Fifth Wheels By Keystone For 1500

[ramffml]

You guys see a few random trailers tossing a truck around and now suddenly in your mind that truck can't tow safely. When I am on the road during peak towing season, I see hundreds of RVs all safely and responsibly being towed by half tons. The VAST majority are towed safely. Finding a few once in a while that look like a long running accident in progress doesn't take away that most get through life with zero issues, zero white knuckling, zero accidents etc etc.

 

[tron67j]

You keep saying 'you guys' for those that you believe are attacking your experience and I assume you include me in that statement due to your recent response. I am going to defend my general statements by highlighting your own description of driving safely with a maxed weight rig at 75mph with 2 fingers. I say maxed because you aren't sharing actual numbers and then use 13% as tongue weight ratio instead of generally used 15%, and at 8,000 pounds that is significant.

You are welcome to have last word on my last post in this thread, I find it is now gone off track and isn't really helpful, which is what we all want to be and why we share information with those who ask for it.

 

[Randy Grant]

Having towed 8k with a half ton, I respectfully disagree. I am MUCH more comfortable having 8k behind my 2500 than I am having it behind a half ton.

As I said (and no I'm not missing the point), will a half ton do it? Yeah. Is it the best tool for the job? Not really, if you're doing it often I'd step up a truck. Is it going to blow up? No. Can it be done safely? Sure, if you're willing to take it easy and do everything in your power to stay out of sketchy situations.

The sad reality is that there are a LOT of people out there who don't understand these things, and don't know how to tow safely. Those people are the reason I advocate for stepping up a truck size if you're inexperienced. Better to have more than you need to keep you safe, than be riding the edge as an inexperienced driver and end up doing something that hurts a LOT of people.

You are right, there are people out there who have no business towing. And I see them all the time in our RV park, with all manner of outfits. Size of tow vehicle and size of trailer have nothing to do with it for the most part. Stupid people do stupid $h!t, and that is a fact. If you are comfortable with your setup, good for you. Stay with it, and be safe. But even if you are unloaded and someone cuts you off in the wrong situation, everything is going south, no matter what you do or what you are driving. Don't believe me? Watch it on you tube.

 

[Randy Grant]

You keep saying 'you guys' for those that you believe are attacking your experience and I assume you include me in that statement due to your recent response. I am going to defend my general statements by highlighting your own description of driving safely with a maxed weight rig at 75mph with 2 fingers. I say maxed because you aren't sharing actual numbers and then use 13% as tongue weight ratio instead of generally used 15%, and at 8,000 pounds that is significant.

You are welcome to have last word on my last post in this thread, I find it is now gone off track and isn't really helpful, which is what we all want to be and why we share information with those who ask for it.

Big dif between sharing info and getting into a p!$$!ng match, which is what has happened here, as in most towing discussions.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

There's no such thing as a 1/2 ton towable fifth wheel regardless of what advertisements say. It's a marketing gimmick. You run out of payload on all of the 1/2 tons.

Wrong:

Scamp Lite Fifth Wheel RV Travel Trailers - 5th Wheel Campers - Deluxe Layout A - Scamp Trailers

Deluxe 19 Foot Layout A. Lightweight for easy towing, Scamp 5th wheel travel trailer camper sleeps up to 6 with queen size bed and nice amenities.

www.scamptrailers.com

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Hello,

I was reading regarding a fifth wheel trailer that’s rated for 1/2 ton trucks by Keystone, Curious if anyone has purchased a trailer from them or similar and what experience you have had with it. Towing and handling of it, compared to a bumper pull trailer. Thank you for the info.

Not Keystone
This:

Scamp Lite Fifth Wheel RV Travel Trailers - 5th Wheel Campers - Deluxe Layout A - Scamp Trailers

Deluxe 19 Foot Layout A. Lightweight for easy towing, Scamp 5th wheel travel trailer camper sleeps up to 6 with queen size bed and nice amenities.

www.scamptrailers.com

 

[ramffml]

You keep saying 'you guys' for those that you believe are attacking your experience and I assume you include me in that statement due to your recent response. I am going to defend my general statements by highlighting your own description of driving safely with a maxed weight rig at 75mph with 2 fingers. I say maxed because you aren't sharing actual numbers and then use 13% as tongue weight ratio instead of generally used 15%, and at 8,000 pounds that is significant.

You are welcome to have last word on my last post in this thread, I find it is now gone off track and isn't really helpful, which is what we all want to be and why we share information with those who ask for it.

No one here is complaining about being "attacked". Sheesh. I said "you guys" because it appears to be me having the dissenting opinion vs a few others of you and I'm not responding to every individual post.

You didn't even read that post correctly. I said the truck did it at that speed with 1 finger and thumb, but (crucially) I also said I don't recommend driving like that. In other words, the truck was not feeling stressed in the slightest. No white knuckling, no sway, more than enough power, more than enough brakes.

I've always been an advocate for towing at 105 kph, and that's what I normally do. But I absolutely have brought my truck and trailer up to that speed, I want to know where its limits are and how it feels at that speed. And it handled it perfectly fine, like it should.

 

[nlambert182]

Big dif between sharing info and getting into a p!$$!ng match, which is what has happened here, as in most towing discussions.

Still waiting on that payload sticker pic.

 

[nlambert182]

No. The 1500 is designed to tow 8000 pounds safely in the work truck and volume selling trims. My truck has 1750 pounds of payload available; 8000 * 0.13 = 1050 pounds. Tons of room left over for a few occupants.

Again, your problem is that you're trying to equate operator competence with the trucks ability, that's incorrect.

Would you say the corvette is a slow car because the bulk of its buyers are retired guys who like to golf and putt putt to and fro from the coffee shop? No. It's a wicked fast car, despite how its often used.

You absolutely CAN safely and responsibly tow an 8000 pound trailer with my truck. That others sometimes don't doesn't negate the fact that it absolutely CAN.

8000 * 15% = 1,200 lbs. (No one calculates tongue weight on 13%.)
1750-1200 = 550 available payload
2 * 150 lb ea occupants = 300 lbs
550 - 300 = 250 available payload.

If neither occupant weighs more than 150 lbs (unlikely), you never have more than 2 people, you never add anything in the bed, you've never added a bed cover, running boards, etc... you're right. You're still in.

 

[ramffml]

8000 * 15% = 1,200 lbs. (No one calculates tongue weight on 13%.)
1750-1200 = 550 available payload
2 * 150 lb ea occupants = 300 lbs
550 - 300 = 250 available payload.

If neither occupant weighs more than 150 lbs (unlikely), you never have more than 2 people, you never add anything in the bed, you've never added a bed cover, running boards, etc... you're right. You're still in.

You're cherry picking your data. Typical RV TW is 10 to 15 percent, so typical remaining payload would be between 950 pounds and 550 pounds.

All kinds of people can make this work. Single guys, retired folk, couples, couples with 2 or 3 young kids etc.

I do consider 8000 pounds a pretty good "max" for a half ton, but there are many many cases of people who can make this work safely and reliably. To suggest otherwise is just being stubborn at this point.

 

[ramffml]

8000 * 15% = 1,200 lbs. (No one calculates tongue weight on 13%.)
1750-1200 = 550 available payload
2 * 150 lb ea occupants = 300 lbs
550 - 300 = 250 available payload.

If neither occupant weighs more than 150 lbs (unlikely), you never have more than 2 people, you never add anything in the bed, you've never added a bed cover, running boards, etc... you're right. You're still in.

You posted your payload of your truck earlier on, it's got even less than mine

Are you suggesting your 2500 can't pull an 8000 pound trailer?

Fifth Wheels By Keystone For 1500

It seems to me like must of us end up already having a truck and then get the bug to buy a camper.mmsomwe wnat to know what we can tow with what we have. So what information do we know? For the truck we have VIN specific information from the sticker. But even that dooesnt tell the whole...

www.ramforum.com

 

[nlambert182]

You posted your payload of your truck earlier on, it's got even less than mine

Are you suggesting your 2500 can't pull an 8000 pound trailer?

Fifth Wheels By Keystone For 1500

It seems to me like must of us end up already having a truck and then get the bug to buy a camper.mmsomwe wnat to know what we can tow with what we have. So what information do we know? For the truck we have VIN specific information from the sticker. But even that dooesnt tell the whole...

www.ramforum.com

If it falls out of spec, then yes.

 

[nlambert182]

You're cherry picking your data. Typical RV TW is 10 to 15 percent, so typical remaining payload would be between 950 pounds and 550 pounds.

All kinds of people can make this work. Single guys, retired folk, couples, couples with 2 or 3 young kids etc.

I do consider 8000 pounds a pretty good "max" for a half ton, but there are many many cases of people who can make this work safely and reliably. To suggest otherwise is just being stubborn at this point.

You're missing the entire point and at this point this argument is worthless.

What you are implying is that ALL 1500s can do it. I am advocating that SOME might be able to, but SOME won't. I am saying that it is truck specific and that you can't make that generalization. Since we're talking about cherry picking, look at that. Take the whole of what I and others have been saying and not just what you want to see.

It's not a consideration. It's what the math says. Those are FACTS and not opinions to consider. That is my entire (and only) point.

 

[ramffml]

You're missing the entire point and at this point this argument is worthless.

What you are implying is that ALL 1500s can do it. I am advocating that SOME might be able to, but SOME won't. I am saying that it is truck specific and that you can't make that generalization. Since we're talking about cherry picking, look at that. Take the whole of what I and others have been saying and not just what you want to see.

It's not a consideration. It's what the math says. Those are FACTS and not opinions to consider. That is my entire (and only) point.

I'm not implying that at all. This started with some guy saying "why would anyone tow with a 1500", implying that none of them were worthy of towing. I'm simply arguing that the 1500 is a capable tow rig in its own right and there are more than enough variations in truck and trailer that you can't just simply write it off. Using my truck and trailer as an example, it can easily tow 8000 pounds.

You guys then tried to tell me my truck wasn't capable of doing that.

The FACTS are: many value/volume trims can tow an 8000 pound trailer, safely, reliably, and without "breaking things".

 

[nlambert182]

I'm not implying that at all. This started with some guy saying "why would anyone tow with a 1500", implying that none of them were worthy of towing. I'm simply arguing that the 1500 is a capable tow rig in its own right and there are more than enough variations in truck and trailer that you can't just simply write it off. Using my truck and trailer as an example, it can easily tow 8000 pounds.

You guys then tried to tell me my truck wasn't capable of doing that.

The FACTS are: many value/volume trims can tow an 8000 pound trailer, safely, reliably, and without "breaking things".

I didn't try to tell you that your truck wouldn't do it. I did the math and then told you in which scenario it would. Those are 2 different things.

Anyhow, I'm going to let this thread die. It's pointless.

 

[ramffml]

I didn't try to tell you that your truck wouldn't do it. I did the math and then told you in which scenario it would. Those are 2 different things.

Anyhow, I'm going to let this thread die. It's pointless.

You and a few others are all trying to suggest the 1500 can't tow 8000 pounds. You cherry pick data to try and prove your point, and it's funny because my truck is actually rated to tow more than yours is due to you reaching your GVWR limit before me. You picked math that was suggesting only under very ideal conditions can it do it, when in reality there are far more conditions when it can.

You don't actually have to use the words "you can't do that"; we're all capable of interpreting the math you cherry picked and the conclusions you were implying.

Again remembering the context of what started this, "why would anyone tow with a 1500"; and the answer is "because it absolutely can under many conditions". Yes there are limits, just like there are limits to your truck, and a 3500.

That question is as just as bad as asking "why would anyone tow with a 2500/megacab cummins". The payload is terrible vs a 6.4 or a 3500. Yet you made that decision because it works for you and your setup and probably for many others as well.

 

[truck2569]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should

My brother has a F150 that pullshislittle5th wheel just fine. But he has taken some of the things I have told him and done though. Bigger ply rating tires, deep dish oil pan for the transmission, Xtra oil cooler. Etc. And they make some nice smaller 5th wheels anymore.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

I LOVE towing threads!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Riccochet]

I don't understand the point of a 19-20' 5th wheel. You can tow a larger travel trailer just as well with a half ton and have a heck of a lot more trailer without all the headaches of worrying about payload. Within reason.

 

[crash68]

I don't understand the point of a 19-20' 5th wheel.

Stability and maneuverability. A tag-along applies force from behind the rear axle using the axle as a fulcrum in both up/down along with left/right. A 20' tag along trailer is almost 4' longer overall than a 20' fiver, the trailer hitch tongue is not included in the noted floorplan length. The shorter overall moves the wheels closer to the truck meaning a shorter turning radius. You can 90° turn a fiver in relation to the truck, try that with a tag-along and there's a new bumper with possible body work involved.