2014 PCM Fuel adaptives question

[MarshalLaw]

Been having some wierd issues with my truck shuddering at low speeds, so I brought it to a couple dealerships that couldn't figure it out. One of them told me my "PCM fuel adaptives are high with 12% left bank and 8% right bank". My question is firat off, what does that mean, and secondly, how do I fix it or is it due to some unknown underlying issue? Any help would be appreciated, thanks

20200929_191922

• MarshalLaw
• Sep 29, 2020

 

[savage_46]

Where are your headers leaking at? That can throw off o2 sensors for too much air getting to the sensor. Pcm then adds fuel to offset that

 

[Tach_tech]

Without monitoring fuel adaptives it’s really hard to say. There’s not just one adaptive. There’s an adaptive cell for idle in park,neutral,drive. As well as all the various cells while driving.

Without knowing when the adaptives were checked it’s hard to tell. Adaptives are also higher than normal during evap purge as well.

I’m guessing the numbers they provided were in park at idle. Basically means that the left bank needs 12% more fuel and right needs 8% more fuel in order to achieve the desired air/fuel ratio.since they’re positive numbers that means it’s adding fuel which means it’s running slightly lean.


Those numbers are slightly high but without having more data it doesn’t really mean much. Not enough to say that’s causing any issues.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

Been having some wierd issues with my truck shuddering at low speeds, so I brought it to a couple dealerships that couldn't figure it out. One of them told me my "PCM fuel adaptives are high with 12% left bank and 8% right bank". My question is firat off, what does that mean, and secondly, how do I fix it or is it due to some unknown underlying issue? Any help would be appreciated, thanks

20200929_191922

• MarshalLaw
• Sep 29, 2020

Let me guess. P219 a or b?

 

[ram1500rsm]

The fuel adaptives in this case don't mean much. As Tach_tech indicated fuel trims operate in various conditions so +12 +8% means the trims are informing the PCM the correction needed to reach stoich and int this case + means fuel needs to be added, but added where.. Idle?, Part throttle?, under what load ?, you won't get a DTC until those trims reach +-25% anyways so little + fuel trims are not going to hurt anything per se to give you a shudder.

The only thing concerning to me in that report is the headers leaking and the 1-2 slip diring the upshift when cold. Fix the header leak. get down there with a fuel hose and use as a stethoscope while the truck is running (be careful) and see if the tech was feeding you BS or not. If there is a leak fix it. Then see how everything falls from there.

What are the truck mods ? Who tuned it ? You should consider at least having an app that can monitor the basics in your engine. If you have Alphaobd then you have an ODB2 device and an app that could monitor your fuel trim both LTFT and STFT's ? I haven't checked cause i use HPTuners, but i have an app in my Android that came with the ODB2 port reader thingy i use to connect Alphaob, It's called ODBlink in my case and i think that perhaps it could be used to read fuel trims? I know i can check DTC's with it, read engine RPM, some temps here and there, etc.

Maybe you'll need to pay to unleash more PID's ? but there are apps out there you could use to scan the basics. look at your LTFT's for example while driving, there should be between -5+5% while on part throttle driving normally. could be a little more or less , again as long as you don't have crazy high fuel trims close to +-25% you should be fine, if they're a little high perhaps you need some tuning to improve on what you have.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

The fuel adaptives in this case don't mean much. As Tach_tech indicated fuel trims operate in various conditions so +12 +8% means the trims are informing the PCM the correction needed to reach stoich and int this case + means fuel needs to be added, but added where.. Idle?, Part throttle?, under what load ?, you won't get a DTC until those trims reach +-25% anyways so little + fuel trims are not going to hurt anything per se to give you a shudder.

The only thing concerning to me in that report is the headers leaking and the 1-2 slip diring the upshift when cold. Fix the header leak. get down there with a fuel hose and use as a stethoscope while the truck is running (be careful) and see if the tech was feeding you BS or not. If there is a leak fix it. Then see how everything falls from there.

What are the truck mods ? Who tuned it ? You should consider at least having an app that can monitor the basics in your engine. If you have Alphaobd then you have an ODB2 device and an app that could monitor your fuel trim both LTFT and STFT's ? I haven't checked cause i use HPTuners, but i have an app in my Android that came with the ODB2 port reader thingy i use to connect Alphaob, It's called ODBlink in my case and i think that perhaps it could be used to read fuel trims? I know i can check DTC's with it, read engine RPM, some temps here and there, etc.

Maybe you'll need to pay to unleash more PID's ? but there are apps out there you could use to scan the basics. look at your LTFT's for example while driving, there should be between -5+5% while on part throttle driving normally. could be a little more or less , again as long as you don't have crazy high fuel trims close to +-25% you should be fine, if they're a little high perhaps you need some tuning to improve on what you have.

What he is experiencing is a lean condition between the 2 banks of cylinders due to the stated exhaust leaks at the headers etc. The OBD code that follows is P219a for driver side or P219b. Sounds like he asked what ask the meant and they attempted to explain. Anyway good luck with it.

That code still plagues my truck from time to time. My exhaust is sealed but I'm thinking vbands will be better than slip fit

 

[ram1500rsm]

What he is experiencing is a lean condition between the 2 banks of cylinders due to the stated exhaust leaks at the headers etc. The OBD code that follows is P219a for driver side or P219b. Sounds like he asked what ask the meant and they attempted to explain. Anyway good luck with it.

That code still plagues my truck from time to time. My exhaust is sealed but I'm thinking vbands will be better than slip fit

Do you have headers ?

I found some more info regarding those DTC's

"DTC P219AFuel Trim Cylinder Balance Bank 1

DTC P219BFuel Trim Cylinder Balance Bank 2

Circuit/System Description
The Fuel Trim Cylinder Balance diagnostic detects a rich or lean cylinder to cylinder air/fuel ratio imbalance in each bank. The diagnostic monitors the pre-catalyst heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) signal's frequency and amplitude characteristics by calculating an accumulated voltage over a predetermined sample period. An imbalance is indicated when multiple samples of the accumulated voltage are consistently higher than the desired value.

Conditions for Running the DTC
•DTCs P0030, P0050, P0053, P0059, P0068, P0101, P0102, P0103, P0106, P0107, P0108, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0120, P0122, P0123, P0128, P0131–P0135, P0151– P0155, P015A-P015D, P0178, P0179, P0201–P0208, P0220, P0222, P0223, P0300, P0301–P0308, P0442, P0443, P0446, P0449, P0452, P0453, P0455, P0496, P1133, P1153, P1516, P2135, P2176, P2269 are not set.
•A scan tool device control is not active.
•The intrusive diagnostics are not active.
•The engine overspeed protection is not active.
•The power take-off is not active.
•The traction control is not active.
•The engine is in closed loop status.
•The system voltage is between 10–32 V for greater than 4 s.
•The engine run time is greater than 100 s.
•The engine coolant temperature (ECT) is warmer than −20?C (−4?F).
•The engine speed is between 425–2,500 RPM.
•The mass air flow is between 15–65 g/s.
•The fuel ethanol content is less than 87 percent.
•The DTCs run continuously when the above conditions have been met.
Conditions for Setting the DTC
Multiple samples of the pre-catalyst HO2S accumulated voltage are consistently greater than the desired value.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
DTCs P219A and P219B are Type B DTCs.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
DTCs P219A and P219B are Type B DTCs.

Diagnostic Aids
•The fuel trim cylinder balance diagnostic is very sensitive to heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) design. A non-OE sensor or an incorrect part number may cause a DTC to set.
•Monitoring the misfire current counters, or misfire graph, may help to isolate the cylinder that is causing the condition.
•Certain aftermarket air filters may cause a DTC to set.
•Certain aftermarket air induction systems or modifications to the air induction system may cause a DTC to set.
•Certain aftermarket exhaust system components may cause a DTC to set.


Circuit/System Verification
 1. Ignition ON.
 2. Verify no other DTCs are set.
⇒ If any other DTCs are set
Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC)
⇓ If no other DTCs are set
 3. Verify DTC P219A or P219B is not set.
⇒ If any of the DTCs are set
Refer to Circuit/System Testing.

⇓ If none of the DTCs are set
 4. Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed in the Freeze Frame/Failure Records data.
 5. Verify the DTC does not set.
⇒ If the DTC sets
Refer to Circuit/System Testing.

⇓ If the DTC does not set
 6. All OK.
Circuit/System Testing
 1. Engine idling, transmission in Park or Neutral.
 2. Verify the manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor parameter is between 19–42 kPa (2.7–6 PSI).
⇒ If not within the specified range.
Refer to DTC P0106.

⇓ If within the specified range, inspect for the conditions listed below:
◦Modified, damaged, leaking, or restricted air induction system components.
◦Improper operation of the crankcase ventilation system. Refer to Crankcase Ventilation System Inspection/Diagnosis.
◦Split, kinked, or improperly connected vacuum hoses.
◦Restricted, damaged, leaking, or modified exhaust system from the catalytic converter forward. Refer to Symptoms - Engine Exhaust.
◦Vacuum leaks at the intake manifold, the throttle body, or the injector O-rings.
◦Improper operation of the fuel injectors. Refer to Fuel Injector Diagnosis.
◦Fuel contamination. Alcohol/Contaminants-in-Fuel.
◦Excessive fuel in the crankcase due to leaking injectors.
◦Improper operation of the ignition system. Refer to Electronic Ignition System Diagnosis.
⇒ If a condition is found
Repair as necessary.

If no condition is found
 3. Test the engine for any mechanical conditions such as sticking valves, lifters, etc., which could alter the flow into the combustion chamber."

 

[RedSRT4Me]

Do you have headers ?

I found some more info regarding those DTC's

"DTC P219AFuel Trim Cylinder Balance Bank 1

DTC P219BFuel Trim Cylinder Balance Bank 2

Circuit/System Description
The Fuel Trim Cylinder Balance diagnostic detects a rich or lean cylinder to cylinder air/fuel ratio imbalance in each bank. The diagnostic monitors the pre-catalyst heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) signal's frequency and amplitude characteristics by calculating an accumulated voltage over a predetermined sample period. An imbalance is indicated when multiple samples of the accumulated voltage are consistently higher than the desired value.

Conditions for Running the DTC
•DTCs P0030, P0050, P0053, P0059, P0068, P0101, P0102, P0103, P0106, P0107, P0108, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0120, P0122, P0123, P0128, P0131–P0135, P0151– P0155, P015A-P015D, P0178, P0179, P0201–P0208, P0220, P0222, P0223, P0300, P0301–P0308, P0442, P0443, P0446, P0449, P0452, P0453, P0455, P0496, P1133, P1153, P1516, P2135, P2176, P2269 are not set.
•A scan tool device control is not active.
•The intrusive diagnostics are not active.
•The engine overspeed protection is not active.
•The power take-off is not active.
•The traction control is not active.
•The engine is in closed loop status.
•The system voltage is between 10–32 V for greater than 4 s.
•The engine run time is greater than 100 s.
•The engine coolant temperature (ECT) is warmer than −20?C (−4?F).
•The engine speed is between 425–2,500 RPM.
•The mass air flow is between 15–65 g/s.
•The fuel ethanol content is less than 87 percent.
•The DTCs run continuously when the above conditions have been met.
Conditions for Setting the DTC
Multiple samples of the pre-catalyst HO2S accumulated voltage are consistently greater than the desired value.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
DTCs P219A and P219B are Type B DTCs.

Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
DTCs P219A and P219B are Type B DTCs.

Diagnostic Aids
•The fuel trim cylinder balance diagnostic is very sensitive to heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) design. A non-OE sensor or an incorrect part number may cause a DTC to set.
•Monitoring the misfire current counters, or misfire graph, may help to isolate the cylinder that is causing the condition.
•Certain aftermarket air filters may cause a DTC to set.
•Certain aftermarket air induction systems or modifications to the air induction system may cause a DTC to set.
•Certain aftermarket exhaust system components may cause a DTC to set.


Circuit/System Verification
 1. Ignition ON.
 2. Verify no other DTCs are set.
⇒ If any other DTCs are set
Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC)
⇓ If no other DTCs are set
 3. Verify DTC P219A or P219B is not set.
⇒ If any of the DTCs are set
Refer to Circuit/System Testing.

⇓ If none of the DTCs are set
 4. Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed in the Freeze Frame/Failure Records data.
 5. Verify the DTC does not set.
⇒ If the DTC sets
Refer to Circuit/System Testing.

⇓ If the DTC does not set
 6. All OK.
Circuit/System Testing
 1. Engine idling, transmission in Park or Neutral.
 2. Verify the manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor parameter is between 19–42 kPa (2.7–6 PSI).
⇒ If not within the specified range.
Refer to DTC P0106.

⇓ If within the specified range, inspect for the conditions listed below:
◦Modified, damaged, leaking, or restricted air induction system components.
◦Improper operation of the crankcase ventilation system. Refer to Crankcase Ventilation System Inspection/Diagnosis.
◦Split, kinked, or improperly connected vacuum hoses.
◦Restricted, damaged, leaking, or modified exhaust system from the catalytic converter forward. Refer to Symptoms - Engine Exhaust.
◦Vacuum leaks at the intake manifold, the throttle body, or the injector O-rings.
◦Improper operation of the fuel injectors. Refer to Fuel Injector Diagnosis.
◦Fuel contamination. Alcohol/Contaminants-in-Fuel.
◦Excessive fuel in the crankcase due to leaking injectors.
◦Improper operation of the ignition system. Refer to Electronic Ignition System Diagnosis.
⇒ If a condition is found
Repair as necessary.

If no condition is found
 3. Test the engine for any mechanical conditions such as sticking valves, lifters, etc., which could alter the flow into the combustion chamber."

I have headers yes.

Good info! Hopefully it helps the OP

 

[ram1500rsm]

I have headers yes.

Good info! Hopefully it helps the OP

Long tubes used to screw up with my rear o2 sensors in anything GM i've had and also my Coyote application in my Mustang GT 5.0. Don't know if it'll work the same with Mopar but in concept it should work very similar. i used to disable the rear 02 sensors, disable the post 02 tests so it wouldn't throw codes and disable other needed DTC codes that will be set when you don't have cats or have Hi flow ones with LT's. You'll simply use front 02 sensors to provide fuel trim feedback for your close loop. Of course assuming you have no leaks anywhere upstream or anything else that will be setting codes like p0171 or p0174 which is what i was referring to with the +-25% fuel trims. I've never had to deal with a p219a or b but i see those codes are present in my RAM DTC list and the mils can be enabled/disabled on demand .

If the headers are messing up with the rear 02's maybe this could cause those codes, but you have to check for mechanical conditions that could be tripping the tests and be super sure before trying to disable the buggers from your tune for example. Again just an example.

Hope it helps.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

Long tubes used to screw up with my rear o2 sensors in anything GM i've had and also my Coyote application in my Mustang GT 5.0. Don't know if it'll work the same with Mopar but in concept it should work very similar. i used to disable the rear 02 sensors, disable the post 02 tests so it wouldn't throw codes and disable other needed DTC codes that will be set when you don't have cats or have Hi flow ones with LT's. You'll simply use front 02 sensors to provide fuel trim feedback for your close loop. Of course assuming you have no leaks anywhere upstream or anything else that will be setting codes like p0171 or p0174 which is what i was referring to with the +-25% fuel trims. I've never had to deal with a p219a or b but i see those codes are present in my RAM DTC list and the mils can be enabled/disabled on demand .

If the headers are messing up with the rear 02's maybe this could cause those codes, but you have to check for mechanical conditions that could be tripping the tests and be super sure before trying to disable the buggers from your tune for example. Again just an example.

Hope it helps.

Agreed 100% and again thank you for the info.
Jay turned these off for me in my tune. I wasn't aware I had the issue till I had to pass emission. I passed no problem but the truck will throw the 219b at me. Header gaskets have been replaced and arp bolts used this time.

I have a feeling my problem lies with the catch can to PCV valve.

I am running high flo cats. I can either try new 02 sensors. Or non foulers. It's just such a stupid code that I haven't put that much effort into fixing it.

I use an elm that I have see the fuel trims in real time. I can see the difference in percentage but just can't 100% explain it yet.

Took a screen shot of the app I use to see the values.