2016 6.4 died while idling…PLEASE HELP!

[SixFo-on-I64]

So yesterday after about two hours driving…I parked and had a brief conversation with a nephew when my 2016 Ram 2500 6.4 just died at idle! I pulled codes and got all injector codes 1-8 open circuit…I cleared codes, removed battery posts for 5 min. Reconnected post tried starting, crank no start! Tried couple more times before smelling fuel! Called for tow truck! Truck arrived this morning. After 1 attempt at starting and cycling key to place in nuetral, when he began to load it onto flatbed…fuel began to pour from exhaust!(muffler wrap hole and tailpipe) Can anyone tell me what would cause injectors to open completely and flood cylinders enough to begin to fill exhaust!

 

[Dean2]

No idea what the cause is. I can't say I have ever heard that one before. I would disconnect the battery, very carefully so as not to generate any sparks. Negative cable first, then positive. That way the fuel pump can't keep providing fuel. Look forward to hearing what the repair shop finds.

 

[SixFo-on-I64]

No idea what the cause is. I can't say I have ever heard that one before. I would disconnect the battery, very carefully so as not to generate any sparks. That way the fuel pump can't keep providing fuel. Look forward to hearing what the repair shop finds.

I’ll definitely update when I have some news on it!

 

[Burla]

That is scary man, weird all 8 are open. Makes me think it is something other then injectors, fuel pump, bad ground, bad fuse or something. Sorry man I have no clue on this one, I just feel your pain.

 

[indept]

You should have the shop change your oil too since it may be contaminated with gas BEFORE they start it. It could wipe out your engine if allowed to run with gas in the oil.

 

[SixFo-on-I64]

Thanks for the input and support guys! Won’t know anything until middle of the week…Hopefully something simple! I’m stumped!

 

[SixFo-on-I64]

And definitely on the oil change prior to any attempt at starting now! But only after injectors are within spec! I’d hate to change oil in it just to contaminate the new oil all over again!

 

[mtofell]

This almost seems like one of those situations that is so bad that it will be easy(ish) to find the problem. Open circuit on ALL cylinders rules out a lot of things.

 

[indept]

And definitely on the oil change prior to any attempt at starting now! But only after injectors are within spec! I’d hate to change oil in it just to contaminate the new oil all over again!

Check & see if the oil is overfilled. If it took on gas then it should be overfilled. Not worth ruining your engine to save a few bucks worth of oil.

 

[Jeepwalker]

I guess if it were my truck I'd start by for sure doing a legitimate battery load test and grounds/terminals were 'good'. If it's not good, stop there and get a good battery in it. Make sure no fuel is present when you do this. Then pulling the fuel relay and testing it in case the contacts seized to the 'on' position. Then putting on a test light or noid's to see which injector/s were in the 'on' position. I wouldn't necessarily trust the scanner at this point. Test directly. Make sure the leak is in fact open injector/s, not a micro-thin line of fuel squirting from a cracked hose/line, etc and running down the exhaust. Sometimes a pinhole shoot of fuel can be almost invisible and shoot quite a ways. Do a fuel pressure check, just to cover the basics ..although it doesn't sound like a fuel issue.

Then I'd probably look at the TIPM wiring & connectors in case there were some shorts, badly corroded terminals or rodent-chewed wiring. There have been a couple owners in the northeast who've experienced very badly corroded terminals at the TIPM (computer), and the wiring isn't very well wrapped with tape these days. It's just inviting mice to gnaw on exposed wires. I've *had* rodents chew several wires in the past (not on the Ram) that led to wonky behavior. After that, I'd remove the TIPM computer and look the circuit board over very carefully for corrosion, damage, discoloration, etc. You are in the corrosion zone, so you can't rule that out. If I didn't find anything, I'd probably investigate the fuel pressure regulator as that's a known issue on these trucks (back below the brake booster). You'd think the truck should still 'try' to start, if not run badly. That leads me to think TIPM or wiring. But ya don't want to overlook the basics either.

That's how I'd personally go about it if it were my truck, at least get started. But it sounds like you have a shop working on it ...no?

Definitely let us know what you find. Good luck.

 

[SixFo-on-I64]

On vacation this week…was hard to leave the Ram behind without hearing/knowing what the issue is! But, it’s only a truck! Hope you would all agree, Quality family time is more important! Besides I’m at the mercy of the diag gods at this point and I could definitely use this time to unplug and deal with it on my return! Thanks for the huge amount of support the group and more importantly its active members have to offer! It doesn’t go unnoticed! Thanks again guys! Will update post when more is known!

 

[csuder99]

For background, the injectors get (simplified) 12V when the auto shutdown relay is on and the PCM grounds the individual other side wires at the appropriate time. The PCM monitors if there is 12V present when it doesn't ground the injector circuit, this is how it checks circuit integrity. The fact that the injectors appear to be open and flood the engine would indicate that there is a short to ground somewhere between the injectors and the PCM. The short also means the PCM doesn't detect 12V when it doesn't ground the circuit which is why the fault codes are injector circuit codes.

What makes this perplexing is that it affects all 8 injectors. I can see one or two because of a wiring issue but all 8 is weird. There actually might be an issue with the PCM itself.

 

[SixFo-on-I64]

Well went to repair shop today to check status…still no clue as to what the issue is apparently without pulling the parts cannon! Was told to start with oil change, new plugs, and new throttle body! Tech’s and owner say they’ve never seen or heard of such a situation before now! Well considering how expensive the “rammunition” for a parts cannon can be, any experience with such a situation would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Jane S]

Well went to repair shop today to check status…still no clue as to what the issue is apparently without pulling the parts cannon! Was told to start with oil change, new plugs, and new throttle body! Tech’s and owner say they’ve never seen or heard of such a situation before now! Well considering how expensive the “rammunition” for a parts cannon can be, any experience with such a situation would be greatly appreciated!

What's a 'parts cannon'?

 

[BuschLatte420]

What's a 'parts cannon'?

When you don’t know the issue so you spend a lot of money buying parts in hopes of fixing the issue one by one

 

[Dean2]

Well went to repair shop today to check status…still no clue as to what the issue is apparently without pulling the parts cannon! Was told to start with oil change, new plugs, and new throttle body! Tech’s and owner say they’ve never seen or heard of such a situation before now! Well considering how expensive the “rammunition” for a parts cannon can be, any experience with such a situation would be greatly appreciated!

Take it to a different shop. None of the parts they are recommending you replace are the cause. There is a REALLY LIMITED number of things that can cause multiple injectors to be open and flooding the vehicle. Plugs were working fine just before you had the issue. The throttle body is NOT capable of causing the problem you are having. It really shouldn'tbe that hard to isolate what is holding multiple injectors open at the same time.

Jeep and cs both are providing better trace and locate suggestions than your current repair shop.

 

[SixFo-on-I64]

What's a 'parts cannon'?

Transpotation defense! Rammunition is an assortment of projectiles for said cannon!

 

[62Blazer]

Take it to a different shop. None of the parts they are recommending you replace are the cause. There is a REALLY LIMITED number of things that can cause multiple injectors to be open and flooding the vehicle. Plugs were working fine just before you had the issue. The throttle body is NOT capable of causing the problem you are having. It really shouldn'tbe that hard to isolate what is holding multiple injectors open at the same time.

Jeep and cs both are providing better trace and locate suggestions than your current repair shop.

I agree. This shop obviously does not know how to do any basic circuit testing or diagnostic work. To address another post, the "parts cannon" is when you start just randomly replacing parts without actually verifying if they are bad enough and hoping you get lucky and fix the problem.
I am by no means an expert on this and would have to do some research on the wiring diagrams and factory service manual, but something this blatant shouldn't be that hard to at least narrow down where the issue is coming from. The factory service manuals typically have diagnostic trees to follow for every code possible that will at least help you narrow it down. Again, not 100% but would think you could pull the fuel pump relay to prevent it from pumping gas and then try cranking it to see what type of commands (electrical pulses) were being sent to the injectors. Look at the signal right out of the ECM and then what it is at the injectors. This would at least tell you if the ECM was whacked or not and if possibly shorted out wiring. If all injectors had a code I would review the wiring diagram and see what they all have in common regarding wiring.

 

[rzr6-4]

I agree with 62Blazer & Dean2, both as to what the issues seem to be and that the shop doesn't seem to know what they are doing.

 

[SixFo-on-I64]

Well guys! Ram back home and still down! Three months and $2500 later, trying this and that! Got her home and unplugged battery for about a hour at which point it started, ran for 30 sec., stumbled and fell on its face to only restart but rough idle and die! After 3-4 attempts to get it to stay running. White smoke and strong fuel smell from exhaust and displays 8 DTC’s. P0201-p0208 all injector circuits open! What would cause all 8 injectors circuits to fail/open at once? Guy at the shops last words were “Try getting a PCM! Only problem is they are vin specific and vin locked according to my notes!” While handing over his bill! I was quoted $2600 by another shop for new pcm plus programming! Me: “WTF? That’s what II just wiped my ass with! And suppose that doesn’t solve the issue?“ His response, “At least you’ll have a new pcm to go with all the other parts and be able to rule that out for sure!” Little to say I got the hell outta there at lightning pace! I found a used PCM at a used parts dealer for $250 but they have the same/similar vin/vehicle compatibility notes! And they won’t guarantee part or refund part once it is installed. Which way do I go George? Where’s the Mopar head who’s experienced this before?