- Joined
- Dec 7, 2020
- Posts
- 6,891
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- Location
- Minneapolis, MN
- Ram Year
- 2017 2500 Laramie Crew Cab
- Engine
- 6.4L HEMI
Too many added gizmos = too many added potential failure points.
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I know an engine builder who rebuilds HEMIs, amongst other engines. He also owns a machine shop. We've become friends, and of course, I discussed the HEMI more than once with him. He said that the biggest failure point are the lifters.Too many added gizmos = too many added potential failure points.
Would have to disagree, I’ve seen 0 evidence that mds lifters fail more often than non mds lifters.I know an engine builder who rebuilds HEMIs, amongst other engines. He also owns a machine shop. We've become friends, and of course, I discussed the HEMI more than once with him. He said that the biggest failure point are the lifters.
His opinion was that from the moment you start up a new HEMI it's on a countdown timer until you experience lifter failure.
MDS lifters wear out faster than non-MDS lifters due to their internal mechanism. So how you take care of your HEMI is very important.
That would be the short and dumbed-down version of it.
Good oil and a big filter, along with frequent oil changes is a good way to keep a HEMI happy and running for a long time.
This is what I said above:Would have to disagree, I’ve seen 0 evidence that mds lifters fail more often than non mds lifters.
The internal mechanism wears out due to engaging and disengaging. It causes them to rattle/tick. I did not say the failure rate is higher, but clearly, there are more components involved that wear out.MDS lifters wear out faster than non-MDS lifters due to their internal mechanism.
I think you nailed it!The only way to get an audible tick is if the hydrologic section of the lifter fails to adjust the valve train to zero clearance. When this happens, the lifter will loose contact with the cam over the nose and hammer the roller segment when contact is made. This is what kills roller lifters. The whole idea behind needle bearing roller lifters is that the lubrication required is much less than a flat tappet design.
I personally suspect that the initial tapping is being caused by a varnish in the hydrologic section of the lifter that may make them sticky (for lack of a better term). I also suspect the redline is so successful because of it's cleaning ability moreso than the higher molly.
I did not say no lubrication is required. The ep required is much less than a flat tappet. The metal based ep additives we're removed for emission system longevity as they will kill catalytic converters. This is the reason for roller cams. The additional mass in a roller lifter requires more spring to maintain valve train control. The savings in frictional changes in the valve train is not enough to matter vs flat tappet. Journal bearing is different in that it requires a constant fluid film to prevent contact. An air bubble in the film is very detrimental to the films ability to carry a load. This is not the case with roller bearings. If the failures were oil supply or construction materials related , they would all be failing at very similar intervals.No it is not. The 'whole idea' behind any rolling element bearing is reduction in friction compared to sliding surfaces, whether journal bearings or cams.
The lubrication of rolling element bearings is far more critical, because they are never subject to full oil film lubrication. They operate in the boundary lubrication regime of elastohydrodynamic lubrication.
I can send a screen shot for textbooks you can read if you'd like.
Be careful. You might start making too much sense.I did not say no lubrication is required. The ep required is much less than a flat tappet. The metal based ep additives we're removed for emission system longevity as they will kill catalytic converters. This is the reason for roller cams. The additional mass in a roller lifter requires more spring to maintain valve train control. The savings in frictional changes in the valve train is not enough to matter vs flat tappet. Journal bearing is different in that it requires a constant fluid film to prevent contact. An air bubble in the film is very detrimental to the films ability to carry a load. This is not the case with roller bearings. If the failures were oil supply or construction materials related , they would all be failing at very similar intervals.
One constant I have noticed in all tear down videos and photos I have seen is varnish build up on non contact surfaces. This is another reason for my suspicion of the hydrologic section getting sticky. I also know that if the "tick" is happening due to slack in the roller bearing segment, no oil will ever solve the problem as it's too late.
Im again debating hpl as my mobil 1 stash is dwindlingBe careful. You might start making too much sense.
Seriously though, it's not just varnish. It's polymerization. Crappy run-off-the-mill lubes that run in a hot engine (the HEMI is set way too hot from the factory) will polymerize and turn into sticky gunk. That's cheap base oils and cheap VII for you. Out-of-tolerance lifters that came from the supplier are also a problem. Quality control is something they never actually fixed.
@Wild one ran his HEMI on Red Line 5W-30 for 100K miles before he tore it down to upgrade it. It was like new inside. But he also ran a 160F thermostat. When I had my RAM 1500, I put a 180F racing thermostat in it and performed a grille shutter delete. That took care of all the overheating issues. That engine is spotless inside. It ran mostly Mobil 1 FS 0W-40, and some Red Line 5W-30. Next oil change it will get some expensive flavor of 5W-20: Red Line, AMSOIL, or possibly HPL. My dad has the truck now.
HPL Supercar 0W-40 would be your oil, however, it's three to four times as expensive as Mobil 1 FS 0W-40: https://www.advlubrication.com/coll...s/super-car-engine-oil?variant=41318128713921Im again debating hpl as my mobil 1 stash is dwindling
No way not at that price. For some reason i thought their oil was around 14 a quartHPL Supercar 0W-40 would be your oil, however, it's three to four times as expensive as Mobil 1 FS 0W-40: https://www.advlubrication.com/coll...s/super-car-engine-oil?variant=41318128713921
At $100 for 6 quarts, I just don't see it. You can get 20 quarts of Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 for that much money. I seriously question if HPL Supercar 0W-40 is any better than Mobil 1 FS 0W-40.
I did not say no lubrication is required. The ep required is much less than a flat tappet. The metal based ep additives we're removed for emission system longevity as they will kill catalytic converters. This is the reason for roller cams. The additional mass in a roller lifter requires more spring to maintain valve train control. The savings in frictional changes in the valve train is not enough to matter vs flat tappet. Journal bearing is different in that it requires a constant fluid film to prevent contact. An air bubble in the film is very detrimental to the films ability to carry a load. This is not the case with roller bearings. If the failures were oil supply or construction materials related , they would all be failing at very similar intervals.
One constant I have noticed in all tear down videos and photos I have seen is varnish build up on non contact surfaces. This is another reason for my suspicion of the hydrologic section getting sticky. I also know that if the "tick" is happening due to slack in the roller bearing segment, no oil will ever solve the problem as it's too late.
I'll PM you something really interesting in a minute.No way not at that price. For some reason i thought their oil was around 14 a quart
Low viscosity GTL and a boatload of cheap VII? Thanks, but no, thanks. They can keep it.rare sale pup 0w40, 6 pack on sale
I had better luck PUP 0w20 and 5w20 in my wife Journey's with 3.3 V6 then I did with Mobil One, Mobile One would trip oil change indicator at around 5000 miles, then local dealer in IA suggested I switch to PUP, I did and it never did trip oil change indicator again even the one time it got changed out at just over 8K, most of the time it averaged 7K per 6 months of usage...Low viscosity GTL and a boatload of cheap VII? Thanks, but no, thanks. They can keep it.
PUP seems to have the best uoa's around historically. They must be doing something right. I have used it in the wife's car most of it's life, way better then everything else I tried.I had better luck PUP 0w20 and 5w20 in my wife Journey's with 3.3 V6 then I did with Mobil One, Mobile One would trip oil change indicator at around 5000 miles, then local dealer in IA suggested I switch to PUP, I did and it never did trip oil change indicator again even the one time it got changed out at just over 8K, most of the time it averaged 7K per 6 months of usage...
The oil change indicator/computer has no way of knowing what motor oil you have in the crankcase. All it does is measure miles and idle time. For all Chrysler vehicles we had in the past or currently own, it's been 1% / 100 miles. For example, at 1000 miles on new oil, the OLM was at 90%. If idle time was higher, it might have been at 89%~88% at the same mileage. It didn't matter if the engine was running on Castrol EDGE EP 5W-20, Mobil 1 EP 5W-20 / FS 0W-40, PUP 5W-20, or Red Line 5W-30.I had better luck PUP 0w20 and 5w20 in my wife Journey's with 3.3 V6 then I did with Mobil One, Mobile One would trip oil change indicator at around 5000 miles, then local dealer in IA suggested I switch to PUP, I did and it never did trip oil change indicator again even the one time it got changed out at just over 8K, most of the time it averaged 7K per 6 months of usage...