What if they have it wrong about flat tappet cams and zinc? What if zinc was just a bargain that helped a little? What if high molybdenum and poe base oils protect those flat tappets better then zinc? What if high moly and poe plus zinc made those flat tappets damn near bullet proof? Of the 100 or so ram forum members who had lifter tick prior to killing those ticks with redline 5w30 or even lubegard, how many do you think had faulty needle bearings? 10% maybe 20? Faulty lifter bearing = flat tappet?
Every single engine builder absolutely hammers using moly lube at break in with barely a word about zinc. The use of heavy zinc becomes relevant because of what it does in oil. I don't know how moly became the ugly sister to zinc, but I wonder how much testing was actually done on this, especially considering the results of our testing. We had many guys test zinc/zddp additives and nada, did nothing for hemi tick, unless that zinc was nestled in the bosom of moly and ester base oils. If you had a flat tappet I guarantee you would use an oil made for it, shouldn't hemi's have a hemi specific oil with different base oils and high moly? Oh wait they already do, just not for the 1500.
More specific, why did fca require high moly for their hemi specific oil but not high zinc like they do in flat tappet cams? Maybe it is what is absent that tells the story?
@Burla, remember the SRT8 oil recommendation? It was: 5W-40 that carried an MB229.3 or 229.5 approval. They had this requirement even after Chrysler split from Daimler. As a bonus, unless it was an MB-specific oil, most of those oils also carry a Porsche A40 approval. And yes, Porsche has made pushrod and V8 engines. With MS-12633 Chrysler wanted to have their own mid-SAPS 0W-40 oil, like GM does. Except that there is Dexos 2 approved Castrol EDGE 0W-40 (mid-SAPS), Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40, and so on. You can check the Dexos 2 website. Pennzoil's mistake was that they didn't get PUP SRT 0W-40 Dexos 2 approved. They would have sold more of it. The reason why they didn't get it approved is two-fold: 1) it doesn't pass the Dexos 2 requirements 2) FCA wanted to have some coverage in case of warranty claims. Legally speaking, MS-12633 can't hold up in court for several reasons, and then there is the Magnuson Moss act. Of course, the average consumer doesn't have the time and resources to fight them. My point is that there isn't anything special about it. Valvoline Extended Protection 5W-20 has 300ppm of Moly in it. Why isn't everyone running it in their HEMI?
You can buy straight MoDTC ?
they sell some other goodies as well, but you might have to buy a lot.
That's the same stuff that's in Lubegard Biotech. Funny enough, Lubegard contains a second Phosphorus based friction modifier, I forgot what it's called.
I am not discounting Red Line oil for what it does. It's expensive track oil and it was never formulated specifically for the HEMI. From everything I've seen it doesn't really produce better wear results than other oils, that's why it's a track oil. What it's good at is standing up to heat and maintaining MOFT at temperatures that ILSAC oils will just quit.
Needle bearings need a friction modifier to combat wear. I've replaced U-Joints on big rigs several times and what killed them was either dirt, lack of lubrication, lack of maintenance, or just plain wear. A million miles is a lot. I usually greased them with Moly grease on a regular basis. I use Moly grease for a lot of things, I like it.
Motor oils have evolved, and both Mobil 1 and Castrol are ahead of the curve. With their latest iteration of 0W-20 and 5W-20, Castrol EDGE EP now claims ACEA C5. This oil has some amazing ester-based friction modifiers in it to meet the fuel requirements of ACEA C5. The 0W-20 is also MB229.71 approved, which is based on ACEA C5 with slightly tighter requirements. The beauty of it is that their 5W-20 is the same formulation as 0W-20 except that the 0W-20 has a lower poor point. Friction modifiers have evolved beyond Moly.
What quiets the HEMI? Viscous oil, pure and simple. The valvetrain is noisy, and viscous oil quiets it down. To be more accurate, it makes it less noticeable, but unless it's a good oil in there, viscosity alone won't do much for a HEMI.
What kills lifters? Several things. Lifter contamination during assembly, or contamination after the fact with debris, varnish, neglect, oil starvation, inability to maintain MOFT due to heat.
What I'm trying to say is that there is more to preventing lifter failure in these engines than just "pour some RedLine in it or add Lubegard Bio-Tech."
I managed to get the engine to run cooler, so now I can run 5W-20 if I choose to do so because now the engine can actually maintain MOFT. People who never think twice about it and run whatever cheap 5W-20 (Valvoline is there too), and idle their HEMIs at 220F oil temperature or above for extended periods of time will experience lifter failure guaranteed. So will those that tow heavy and experience oil temperatures of 240F or above while towing. In this scenario, even 0W-40 isn't guaranteed to save their bacon. Maybe Red Line 5W-30, because it can take more abuse. That's why the manifold bolts snap as well, high heat. We can debate this until the end of time, but the fact is that a lot of people show up here after years of neglect and want help with their ticking HEMI. The HEMI is a ticking time bomb, and if you don't take care of it, it will chew the cam to the bone and you will be left without a motor.
