By the way, the predelivery check for Rams included the dealer checking ALL fluid levels before delivery.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 158273 miles.

Yes they should check all fluid levels during PDI, but I have had dealers who claim they no longer get paid to do PDI work so no fluid checks or font end check they just wash the dirt off and put them on the lot for sale...

 

[mdc1990zr1]

GM intentionally shipped with fluids low because they did not know what position the vehicle would be in on the truck carrier.

By the way, the predelivery check for Rams included the dealer checking ALL fluid levels before delivery.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 158273 miles.

Yes, the pre delivery inspection at the dealership is supposed to catch the short coming of the manufacture. The dealership mechanics viewed this as a cost saving at their level and passed it onto the dealership as the dealership could not charge back the manufacturer like warranty work. Everybody is out to s*c*r*e*w everyone else

 

[garycarrick]

Just a random search on ZF 8 speed transmission fluid change.

Doesn't get much clearer..

"
Checking or filling a ZF 8HP transmission requires the entire vehicle to be on a level horizontal surface (vehicle level), though some specific truck applications (like Ram with certain crossmembers) require elevating the rear axle so the transmission pan flange itself sits dead level. Approved fluid alternatives include OEM ZF Lifeguard 8, Lifeguard 9, or fully compliant equivalents like Liqui Moly ATF Top Tec 1800 and Valvoline MaxLife Multi-Vehicle ATF. [1, 2, 4, 5]

Fluid Level & Vehicle Positioning Rules

• 
  Vehicle Level vs. Transmission Level: Official ZF Aftermarket Service Guidelines specify that the vehicle must be completely horizontal on a lift or four matching jack stands. However, because the transmission angles differ slightly depending on the chassis design (e.g., BMW vs. Ram truck), some mechanics use a spirit level directly on the bottom pan surface, adjusting the jack stands until the pan itself reads flat. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  
  
  
  • Temperature Window: The final level check must be done with the engine running, while the transmission fluid temperature is strictly between 30°C to 50°C (86°F to 122°F) monitored via a diagnostic scan tool. [1]
  • Gear Cycling: Before opening the fill plug to cap off the fluid at temperature, the engine must idle while cycling through P-R-D and manual gears 1st and 2nd, holding each briefly, with a brief run up to 2,000 RPM to fill the torque converter. []"
  • 
    
  • Vehicles like the ram need the transmission leveled.

 

[lat1504]

I'm obviously referring to these instructions that are all over this forum [and Jeep forums]... https://www.ramforum.com/threads/transmission-service-question.226059/#post-3100445

So I took my transmission to a local dealer to get the pan/filter replaced and do a "drain & fill". HUGE MISTAKE!! In "their system", they only show to level the vehicle (and not the "transmission pan rail").... so they would not honor the green instructions. I called another mechanic shop about what their instructions show, and he confirmed that AllData does not mention anything about leveling the transmission pan itself (altho, he mentioned that he could and would fill with the transmission level).

I have no doubt that these "green instructions" are real, because they mention "Chrysler", who is apparently the ONLY manufacturer that utilizes the ZF transmissions without them being level to the floor (Ram trucks and Jeeps are the only ones, AFAIK). However, both AllData and the PDF version of the ZF instructions state only that the vehicle needs to be level.

But I'm just trying to figure out who has actually seen these green instructions in real life (aka: not on this forum)..... Do these instructions come with a brand new truck in the glove box? ... or ONLY when ordering a new transmission from a Chrysler dealership?

~~~~~~

HORRIBLE DEALERSHIP EXPERIENCE SIDE STORY (at "Cannon Coast Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram Fiat" in Pascagoula, Mississippi. The absolute WORST. Avoid like the plague!!!):

As mentioned above, taking my truck to the dealership was a HUGE mistake. I assumed that they'd know the proper way to do this transmission service, but they did not. They didn't even clean the gasket area, so there's dirt visibly between the gasket and the mating surface. When bringing it to their attention, they said "that's not important because it's not leaking -- any more". I had to bring it back, because one of the bolts was showing about 7 threads and was barely hanging on for dear life. They refused to drop the pan again to clean the gasket area, because "that fluid is expensive"... and they refused to refund even a portion of the inflated labor costs, because they "did the work", even if ALL of it was **** poor quality.

I had also asked them to do a coolant flush, and by the time I got home it was obvious that they did NOT properly bleed it. Even after bringing it back to them a second time, the coolant is STILL low after driving it home (even tho they claim they pressure tested it and there were no leaks). Absolutely TERRIBLE experience. No matter where you go, it's probably best to NOT ask them to do multiple jobs at the same time, because this tech ended up doing NEITHER job correctl

 

[lat1504]

I worked for jeep/ dodge dealership for 20 years , the factory only mentions the vehicle being leveled. This sets the trans at their desired position. If you change the suspension angle, find a factory vehicle and see what angle the trans sits at

 

[mdc1990zr1]

I worked for jeep/ dodge dealership for 20 years , the factory only mentions the vehicle being leveled. This sets the trans at their desired position. If you change the suspension angle, find a factory vehicle and see what angle the trans sits at

It does make sense to set the fluid with the vehicle level. But the green sheet appears to be a supplement. Supplements are added over time when a problem arises. ZF had to see a problem to generate that sheet and include it with the truck transmission. Other forums don’t seem to make mention of the green sheet

 

[DILLIGAF]

I worked for jeep/ dodge dealership for 20 years , the factory only mentions the vehicle being leveled.

Those same idiots say to run 0w20 in hemi's. No one cares what Dodge has to says lol.

Ill stick to what ZF recommends.

 

[Jas34]

FWIW, since the fill/check plug is close to the front of the pan, you'd think you would overfill the tranny if you failed to jack up the rear and level the transmission, probably worse than underfilling it a bit.

 

[Wild one]

FWIW, since the fill/check plug is close to the front of the pan, you'd think you would overfill the tranny if you failed to jack up the rear and level the transmission, probably worse than underfilling it a bit.

You end up under filled as the fill plug is towards the rear of the transmission.

 

[Wild one]

Hope you got your life insurance all paid up.......

Looks like he has the front wheels blocked,so it's not going anywhere. You still haven't said whether you've done a brake job in your driveway with the vehicle on jackstands and the front wheels off,that's far more dangerous
The only time you're under it while it's running,is to check the fluid level, the truck is in park,and only idling,and like i told you before,if you're really worried about it falling off the jackstands put some blocks /ramps under the rear tires,so it can only fall an inch or 2 at most.
You worry way to much dude

 

[Mojo88]

Looks like he has the front wheels blocked,so it's not going anywhere. You still haven't said whether you've done a brake job in your driveway with the vehicle on jackstands and the front wheels off,that's far more dangerous
The only time you're under it while it's running,is to check the fluid level, the truck is in park,and only idling,and like i told you before,if you're really worried about it falling off the jackstands put some blocks /ramps under the rear tires,so it can only fall an inch or 2 at most.
You worry way to much dude

LOL, that system of support he has looks like it could slip at any moment.

I've worked on cars and trucks since 1970, using a wide variety of lifts and jacks. I can quickly recall at least four separate lift-related incidents where serious injury, death, or complete vehicle destruction ALMOST occurred, but I/we got incredibly lucky each time. So yeah, I do worry every single time a vehicle is up in the air, and the concern is 100% justified.

And regarding doing a brake job in driveway while on jackstands, the answer is: nope, never done that...

 

[RamDiver]

LOL, that system of support he has looks like it could slip at any moment.

I've worked on cars and trucks since 1970, using a wide variety of lifts and jacks. I can quickly recall at least four separate lift-related incidents where serious injury, death, or complete vehicle destruction ALMOST occurred, but I/we got incredibly lucky each time. So yeah, I do worry every single time a vehicle is up in the air, and the concern is 100% justified.

And regarding doing a brake job in driveway while on jackstands, the answer is: nope, never done that...

Dave, I'm always on high alert when jacking up any vehicle. And using jack stands gets the same attention.

The larger 6-ton jack stands provide more comfort than the smaller stands because they appear much more burly.
I just measured the height to be ~15.5" to ~22.5".
And, updated from 5-ton to 6-ton after looking at them this morning.

Using the smaller rubber wheel chocks helped with my comfort level while working on smaller vehicles, but I'm not convinced they're the best for trucks. They function OK, but not great.

I solved that problem by buying large rubber chocks. They're much taller and wedge more tightly than the little car-sized chocks.

Update; the large chocks are only about an inch taller but they function far better with larger tires than the smaller set I have. I've never had any movement with the large set and they're often a PITA to remove without moving the truck.

Very often, they're wedged in so tight that, after lowering the truck, they're difficult to kick out of place with work boots.








.

 

[Jas34]

You end up under filled as the fill plug is towards the rear of the transmission.

Ha ha. That shows the state of my memory.

 

[Wild one]

LOL, that system of support he has looks like it could slip at any moment.

I've worked on cars and trucks since 1970, using a wide variety of lifts and jacks. I can quickly recall at least four separate lift-related incidents where serious injury, death, or complete vehicle destruction ALMOST occurred, but I/we got incredibly lucky each time. So yeah, I do worry every single time a vehicle is up in the air, and the concern is 100% justified.

And regarding doing a brake job in driveway while on jackstands, the answer is: nope, never done that...

He could of used bigger 6 ton stands,but he's also got the floor jack still supporting the pumpkin to.You'd have to be way overweight for a truck to crush you with the tires still on it.
I've seen more cars fall off lifts then i've seen fall off jackstands when the wheels are propely blocked.
I'm gonna guess the 4 incidents you seen were cars falling off lifts and not jackstands right
Like i told you,if you're that worried about being crushed,put some blocks or ramps under the tires that are in the air,so it can only fall a couple inches

 

[RamDiver]

Ha ha. That shows the state of my memory.

You're in good company, as far as I'm concerned.

My 5-ton jack stands were 6-ton versions when I checked.

.

 

[Mojo88]

He could of used bigger 6 ton stands,but he's also got the floor jack still supporting the pumpkin to.You'd have to be way overweight for a truck to crush you with the tires still on it.
I've seen more cars fall off lifts then i've seen fall off jackstands when the wheels are propely blocked.
I'm gonna guess the 4 incidents you seen were cars falling off lifts and not jackstands right
Like i told you,if you're that worried about being crushed,put some blocks or ramps under the tires that are in the air,so it can only fall a couple inches

Yeah, yeah, I agree, the saving grace here is the truck sits high normally, and the tires are still on.

And you're right, all 4 incidents I've been around were with lifts; only one car actually fell off, but not all the way off.