2024 ram 2500 Uncontrollable Trailer Sway

[2003F350]

That could be, I find it almost impossible to find actual ratings for tongue or gooseneck ratings on any of the RAM web sights.
The only things listed are axle GVW's, truck GVW's and supposed max trailer GVW ratings.
Such as this for my 2019 1500,
5.7L V8 HEMI w/ MDS 8HP75 8 Speed 3.92 truck gvwr 7,100 payload 1,780, base weight 5,318, front weight 3,165, rear weight 2,153, gross axle rating front 3,900, gross rear axle rating 4,100, Combined GCVW 17,000, trailer weight rating 11,240.
No where's do I see any tongue weight rating on the hitch or truck or online, must be they are afraid to publish that.

That's because fifth wheel or gooseneck ratings don't exist. It is ALL payload/GAWR. Even then, you need to scale the truck to find out what those numbers REALLY are.

The hitch rating is ON the hitch, or should be. There should either be a sticker stating what the hitch is rated for, OR it will be stamped into the tubing. Is it possible that the sticker is gone or the stamp has rusted off? Oh absolutely. But when the truck was new it was there.

But that hitch rating is for the physical component, you also have to look at the numbers the individual truck is rated for.

And 'trailer weight ratings' are BS and have been for a long time. Why would you advertise a trailer weigh rating that most of those trucks can never reach? Because it's a number you can 'brag' about even if it's not physically achievable in most cases.

For instance, my truck has a 'max trailer weight rating' of 19,990 lbs according to the 'chart'. There isn't a trailer in the world I could ACTUALLY hook up to that would weight that much without exceeding payload and/or GAWRs. It would take some creative loading to make sure I didn't overload the truck ratings to hitch up to a trailer weighing that much. Now, could the truck physically move that much weight? Oh I have no doubt. Could it move more? Oh quite probably, though it wouldn't meet the 'testing requirements' where they came up with the numbers.

 

[nlambert182]

That could be, I find it almost impossible to find actual ratings for tongue or gooseneck ratings on any of the RAM web sights.
The only things listed are axle GVW's, truck GVW's and supposed max trailer GVW ratings.
Such as this for my 2019 1500,
5.7L V8 HEMI w/ MDS 8HP75 8 Speed 3.92 truck gvwr 7,100 payload 1,780, base weight 5,318, front weight 3,165, rear weight 2,153, gross axle rating front 3,900, gross rear axle rating 4,100, Combined GCVW 17,000, trailer weight rating 11,240.
No where's do I see any tongue weight rating on the hitch or truck or online, must be they are afraid to publish that.

That is all you need.

Tongue weight should be no less than 10% on a flatbed or cargo trailer (adjustable load) and no less than 15% on a travel trailer (static load). Gooseneck flatbeds pin weight should be no less than 15% (adjustable load). A fifth wheel pin weight will be between 18-22% (static load).

You'll almost NEVER get to the full trailer weight rating before exceeding either truck payload or rear axle weight rating. Those are the 2 numbers you need to watch. It's very simple and basic math to figure out what the specific numbers are for your truck.

 

[BaileyBoyz]

For the tenth time, the trailer has friggin surge brakes. At least read the thread before posting.

"I towed a 16' loaded car trailer (10,000#) w/hydraulic brakes." Shut up *******.

 

[Dean2]

"I towed a 16' loaded car trailer (10,000#) w/hydraulic brakes."

RTTS said:


Thank you for all your replies. Let me clarify some things.
It had hydraulic brakes so TBC doesn't matter, nor should it.....

From the Ops own mouth, post #17 for reference. It has Hydraulic brakes and the TBC (Trailer Brake Controller) doesn't matter. For the TBC to have no effect they MUST BE SURGE brakes.

 

[Jas34]

Wow! This thread has really taken off. Is the OP still here? if so, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

Yes, it could be a problem with your truck, though not the design as other's mentioned, since there are a ton of these trucks out there towing just fine. It could also be an issue with your trailer and trailer suspension.

The most likely cause, as has already been beat here to death is the loading of the trailer. Add to that, no weight distribution hitch to move weight to the front of the truck so you can control things better with the steering. Add to that, surge brakes, where you can do nothing but speed up if you have sway.

So if this happened to me, here's how I'd handle it. First weigh my truck and trailer at a Cat scale. Then weigh just the truck. Truck and trailer weight minus the truck gives you trailer weight. Truck weight with the trailer attached minus truck weight alone gives you the tongue weight. Is the tongue weight at least 10% of the trailer weight (assuming we're talking about a flat bed trailer). If not, move your load forward until it is. Is the rear of the truck overloaded? Maybe you need a weight distribution hitch to fix that. Even if you don't "need" one you'll find towing is much more under control with one. If this all checks out try adding more tongue weight then check the trailer for problems, then the truck.

A nice video that U-Haul put online that shows what causes trailer sway. Pretty convincing.

Safe Trailering Demonstrator

How you distribute tow weight is paramount to safely arriving at your destination. When loading a trailer, make sure that 60% of your weight is loaded to the...

www.youtube.com

 

[MrFigs]

Hydraulic Brakes... per most people most likely yes Surge brakes, the OP hasn't clarified there's a rare shot it's electric over hydraulic... Rare.

Sway, some people seem to think it's only one way either too much tongue weight or not enough. I've done both. the sway itself feels different between the 2 conditions. I've never crashed due to sway, I just adjust my driving, hell yesterday i loaded a Tahoe on my trailer, the truck was on uneven ground when I loaded it so I pulled it to far forward. I didn't get sway, but just by how the truck was handling I knew I was tongue heavy. I have a '12 1500 with beefed up rear coil springs (I can put 2100lbs in my bed and sit level).

I haul a 26' TT full of water without WDH (ok if I'm going down the highway for many many miles I put the bars on for the sway control, but it's a shared WDH so it's set up for the other guy's truck). I will agree with the TT Techs having no clue how to set up a WDH, I go to the local RV store regularly for free wood/tp/cemicals and i see the techs out setting them up and dry/unloaded they're setup wrong, never mind full of water, just makes me shake my head.

Going back to the OP's issue i too am leaning towards user error, I set my tongue weight front/rear wheel gaps based on 12 years experience towing with this truck and knowing what I can get away with and if I were in a new truck with auto leveling air suspension, it would probably mess me up and I'd probably load tongue heavy til i got used to it, or found another way to figure out tongue weight. or mechanical failure, but OP makes no mention of that.

I've hauled my 18' flat deck(2400lbs) with 7000lbs on it with all 10 leaf bushings being shot and no "issues" other than being a little loud...yes i've fixed that. More than once I've had close to 16,000lbs behind my truck on a bumper pull, and 10K quite a few times with a dump trailer.. and once 19,000lbs by accident in a dump trailer (gravel pit front end loader dude gave me wayyyyy to much when I only wanted 2 yards of River Rock. point being leafs vs not-leafs really don't make that much difference.
/rambling

 

[GTyankee]

from Etrailer customer:


Gerry R.
6/7/2020
In a panic stop with any trailer, if the braking system can lock up all the wheels on the trailer you've then completely lost directional control of your trailer and it will come out from behind your tow vehicle into the adjoining lanes of traffic. There must always be a least one trailer wheel that freewheels in order to maintain directional control.
This is why you see so many jackknife trailer accidents in states that mandate trailer brakes on all axles. Lawmakers who write these laws do not understand the physics involved.
The only safe way that you can have trailer brakes on all axles is with the use of an ABS system and for the average guy those are hugely expensive costing thousands of dollars. You'll get about 80-90% braking effectiveness with brakes only on your front trailer axle due to the forward load shift under heavy braking. I do not put brakes on my rearmost trailer axle in order to provide good trailer directional control stability.

Other comments were That the Teknosha P3 may be the better Trailer Brakes when towing a 2 axle with Hydraulic brakes.

That changes with Electric & ABS trailer brakes

 

[2003F350]

The only safe way that you can have trailer brakes on all axles is with the use of an ABS system and for the average guy those are hugely expensive costing thousands of dollars.

With the advent of the ITBCs in just about all newer trucks, that's almost a thing of the past. Sure, it was true when everyone used pendulum-style controllers, but the new ITBCs will modulate the trailer brakes WITH the ABS of the tow vehicle. That means your standard electric brakes on your trailer SHOULDN'T be able to lock up. There are occasions where it will (an empty flatbed with your gain set too high, for example), but again that's user error, NOT the equipment being wrong. (I may or may not have done that...oops).

 

[Jigs-n-Fixtures]

If airbags are used correctly in conjunction with a WDH, then they're not a problem. The airbags need to be used as helper spring to firm up the rear end and then adjust the WDH to correct the front axle weight load. You can "fine tune" how the rear of the truck sits, even with a WDH a truck doesn't always level out.

It will tell you what the weight on the tongue is but with an active leveling rear air suspension, it can still over-leverage the front axle. If you haven't watch the video linked earlier in this thread, it showcases how air bags and WDH effect the axle loads of the truck. A WeightSafe hitch is nice to know the tongue weight but it only tells part of the story, need to know the axle weights also.

Part of using the WeighSafe TrueTow, weight distribution hitch is their phone app. You enter the lengths from the hitch to every axle, front and rear of the truck, and the center of the axles on the trailer, the distance from teh ball to the mount on the trailer to load bar mounts on the tongue, and the unladen axle loads. When you load the trailer, you enter the data on the load, which size spring bars you're using, and what the scale in the hitch says. So, if I load a 2500-pound tractor, the tongue weight should increase 250-lbs to indicate I have the load properly placed on the trailer. I check before I chain the tractor down and move fore or aft if needed. But the software is doing the math to balance things out. I could probably write a spreadsheet, to do it. The physics/dynamics is pretty straight forward.

I have aftermarket air bags on my 08, 3500. I know how far from the ground the fender lip is without the trailer loaded, and air up the bags to get to that height, before I do anything about adjusting the weight distribution hitch. Which doesn't change the tongue weight. The active self-adjusting suspension should be accomplishing the same thing, automatically. But I guess you could get into a feedback loop with it, if it is too sensitive.

After I have the truck setting level, I lever the load bars onto the trailer mounts and adjust the weight distrubution hitch to get the tongue weight value the software told me to adjust it too. I'm pretty sure that will work with the self-adjusting system on the newer trucks, if you let it settle down before adjusting the weight ditribution hitch. It might take a couple of adjustments to the weight distribution setting to get it to the target generated by the app, as the truck self-levels itself in response to the changing tongue weight. But it should get there in no more than a couple of adjustments, and they are easy to do. I'm seeing it as self-dampened sinusoidal curve. Which after a couple of iterations will settle into the proper range.

So, explain to me how I don't have the load properly distrubuted between the front and rear axles of the truck.

You have got me curious though. And next time I load up, I'll swing by the free public scales, and weigh things as I go, to see how the axle loads change during the process, just to verify what is happening. But, I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

 

[crash68]

So, explain to me how I don't have the load properly distrubuted between the front and rear axles of the truck.

I never stated you don't have the load properly distributed, I simply stated a weight-safe hitch only tells the weight applied to the hitch and that other factors apply in determining how a load is put on a trailer and how to adjust the WDH. The best way to adjust a WDH is to use a truck scale that will show the actual truck axle weights before attaching the trailer and after(all axles including trailer). I'm sure there people who don't bother with Weight-Safe app or enter the information correctly.
As for the active suspension trucks, the OEM system has a "Jack Mode" that stops the system from adjusting.

And next time I load up, I'll swing by the free public scales, and weigh things as I go, to see how the axle loads change during the process, just to verify what is happening.

You'll want a weight of the truck by itself loaded as if your towing the trailer and then a weight of the truck and trailer loaded together. You can calculate the actual trailer tongue weight percentage with those numbers.

 

[dhay13]

I have towed a 9000lb boat, an 8100lb TT and a 9300lb TT and have CAT scaled every one of them. The boat was about 6% TW and both TT's were at about 12.5% TW. Never an issue. Keep in mind boats will have less TW so that 6% is close to normal.
Point is, I have literally been towing trailers since I was 11 (dad had a farm and I drove his F250 around the hay fields while they loaded the truck and trailer). I'm now 56 and even with all of that towing experience I still went to the CAT scale. I'm betting if the OP went to the CAT scale he would fine he is outside that 10-15% TW

 

[joesstripclub]

Part of using the WeighSafe TrueTow, weight distribution hitch is their phone app. You enter the lengths from the hitch to every axle, front and rear of the truck, and the center of the axles on the trailer, the distance from teh ball to the mount on the trailer to load bar mounts on the tongue, and the unladen axle loads. When you load the trailer, you enter the data on the load, which size spring bars you're using, and what the scale in the hitch says. So, if I load a 2500-pound tractor, the tongue weight should increase 250-lbs to indicate I have the load properly placed on the trailer. I check before I chain the tractor down and move fore or aft if needed. But the software is doing the math to balance things out. I could probably write a spreadsheet, to do it. The physics/dynamics is pretty straight forward.

I have aftermarket air bags on my 08, 3500. I know how far from the ground the fender lip is without the trailer loaded, and air up the bags to get to that height, before I do anything about adjusting the weight distribution hitch. Which doesn't change the tongue weight. The active self-adjusting suspension should be accomplishing the same thing, automatically. But I guess you could get into a feedback loop with it, if it is too sensitive.

After I have the truck setting level, I lever the load bars onto the trailer mounts and adjust the weight distrubution hitch to get the tongue weight value the software told me to adjust it too. I'm pretty sure that will work with the self-adjusting system on the newer trucks, if you let it settle down before adjusting the weight ditribution hitch. It might take a couple of adjustments to the weight distribution setting to get it to the target generated by the app, as the truck self-levels itself in response to the changing tongue weight. But it should get there in no more than a couple of adjustments, and they are easy to do. I'm seeing it as self-dampened sinusoidal curve. Which after a couple of iterations will settle into the proper range.

So, explain to me how I don't have the load properly distrubuted between the front and rear axles of the truck.

You have got me curious though. And next time I load up, I'll swing by the free public scales, and weigh things as I go, to see how the axle loads change during the process, just to verify what is happening. But, I'm pretty sure I know the answer.

I'm no expert, but from what I read when I added air bags to my truck, you should adjust the WDH first then adjust the airbags. I imagine the scales will tell you if something is off though.