Synthetic Oil

[tidefan1967]

@Burla - I just tried Mobil 1 EP 5W-20 in my HEMI. It sucks. But hey, the fuel mileage is awesome, the valvetrain noise not so much. I'll fill you in later.

Yep its been said more than once here on the forum that Mobil 1 (quite a few different types and weights) made the Hemi sound like a "thresher".....................

 

[Hemi395]

I can't even log into RamForum through Tapatalk

Yeah don't hold your breath for tapatalk to come back....

Tapatalk Plugin down/Support Removed ???

I can't seem to login to the forum with the Tapatalk App this evening? Anyone else?

www.ramforum.com

 

[Rod Knock]

Yep its been said more than once here on the forum that Mobil 1 (quite a few different types and weights) made the Hemi sound like a "thresher".....................

Which 5W-20 doesn't make it sound like a "thresher"? PUP and PP 5W-20 (which might be the same oil in a different jug) make the engine just as noisy. I'm about to go to Castrol EDGE 0W-40, because M1 FS 0W-40, while an improvement, wasn't that big of an improvement, but the MPG sure saw a dip. If I take an MPG hit, at least I want a nice sounding motor

Due to their pursuit of better fuel mileage, Chrysler built the 5.7 cam phasing system and MDS around 5W-20. Unfortunately, only low viscosity oil can allow these to react fast enough to engine loads and demands. I'm 110% sure that if anyone went to an even thinner oil in a HEMI, the fuel savings would be even bigger. However, the valve train wasn't built for low viscosity oil.

Lubegard Bio-Tech is a nice additive for cleaning an engine but doesn't do much else. I've seen it before remove varnish left from cheap motor oil. However, it took several thousand miles to do its job. That's because the friction modifier needs to be part of the oil formulation to avoid competing for the surface, like Moly in RedLine, for example.

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 uses a Titanium-based friction modifier. As a result, it activates at a lower temperature than Moly-based friction modifiers. Are there others here running Castrol EDGE 0W-40 in their HEMIs?

@Hemi395 What's your take on this?

I got a magnetic drain plug, and every time I drain the oil, I still get a few larger metallic particles that I can see sparkling in the sunlight. I'm at 36,000 miles. Could that be debris leftover from the assembly process?

 

[Rod Knock]

@Hemi395 @Burla @HEMIMANN @Travis8352 and everyone else: there is no "fixing" this. It looks like the forum software was upgraded to XenForo 2.2. Tapatalk needs to catch up. I don't use Tapatalk.

 

[Smokey613]

Which 5W-20 doesn't make it sound like a "thresher"? PUP and PP 5W-20 (which might be the same oil in a different jug) make the engine just as noisy. I'm about to go to Castrol EDGE 0W-40, because M1 FS 0W-40, while an improvement, wasn't that big of an improvement, but the MPG sure saw a dip. If I take an MPG hit, at least I want a nice sounding motor

Due to their pursuit of better fuel mileage, Chrysler built the 5.7 cam phasing system and MDS around 5W-20. Unfortunately, only low viscosity oil can allow these to react fast enough to engine loads and demands. I'm 110% sure that if anyone went to an even thinner oil in a HEMI, the fuel savings would be even bigger. However, the valve train wasn't built for low viscosity oil.

Lubegard Bio-Tech is a nice additive for cleaning an engine but doesn't do much else. I've seen it before remove varnish left from cheap motor oil. However, it took several thousand miles to do its job. That's because the friction modifier needs to be part of the oil formulation to avoid competing for the surface, like Moly in RedLine, for example.

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 uses a Titanium-based friction modifier. As a result, it activates at a lower temperature than Moly-based friction modifiers. Are there others here running Castrol EDGE 0W-40 in their HEMIs?

@Hemi395 What's your take on this?

I got a magnetic drain plug, and every time I drain the oil, I still get a few larger metallic particles that I can see sparkling in the sunlight. I'm at 36,000 miles. Could that be debris leftover from the assembly process?

All I know is since I started adding a bottle of LG at each oil change, my Hemi is quite as a church mouse. I used to get the occasional tick on startup but so far no ticks (or fleas for that matter. ) I will not repeat the M1 in any event, not sure what to use. I guess I will get some "approved" oil and keep using the LG. I have no complaints about it's effectiveness.

 

[Rod Knock]

All I know is since I started adding a bottle of LG at each oil change, my Hemi is quite as a church mouse. I used to get the occasional tick on startup but so far no ticks (or fleas for that matter. ) I will not repeat the M1 in any event, not sure what to use. I guess I will get some "approved" oil and keep using the LG. I have no complaints about it's effectiveness.

The 5W-20 gets good MPG. It's visibly better than with thicker oil. Why Chrysler never updated the valvetrain on these engines to work properly with 5W-20 is beyond me. I think it's a viscosity thing, no so much brand-related. PYB 5W-20 is thicker than synthetics, that's why it doesn't sound like a complete "tresher" on it.

 

[RamHemi18]

Did my first oil change yesterday on my 18 ram 5.7 (bought used in April). Changed out the dealer supplied oil (probably conventional and mopar filter. Went with Quaker State Full Synthetic and a mobil 1 filter. Also added a bottle of lubegard which I got from O'Riley's. So far butter smooth and quiet. I will update if there's any changes. So far happy with my decision

 

[Rod Knock]

Did my first oil change yesterday on my 18 ram 5.7 (bought used in April). Changed out the dealer supplied oil (probably conventional and morpar filter. Went with Quaker State Full Synthetic and a mobil 1 filter. Also added a bottle of lubegard which I got from O'Riley's. So far butter smooth and quiet. I will update if there's any changes. So far happy with my decision

The valvetrain on these HEMIs is very noisy. The sound insulation on 4th gen. RAMs is crap. The only thing that quiets down the valvetrain is more viscous and denser oil. You can dump boatloads of Lubegard in there if you want to. Can you hear your valvetrain at 2500~3000 rpm when the engine is not under any load? Find a hill, put it in second, and let it roll down. You should start hearing it. I'd be curious if you and others that run 5W-20 ILSAC oil can hear it. On the 5th gen RAMs, Chrysler beefed up the sound insulation in the firewall, so the valvetrain doesn't resonate anymore. But when you pop the hood, the HEMIs still sound trashy on thin oil.

I guess for me. It comes to this: do I use the thin oil and enjoy the fuel savings or do I use a thick oil and potentially prolong the engine's life. Lubegard is good stuff, but it doesn't do what some people think it does because it was developed during the API SJ/SL days, and that was a long time ago. The only magic I think Lubegard does is that the Moly gets attached to the needle bearings inside the roller lifters. But that's a wild guess on my, and I have ZERO proof for this assumption.

 

[Smokey613]

I'd be curious if you and others that run 5W-20 ILSAC oil can hear it. On the 5th gen RAMs, Chrysler beefed up the sound insulation in the firewall, so the valvetrain doesn't resonate anymore. But when you pop the hood, the HEMIs still sound trashy on thin oil.

The only time I hear "noise" from the Hemi is when my wife is passing someone and it's screaming. BTW, it is HER truck, not mine.

 

[Travis8352]

 

[Travis8352]

2 hour drive with m1 0w40. Cruise set at 62 most of the way

 

[Rod Knock]

View attachment 332867

Do you go hammer down and get that fuel economy number, or do you go 55? Because eI get 19mpg while hammering it and doing 80~85. It's like now it can run the camphaser properly and the MDS as it has enough oil flow, given the thinner oil and larger filter. It sounds like crap though.

It's with with 0W-40 the computer doesn't put the cam in any kind of efficiency mode. It's more pronounced when I tow as it drops sharply to 12 mpg when towing anything above 1000 lbs.

 

[Smokey613]

On our recent shake down camping trip pulling the Jayco 21QB, as loaded about 5300 lbs, we averaged 11.7 for the trip.

 

[Rod Knock]

On our recent shake down camping trip pulling the Jayco 21QB, as loaded about 5300 lbs, we averaged 11.7 for the trip.

What oil and filter combo?

 

[HEMIMANN]

Which 5W-20 doesn't make it sound like a "thresher"? PUP and PP 5W-20 (which might be the same oil in a different jug) make the engine just as noisy. I'm about to go to Castrol EDGE 0W-40, because M1 FS 0W-40, while an improvement, wasn't that big of an improvement, but the MPG sure saw a dip. If I take an MPG hit, at least I want a nice sounding motor

Due to their pursuit of better fuel mileage, Chrysler built the 5.7 cam phasing system and MDS around 5W-20. Unfortunately, only low viscosity oil can allow these to react fast enough to engine loads and demands. I'm 110% sure that if anyone went to an even thinner oil in a HEMI, the fuel savings would be even bigger. However, the valve train wasn't built for low viscosity oil.

Lubegard Bio-Tech is a nice additive for cleaning an engine but doesn't do much else. I've seen it before remove varnish left from cheap motor oil. However, it took several thousand miles to do its job. That's because the friction modifier needs to be part of the oil formulation to avoid competing for the surface, like Moly in RedLine, for example.

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 uses a Titanium-based friction modifier. As a result, it activates at a lower temperature than Moly-based friction modifiers. Are there others here running Castrol EDGE 0W-40 in their HEMIs?

@Hemi395 What's your take on this?

I got a magnetic drain plug, and every time I drain the oil, I still get a few larger metallic particles that I can see sparkling in the sunlight. I'm at 36,000 miles. Could that be debris leftover from the assembly process?

Are you saying the cam phaser in 6.4L truck engine is different than 5.7L such that 0W-40 doesn't affect response? I don't think that's the case. 5W-20 was recommended in the 5.7L Hemi for miniscule fuel savings only. Remember, the 5.7 was exclusively in the half ton trucks, which are subject to US EPA CAFE fuel mileage requirements. The new HD's with that engine weren't offered until years later.

People running 5W-30 in 5.7's report no issues. I'm running 5W-30 Red Line in my 6.4L Hemi without issue.

 

[Smokey613]

What oil and filter combo?

M1 5W-20 ( LG add ) and a standard Wix filter. Our next oil change I plan to pay closer attention and probably supply my own oil and filter if they do not have what I want.

 

[tidefan1967]

I care about gas mileage but not enough to use 5W20. If my engine is quiet I sleep better at night. As one who has run every version oF Pennzoil 5W20 from PYB to PUP and had cam/lifter problems it’s just not worth the risk to me. Maybe another brand of 5W20 might be better but I don’t plan on finding out.

 

[Fishstickz]

They need to fix how this new site works with tapatalk, I'm getting no notifications from anything....

I think they’re doing away with tapatalk entirely

 

[Rod Knock]

Are you saying the cam phaser in 6.4L truck engine is different than 5.7L such that 0W-40 doesn't affect response? I don't think that's the case. 5W-20 was recommended in the 5.7L Hemi for miniscule fuel savings only. Remember, the 5.7 was exclusively in the half ton trucks, which are subject to US EPA CAFE fuel mileage requirements. The new HD's with that engine weren't offered until years later.

People running 5W-30 in 5.7's report no issues. I'm running 5W-30 Red Line in my 6.4L Hemi without issue.

I'm thinking about ECM programming. It's not hard for the ECM to detect if you're running a higher viscosity oil in the 5.7 and if that's the case, then it won't give you maximum efficiency. All it needs is a flow meter (the oil pump itself), oil pressure sensor, and oil temperature sensor. If it's not in the range it expects it to be, then it might not even bother with the cam phaser and/or MDS. And we don't have a way of knowing except the inexplicable drop in fuel economy that I see with running a thicker oil. Yes, Chrysler might have been that sneaky. Maybe their motivation was to limit the truck's capabilities and in case anyone tried to use a better oil to cut the gas mileage. It might be for the same reason that they cook these engines to death when they don't really need to run as hot as they do. I wouldn't put it past Chrysler.

The drop in temperature and the larger oil filter might help as well. As the engine is no longer heat soaked, there is no reason for the ECM to back down on anything now. I was pushing uphill on the highway doing 80. On an 85F day, on the same stretch, the instant MPG gauge showed 7mpg, now it was show 12mpg, and I had my foot down.

I am not talking placebo here. It's easy to get a placebo when you baby the truck. By I didn't baby it during this test, I gave it the beans. The engine sounds trashy though on this oil. The valvetrain is very noisy. I might even have a cold piston slap.

When I start the truck cold I hear a noise from the right cylinder bank. It sounds like gently tapping a metal pipe with a spoon. It goes away completely only when the engine is at operating temperature and ran for a while. With 0W-40 it was less noticeable and it was going away way quicker. If I sit down at the rear of the truck I can hear it in the right exhaust pipe. I wonder what it is. What do you think it is?

 

[Rod Knock]

I care about gas mileage but not enough to use 5W20. If my engine is quiet I sleep better at night. As one who has run every version oF Pennzoil 5W20 from PYB to PUP and had cam/lifter problems it’s just not worth the risk to me. Maybe another brand of 5W20 might be better but I don’t plan on finding out.

A 5.7 HEMI will sound like a rust bucket filled with bolts and hauled by a monkey no matter what 5W-20 you dump in it. I tried Castrol EDGE EP 5W-20 last year before I went to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 and it sounded just as bad as it sounds with Mobil 1 EP 5W-20. The only difference was that back then I didn't do any mods to the truck and was running the small filter, so my MPG was just average. I had to baby it to get 19 mpg on 5W-20 back then. That's no longer the case. But it sounds awful.