Another cam/lifter

[Ramnm08]

Here's another one for the masses. 2011 Ram 2500 5.7 with 151000 miles. All of the previously posted symptoms. P0302, changed plugs, coil and injector with no joy. I decided to go ahead and change the cam and lifters. Glad I did. #2 cylinder lifter took a poop and killed the cam as well.

 

[chrisp2493]

Sorry about your luck, that sucks


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[Ramnm08]

Thanks. It was bound to happen. Bought the truck with 147000 miles. Also, I forgot to mention that I run AMSOIL 5W30 for 2 oil changes then used 5w20 about a week before this happened. Not saying the 5w20 was the cause but it definitely expedited the process. Truck ran fine with the 5w30. I'll be switching to PUP after this gaggle.

 

[Fitz-0518]

Damn. I understand how sensitive our hemi's are to the oil we use. But ,,,, the material breakdown on these roller cams,,,still makes me suspect of what the valve train vendor is using and how they are heat treating. From all I have read, the aftermarket kits are superior to oem.

 

[Ramnewbie]

I totally understand the concern however we have no idea what that engine went thru for 147000 miles. Was it well maintained or did someone beat the hell out of it? I agree about the aftermarket kits, that's one reason I'm not that big on lifetime warranty, the dealer is just going to reinstall OEM parts. I think it's idiotic to put same parts back in and expect different outcome.

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[R.L.K.]

Here's another one for the masses. 2011 Ram 2500 5.7 with 151000 miles. All of the previously posted symptoms. P0302, changed plugs, coil and injector with no joy. I decided to go ahead and change the cam and lifters. Glad I did. #2 cylinder lifter took a poop and killed the cam as well.

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Sorry to hear of you lifter & cam issue Sir ...

Welcome to the Ram Forum from Tennessee.

Thanks for the post Sir !

PUP is a great oil imo , if your definitely gonna use PUP I'd highly recommend the 40wt PUP as it has about 4 times the Molybdenum . The 5.7L likes a high moly oil . PUP is a bit thin for it's wt meaning lower viscosity , so no worries on using the 40 wt for your 5.7L especially in the 2500.

Does your 2011 , 2500 have M.D.S. ?

What lifters and cam are you going with ?


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[meedom]

Sorry to hear of you lifter & cam issue Sir ...

Welcome to the Ram Forum from Tennessee.

Thanks for the post Sir !

PUP is a great oil imo , if your definitely gonna use PUP I'd highly recommend the 40wt PUP as it has about 4 times the Molybdenum . The 5.7L likes a high moly oil . PUP is a bit thin for it's wt meaning lower viscosity , so no worries on using the 40 wt for your 5.7L especially in the 2500.

Does your 2011 , 2500 have M.D.S. ?

What lifters and cam are you going with ?


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I always wondered if you guys liked the 5w 40 or the 10 W 40 in the PUP for moly, and what about the 10w30??

 

[StoneDude76]

I am now using the SRT 0w40. My Hemi seems to love it. I still think there is a issue with my lifters but the engine does sound and run smoother.

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[NCRaineman]

Out of curiosity, do you think it would be worth the trouble to replace the lifters at 100,000mi to try and head something like this off? Could maybe get away with just doing the lifters and not having to replace a cam. A set of lifters is only like $150.

 

[Fitz-0518]

Just one persons POV. I would never install new lifters or rollers on a old cam. Or visa versa. The rollers and the cam lobs take a set together or break in together. Now just the lifters??? would be interested in what others say. Might make sense.

 

[NCRaineman]

Just one persons POV. I would never install new lifters or rollers on a old cam. Or visa versa. The rollers and the cam lobs take a set together or break in together. Now just the lifters??? would be interested in what others say. Might make sense.

I had a lifter fail in an '03 Pontiac Grand Am (3.4L V6) a few years ago. Tore the engine down, dropped the oil pan, checked the cam and it was OK... so we slapped in a new set of lifters and buttoned her back up. Car was still running strong when I sold it to a coworker year later... and as far as I know it's still running today.

Looking at the OP's pics, if a lifter fails it's going to eat that lobe on the cam. BUT if you replace before one fails the cam shouldn't be damaged. That's what has me thinking along those lines. Would be much easier (and cheaper) to replace the lifters at 100,000 and head off a problem like this than to have one go on the other side of 100,000 and need to replace the cam as well.

 

[R.L.K.]

I always wondered if you guys liked the 5w 40 or the 10 W 40 in the PUP for moly, and what about the 10w30??

The SRT 0W-40 Has the most Molybdenum in the PUP line up , so this would be my choice in the hemi just because of the added Molybdenum .
As far as the 5W , or 10W , this mainly depends on your cold weather climate you live in . The ( W ) is just the winter rating , the lower the # the colder pour point of the oil or the colder the oil can be and still flow during a cold start .
I'm not a fan of the 0W ouls but when it comes to PUP the 0W-40 has more Molybdenum ...

I personal run Redline 10W-30 for my summer oil & Redline 5W-30 for my winter oil , I'm in NE Tennessee.Winters usually only hit the single digits at night a week or to then it's back up to the teens or more .

I do like the PUP line up of oils , but Redline has about 2-3 times the Molybdenum and keeps my 5.7 really smooth and quiet [emoji106]


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[Fitz-0518]

I had a lifter fail in an '03 Pontiac Grand Am (3.4L V6) a few years ago. Tore the engine down, dropped the oil pan, checked the cam and it was OK... so we slapped in a new set of lifters and buttoned her back up. Car was still running strong when I sold it to a coworker year later... and as far as I know it's still running today.

Looking at the OP's pics, if a lifter fails it's going to eat that lobe on the cam. BUT if you replace before one fails the cam shouldn't be damaged. That's what has me thinking along those lines. Would be much easier (and cheaper) to replace the lifters at 100,000 and head off a problem like this than to have one go on the other side of 100,000 and need to replace the cam as well.

Yep, can see that. What I do not know is,,,what is "failing first" that causes this problem. But to your point. If we go in to replace the lifters and see pristine rollers and cam lobes,,,that just might be a less expensive solution to extending the life of the valve train, or as you say preventing catastrophic cam failure. We do know that some of the tear downs we have seen, show OEM lifter seats that are off center to the push rod. A quality aftermarket lifter set,,,,another justification to replace them.

 

[69GWC]

Only problem is that you have to pull the heads to change the lifters so its not a simple quick job like it could be.

 

[NCRaineman]

Yep, can see that. What I do not know is,,,what is "failing first" that causes this problem.

I'm not an expert on this engine yet, but from the pics I've seen of failed lifters and eaten up cams it seems to me that the roller on the bottom of the lifter is the point of failure. When that collapses and stops rolling the body of the lifter then makes contact with the cam, which chews it up. The cam is just a shaped metal rod, not really anything there to fail short of it just breaking.

According to the good folks at Summit Racing it's OK to put new lifters with a good used cam, you'll just need to apply proper lubricant and break in the lifters.

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...-of-camshaft-failure-and-how-to-prevent-them/

From the couple of threads I've also read on this issue it seems this happens around 100,000mi. So if you replace them around that time you'd stand a fair chance of nipping the issue in the bud and saving your camshaft.

Only problem is that you have to pull the heads to change the lifters so its not a simple quick job like it could be.

Hmm. You can't just pull the intake manifold and access the lifters that way? I've rebuilt a couple of engines before, never done a Hemi though.

Still, even if you have to tear off the heads it's better than replacing a cam. Might as well do head gaskets and water pump while you are in there... as those are also things that tend to go around 100,000.

 

[Fitz-0518]

I'm not an expert on this engine yet, but from the pics I've seen of failed lifters and eaten up cams it seems to me that the roller on the bottom of the lifter is the point of failure. When that collapses and stops rolling the body of the lifter then makes contact with the cam, which chews it up. The cam is just a shaped metal rod, not really anything there to fail short of it just breaking.

According to the good folks at Summit Racing it's OK to put new lifters with a good used cam, you'll just need to apply proper lubricant and break in the lifters.

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...-of-camshaft-failure-and-how-to-prevent-them/

From the couple of threads I've also read on this issue it seems this happens around 100,000mi. So if you replace them around that time you'd stand a fair chance of nipping the issue in the bud and saving your camshaft.




Hmm. You can't just pull the intake manifold and access the lifters that way? I've rebuilt a couple of engines before, never done a Hemi though.

Still, even if you have to tear off the heads it's better than replacing a cam. Might as well do head gaskets and water pump while you are in there... as those are also things that tend to go around 100,000.

Makes perfect sense.

 

[NCRaineman]

Makes perfect sense.

Now the real question... has anyone tried it yet or is everyone just running 'em until they break?

 

[69GWC]

I'm not an expert on this engine yet, but from the pics I've seen of failed lifters and eaten up cams it seems to me that the roller on the bottom of the lifter is the point of failure. When that collapses and stops rolling the body of the lifter then makes contact with the cam, which chews it up. The cam is just a shaped metal rod, not really anything there to fail short of it just breaking.

According to the good folks at Summit Racing it's OK to put new lifters with a good used cam, you'll just need to apply proper lubricant and break in the lifters.

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...-of-camshaft-failure-and-how-to-prevent-them/

From the couple of threads I've also read on this issue it seems this happens around 100,000mi. So if you replace them around that time you'd stand a fair chance of nipping the issue in the bud and saving your camshaft.




Hmm. You can't just pull the intake manifold and access the lifters that way? I've rebuilt a couple of engines before, never done a Hemi though.

Still, even if you have to tear off the heads it's better than replacing a cam. Might as well do head gaskets and water pump while you are in there... as those are also things that tend to go around 100,000.

The lifters are under the heads more or less not like a old small block chevy or the like.
It sucks if it was nor like that I would be looking at swapping them for some aftermarket lifters myself.

 

[chrisp2493]

Out of curiosity, do you think it would be worth the trouble to replace the lifters at 100,000mi to try and head something like this off? Could maybe get away with just doing the lifters and not having to replace a cam. A set of lifters is only like $150.

A set of 4 lifters are about $100-$150. You need 16. Plus pulling the heads, new head bolts and head gaskets, and you’re still running the chance of the problem being a weak cam lobe. If you aren’t doin it yourself labor isn’t cheap either.


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[chrisp2493]

I'm not an expert on this engine yet, but from the pics I've seen of failed lifters and eaten up cams it seems to me that the roller on the bottom of the lifter is the point of failure. When that collapses and stops rolling the body of the lifter then makes contact with the cam, which chews it up. The cam is just a shaped metal rod, not really anything there to fail short of it just breaking.

According to the good folks at Summit Racing it's OK to put new lifters with a good used cam, you'll just need to apply proper lubricant and break in the lifters.

http://www.onallcylinders.com/2015/...-of-camshaft-failure-and-how-to-prevent-them/

From the couple of threads I've also read on this issue it seems this happens around 100,000mi. So if you replace them around that time you'd stand a fair chance of nipping the issue in the bud and saving your camshaft.




Hmm. You can't just pull the intake manifold and access the lifters that way? I've rebuilt a couple of engines before, never done a Hemi though.

Still, even if you have to tear off the heads it's better than replacing a cam. Might as well do head gaskets and water pump while you are in there... as those are also things that tend to go around 100,000.

Yeah definitely have to pull the heads. And the entire front of the engine has to come off to access the cam. One poster mentioned trying to inspect the cam lobes when he was just thinking about replacing the lifters, but there’s no way to see those unless you remove the cam. Which means removing all the front accessories and timing cover, timing components, oil pump..etc...at that point just replace the cam. Here is a pic of the block so you can see where the lifters are located on the Hemi


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