2012 Ram 5.7 Hemi Erratic Idle & Mid-Range Miss

[Bradform]

I'm new to the forum and Ram to be honest. I'm trying to help out my cousin, who is handicapped, with his 2012 Ram 1500 with a 5.7 HEMI. The truck is fairly low on miles, with just slightly over 80K. He suffered a TBI (traumatic brain injury) at work about two years ago, so the truck has been sitting for at least that long. To be safe, I changed all the fluids and drained the gas to start fresh. The truck runs, but gets a shutter/skip when it warms up at idle and has a slight miss at mid-range rpms (2K). The shutter and skip go away when the cam position sensor is unplugged. I was at a loss for what might be going on and decided to take it to the local Ram dealership for assessment. The dealership has recommended that we replace the cam phaser, which will run around 2.5 to 3.5K, depending on where we get the parts. From reading up a bit on the 5.7, I see there are other issues with the valve train, including MDS. I don't recall whether the engine had the tick or what other issues it may or may not have had since I just got involved with it. I'm hoping to get y'all's thoughts on what I should do with the vehicle. Is replacing the cam phaser sufficient? I see the MDS delete job is more involved, but is that something I should consider, since I don't know that's an issue at this point? Any thoughts on the topic would be greatly appreciated. PS. As with many folks these days, my cousin doesn't have a bunch of money to spend...... Thank you in advance to everyone who responds!

 

[Bradform]

Didn't know I'd stump folks on this consult.

 

[EdGs]

Any codes?

 

[Ken226]

The dealership has recommended that we replace the cam phaser, which will run around 2.5 to 3.5K, depending on where we get the parts.

Presumably, the dealer will have alot more information than what you told us, since they would have scanned it for codes, and had some idea of the cam/crank correlation's level of, correctness.




Of course, these days, a dealer "tech" seems as likely to just fire expensive parts at is as a shadetree mechanic is, so you never know. Like everything else, as the technology gets more complex, average IQs decline and now we have the competent generations retiring and being replaced by folks with the "GenZ stare".

From reading up a bit on the 5.7, I see there are other issues with the valve train, including MDS.

There can be, but the MDS isn't the culprit.

I don't recall whether the engine had the tick or what other issues it may or may not have had since I just got involved with it.

Recalling that info (whether it had the tick, or other issues), is 100% necessary in order to make a good, informed decision on what to do.

I'm hoping to get y'all's thoughts on what I should do with the vehicle.

Well, if you recalled that it definitely had the "tick", and the tick was indeed a failed cam, i'd recommend you pull the VVT solenoid and check for metal shavings. If shavings are present, replace the engine. If no shavings, replace the cam and lifters.

Is replacing the cam phaser sufficient?

No one here can possibly know that, as you didn't prove nearly enough information.

I see the MDS delete job is more involved, but is that something I should consider, since I don't know that's an issue at this point?

MDS isn't really an issue. You can delete the MDS if you like and get better throttle response and a better running/sounding engine. If you were able to recall if it had the "tick", and the tick was indeed a failed lifter rather than a broken exhaust manifold bolt, AND there was no metal in the MDS solenoid, then the MDS delete would be a good cal. Mainly because, you'll already be replacing those parts anyway, so no additional labor and the non-MDS parts are more reliable and cheaper.

You need a competent shop that you can trust, and who can fill in all of those blanks before you will be able to make a decision.

Any thoughts on the topic would be greatly appreciated. PS. As with many folks these days, my cousin doesn't have a bunch of money to spend...... Thank you in advance to everyone who responds!

Your welcome.

 

[Hagar1]

Before you start throwing a bunch of money at it. Verify that it actually is the cam phaser. Any half decent diagnostic tool should be able to show cam phaser action.

 

[EdGs]

Any idea if the plugs have been changed?

 

[Hagar1]

Any idea if the plugs have been changed?

Just as a note ......... I changed my plugs a few thousand miles ago, I didn't use the iridium, just the copper ones and I have a similar feeling that it is slightly misfiring but nothing in codes, yet. Seems that these engines are sensitive to a lot of things.

 

[Wild one]

Just as a note ......... I changed my plugs a few thousand miles ago, I didn't use the iridium, just the copper ones and I have a similar feeling that it is slightly misfiring but nothing in codes, yet. Seems that these engines are sensitive to a lot of things.

When you replaced the plugs did you check the springs in the coil boots over for corrosion. You might just need to clean up the springs and contact points .

Coil cleaning pics

Yea i know my picture taking abilities suck,lol Hopefully you guys can tell how i go about cleaning up the coils from the pic's. The first pic,is just a pic of everything disassembled.If your truck has the resistors under the spring in the coil towers,you'll want to remove them and clean them...

www.ramforum.com

 

[Hagar1]

When you replaced the plugs did you check the springs in the coil boots over for corrosion. You might just need to clean up the springs and contact points .

Coil cleaning pics

Yea i know my picture taking abilities suck,lol Hopefully you guys can tell how i go about cleaning up the coils from the pic's. The first pic,is just a pic of everything disassembled.If your truck has the resistors under the spring in the coil towers,you'll want to remove them and clean them...

www.ramforum.com

No, I didn't but I should dive back into it now that it is running good. Valve train noise isn't all that bad and I have 20. something vacuum at idle and it is steady.

 

[EdGs]

Just as a note ......... I changed my plugs a few thousand miles ago, I didn't use the iridium, just the copper ones and I have a similar feeling that it is slightly misfiring but nothing in codes, yet. Seems that these engines are sensitive to a lot of things.

Yeah, I missed that when I skimmed over the posts.....lol.

 

[Bradform]

Gentlemen. Quick update on the truck at the Ram dealership. I bit the bullet and told them to replace the phaser with the aftermarket parts (no dealer warranty). They went in to make the repair and called me back, stating that the pin on the cam that sticks out has sheared off, and they recommended scrapping the truck as it couldn't be put back together and timed to run. The only repair option was to replace the valve train components, and he felt the truck wasn't worth the cost. He's right on the value of the truck, as my cousin wrecked it a few years back. I haven't gone up there to see the truck or get it yet. Does the cam pin shearing sound fishy to you guys at all? Don't know why they would lie about something like that. At least I know where it's at now. Kind sucks, as the truck only has 80K miles on it and has new rubber all the way around. Thanks again to everyone for the input and guidance.

 

[EdGs]

I would say it would depend whether you have any valves compromised. Not sure how easy it would be to remove the sheared pin, easier to install a new cam.

After having dealerships try to screw me over, I am very disrustful of them.

But then, heads should be pulled and lifters, valves, and rockers should be checked.

I have heard of people using magnetic tools to keep the lifters pulled back in the trays, then installing a new cam.

If its in decent shape, and you have the time and resources........?

 

[Wild one]

Gentlemen. Quick update on the truck at the Ram dealership. I bit the bullet and told them to replace the phaser with the aftermarket parts (no dealer warranty). They went in to make the repair and called me back, stating that the pin on the cam that sticks out has sheared off, and they recommended scrapping the truck as it couldn't be put back together and timed to run. The only repair option was to replace the valve train components, and he felt the truck wasn't worth the cost. He's right on the value of the truck, as my cousin wrecked it a few years back. I haven't gone up there to see the truck or get it yet. Does the cam pin shearing sound fishy to you guys at all? Don't know why they would lie about something like that. At least I know where it's at now. Kind sucks, as the truck only has 80K miles on it and has new rubber all the way around. Thanks again to everyone for the input and guidance.

It's usually more common when guys replace the cam and don't torque the cam bolt to 90 lb-ft. Almost sounds like the cam might have seized in the bearings,which also has been known to happen on higher milege trucks that haven't been well maintained.

 

[Bradform]

The valve train should be good, as it ran when I drove the truck up there. That is, unless they damaged something at the dealership. If I choose to dive into it now on my own, would you advise doing the full cam and variable lifter delete?

 

[Xsen]

I'd go the non-MDS route. As the cam is probably gone already, why not just replace it with a non-MDS version. Same with the lifters. You're going to be taking those heads off, so make sure you have head and other top-end gaskets on hand. Personally, I'd also do valve seals, just because they would be accessible. I don't think that at this mileage something would be wrong with the block, unless it was overheated.

 

[Bradform]

Xsen. Thanks for the reply. That was the direction I was leaning in at this point to do the cam/MDS delete. No overheating or major issues that I know of on the truck, but I will double-check with my cousin. Any suggestions on sourcing the kit/parts to do the job?

 

[Wild one]

Xsen. Thanks for the reply. That was the direction I was leaning in at this point to do the cam/MDS delete. No overheating or major issues that I know of on the truck, but I will double-check with my cousin. Any suggestions on sourcing the kit/parts to do the job?

If the cam pin sheared ,good chance you'll need a few new valves and pushrods,as the Hemi's an interferance engine,and the pistons will hit the valves. Don't buy anything cheap,as you'll be doing the job all over again in short order. Whatever parts you settle on,make sure you use new OEM lifters,none of the aftermarket lifters are worth $h!t,except the Johnsons with axle oiling,and they're overkill for a basically stock 5.7. You'll need to have it tuned for a non-mds cam. Do not buy anything from Engine Tech.
When you find the parts you're thinking of using,post a link to them on this thread,before you buy them,and we can tell you whether it's a good buy or not