3.21 vs 3.92 Gear Ratio...will not be towing much.

[ramffml]

I never said anything about the 3.92’s changing payload. My responses regarding WDH’s was only about how you said we are limited to how much we can tow in the first place because of how much payload weight our trailer’s tongue takes up and like I said, if a WDH is set up properly, you reduce how much weight is riding on your hitch. That’s the whole point

Right, but it's completely irrelvant to this discussion. It doesn't change anything with respect to 3.21 and 3.92. You may as well start talking about how utility trailers are different than travel trailers, and even though it's true, it doesn't matter because it affects both trucks in the exact same way.

Even with a properly setup WDH, you are going to be payload limited; which means, you can't tow > 8000 pounds regardless of what Ram is telling you the max tow rating is.

 

[corneileous]

No, I'm not driving my truck like a 3.92. Where do you get that idea from?

The 3.21 has the same physical gears to choose from as the 3.92. You seem to think that both trucks need to be in the same numerical gear (7th, for example) at the same speed; if your truck is in 7th, then mine must be too. But that's not the case. My truck can/will be in 6th, where it has the same physical gear as yours in 7th.

Really? From what you’ve described in the past and in your next paragraph above, it sure seems that way to me because you’re emphasizing running your truck running in 7th when mine is in 8th.

Any truck has multiple gear ratios to choose from for a given speed. I'm not locked to 7th just because you are in 7th. Transmissions mainly pick a gear ratio based on throttle input (load), and speed. If your truck says it needs 7th (3.2144) for the given load and speed, well my truck has the exact same gear ratio available: 3.21. Why would the transmission pick a different gear ratio? Why would it pick a lower gear ratio and lug, or a higher one and scream for no reason? We already know the engine can run at 3.2144 because you're running it there, therefore my transmission would pick 3.21 (6th) when yours is in 7th (3.2144).

Until you understand that simple fact, you will not understand why the 3.92 is not helping you like you think it is.

I don’t see what’s so simple about this “fact”.


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[ramffml]

Really? From what you’ve described in the past and in your next paragraph above, it sure seems that way to me because you’re emphasizing running your truck running in 7th when mine is in 8th.
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I'm not using my gear limiter to force downshifts. I'm not driving my truck any special way. It's just the nature of our setup, if your truck is running in 8th then mine will be in 7th; because the two gear ratios are identical.

If two 3.92's are going down the road at the same speed and load, both trucks have a "3.2144" gear ratio to choose from, so if the one truck is using that gear ratio, so will the other. The transmission in the one truck won't pick a previous gear and rev high for no reason, nor will it pick the next gear and lug. Right?

In your truck and my truck, we both also have a "3.21(44)" gear ratio to choose from. Therefore both trucks will pick that gear. It just happens to be that in my truck, the 3.21 occurs in 6th, and in your truck the 3.2144 appears at 7th. But the label (6th vs 7th) is unimportant. What matters is the physical gear ratio in play.

 

[corneileous]

Right, but it's completely irrelvant to this discussion. It doesn't change anything with respect to 3.21 and 3.92. You may as well start talking about how utility trailers are different than travel trailers, and even though it's true, it doesn't matter because it affects both trucks in the exact same way.

Even with a properly setup WDH, you are going to be payload limited; which means, you can't tow > 8000 pounds regardless of what Ram is telling you the max tow rating is.

I know it’s irrrelevant but what you persistently keep not understanding is when you started saying that because of tongue weight, that we can’t even pull as heavy of a trailer as ram says we can because the tongue weight of an 11,000 pound trailer eats up too much of our trucks’ payload but see, not everybody is going to have a full cab of people and a bunch of **** in the bed of the truck. Me personally, if I ever was to buy a pretty heavy camper to pull behind my truck, I might… have a full cab of people but I won’t have anything in the bed of my truck. And besides that, whether the law would see it that way or not, our trucks payload is calculated just the same way as it is for climbing gear, the weight rating of a winch or anything else that is weight rated and typically, it’s rated at a lot less for safety reasons of what it can actually pull, hold or support so as long as you have a properly set up WDH that’s actually reducing the affect of your tongue weight by 25-30% of your trailer’s weight, your front end isn’t pointing towards the sky and your trailer is riding level, it shouldn’t matter if you actually do take the time to weight your truck and trailer and find out that you may be exceeding your “rated” payload.


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[fathermaxie]

If you haven't chosen yet, just test drive both ratios at your most common travel speeds and see what the mpg comes out as. You might find that you prefer one over the other inherently, 8 speed transmissions do a lot of shifting so even with the lower ratio rear and you have plenty of gear at your disposal.

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

Lol I am just sitting back reading the same thing over and over and over again ....

 

[ramffml]

I know it’s irrrelevant but what you persistently keep not understanding is when you started saying that because of tongue weight, that we can’t even pull as heavy of a trailer as ram says we can because the tongue weight of an 11,000 pound trailer eats up too much of our trucks’ payload but see, not everybody is going to have a full cab of people and a bunch of **** in the bed of the truck. Me personally, if I ever was to buy a pretty heavy camper to pull behind my truck, I might… have a full cab of people but I won’t have anything in the bed of my truck. And besides that, whether the law would see it that way or not, our trucks payload is calculated just the same way as it is for climbing gear, the weight rating of a winch or anything else that is weight rated and typically, it’s rated at a lot less for safety reasons of what it can actually pull, hold or support so as long as you have a properly set up WDH that’s actually reducing the affect of your tongue weight by 25-30% of your trailer’s weight, your front end isn’t pointing towards the sky and your trailer is riding level, it shouldn’t matter if you actually do take the time to weight your truck and trailer and find out that you may be exceeding your “rated” payload.


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Well if you agree it's irrelevant, then why bring it up? Because to me, trying to read through your post here, I get the distinct impression that you think it's fine to go past your payload with a properly setup WDH.

It's not. You are required to use a properly setup WDH on all 1500's when you're towing > 5000 pounds. You can't go over your payload and then say, well gee, I'm rated for 11000 pounds so hammer down.

In fact, if I had to pick a limit to exceed, either payload or towing, I would pick towing limit every time. You can drive slower and still be safe. Or maybe you live in flat country and don't have to tow up hills. But at a certain point when you go over payload you're going to wreck your rear axle.

The reason why most people say "you can't tow > 8000 pounds" is because of general rules. Most people don't travel solo. Most people stuff their family and luggage in the truck with them.

I'm active on several RV forums too, and the amount of misunderstanding on towing ability is huge. I blame the manufacturers for their stupid tow rating wars, and the RV dealers for just slapping a hitch on to your truck and letting you go.

In reality, for the vast majority of people, half tons can't tow beyond 8000 pounds due to payload. 8000 pounds is 3/4 ton truck territory, and it will do a far better job all around, so if you really need to tow 11000 pounds, for pity's sake by a 2500 and keep everybody safe.

 

[Pwrwagon]

Well if mpg is important go with Diesel and you can get a chip and get really good gas mileage whether you’re towing you’re not.

my power wagon does just as good as my 1500 in Laramie 12-19 mpg. Power Wagon by far better ride and performance.

I loved my 1500 til wife told me I had to sell it she bought me my power wagon for Christmas. Glad she did cause it is Awesome in every way

 

[corneileous]

I'm not using my gear limiter to force downshifts. I'm not driving my truck any special way. It's just the nature of our setup, if your truck is running in 8th then mine will be in 7th; because the two gear ratios are identical.

If two 3.92's are going down the road at the same speed and load, both trucks have a "3.2144" gear ratio to choose from, so if the one truck is using that gear ratio, so will the other. The transmission in the one truck won't pick a previous gear and rev high for no reason, nor will it pick a lower gear and lug. Right?

In your truck and my truck, we both also have a "3.21(44)" gear ratio to choose from. Therefore both trucks will pick that gear. It just happens to be that in my truck, the 3.21 occurs in 6th, and in your truck the 3.2144 appears at 7th. But the label (6th vs 7th) is unimportant. What matters is the physical gear ratio in play.

If both of our trucks are empty, nothing hooked to the hitch and it’s just you driving your truck with me driving mine then why in the hell would your truck be driving in seventh gear with mine driving in 8th???? If it ever is then you’re driving way too fast and your transmission is compensating for the extra load on your engine by downshifting a gear whereas mine can pull the same speed in the high gear because my lower rear end gears are reducing the strain on my motor and again, not only that, but my motor is winding a little faster than yours which again… is keeping my motor closer to its proper powerband where it makes the most power.

But now, if there is the same weight trailer hooked to both of our trucks, this is where the importance of my rear end gear‘s comes into play over yours because my engines not gonna have to work as hard to pull the same trailer as yours will.. I can’t make that any clearer.

But whatever man, I’m tired of arguing this with you. There’s a reason we have both gear sets as an option.


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[tidefan1967]

3.92s are a $95 option so why not get them and if I were you I would make sure it has limited slip while I was at it!

 

[Reaver]

Bottom line:
in a 4x4 crew cab short bed:
3.21 gear ratio gives you a towing capacity of 8,220 lbs
3.92 gear ratio gives you a towing capacity of 11,320 lbs

If you're towing less than 8,220 on a regular basis and want the best gas mileage, get the 3.21 ratio. They are the standard ratio and easier to find anyway.

If you're towing more than 8,220 on occation, get the 3.92 ratio. It pulls better. Period.

Source: https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuild...jGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBONjPJTiLoD5

 

[ramffml]

If both of our trucks are empty, nothing hooked to the hitch and it’s just you driving your truck with me driving mine then why in the hell would your truck be driving in seventh gear with mine driving in 8th???? If it ever is then you’re driving way too fast and your transmission is compensating for the extra load on your engine by downshifting a gear whereas mine can pull the same speed in the high gear because my lower rear end gears are reducing the strain on my motor and again, not only that, but my motor is winding a little faster than yours which again… is keeping my motor closer to its proper powerband where it makes the most power.

No, no, no. 1000 times no. Lets go back to my previous example and walk through this point by point.

Statement #1: Two identical 3.92 trucks are driving down the road at same time with the same load. The one truck is in 7th gear. Is the second truck also in 7th gear?

Depending on your answer, we can go from there.

 

[ramffml]

3.92s are a $95 option so why not get them

He told you why. MPG. Literally the first post in this thread.

You guys aren't actually reading, you're just posting your preferences.

 

[corneileous]

Well if you agree it's irrelevant, then why bring it up?

Are ya really gonna make me say it again?

Yes, the OP started a thread about gear ratios, not weight distribution hitches and payload capacity but it was YOU who said that even us with the higher trailer tow ratings can’t even do that and yes, if you load the **** out of your truck and don’t use a WDH, you probably can’t.

Because to me, trying to read through your post here, I get the distinct impression that you think it's fine to go past your payload with a properly setup WDH.

So you take what manufacturer ratings are for gospel?

It's not. You are required to use a properly setup WDH on all 1500's when you're towing > 5000 pounds. You can't go over your payload and then say, well gee, I'm rated for 11000 pounds so hammer down.

In fact, if I had to pick a limit to exceed, either payload or towing, I would pick towing limit every time. You can drive slower and still be safe. Or maybe you live in flat country and don't have to tow up hills. But at a certain point when you go over payload you're going to wreck your rear axle.

The reason why most people say "you can't tow > 8000 pounds" is because of general rules. Most people don't travel solo. Most people stuff their family and luggage in the truck with them.

I'm active on several RV forums too, and the amount of misunderstanding on towing ability is huge. I blame the manufacturers for their stupid tow rating wars, and the RV dealers for just slapping a hitch on to your truck and letting you go.

In reality, for the vast majority of people, half tons can't tow beyond 8000 pounds due to payload. 8000 pounds is 3/4 ton truck territory, and it will do a far better job all around, so if you really need to tow 11000 pounds, for pity's sake by a 2500 and keep everybody safe.

I agree with buying the appropriate vehicle but if people choose to overload their tow vehicle in such a manner that you said then what do you expect me to say? Maybe Ram expects their customers to be smarter than that.

But about the “wrecking your rear axle” comment; if you’re not heavy on the throttle and trying to pull that heavy trailer like it’s not even back there then you probably will start tearing stuff up and the main thing is using your vehicle’s tow/haul mode. How many people do and how many don’t? Those are also important factors to consider.


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[CheechDogg.0n37s]

3.92s are a $95 option so why not get them and if I were you I would make sure it has limited slip while I was at it!

Lol ! I thought I was getting the 3.92s on my truck and it didn't come with them and instead I got the 3.21s ... but I ended up regearing to 4.88s because I went up to 37" tires ...

Honestly I wouldn't go with the 3.21s just to get 1-3 more MPGs on a damn truck .... I didn't buy a truck to get the most MPGs out of it lol ... I have a damn 93 Toyota Corolla that I get over 30 MPG which I use mostly to go to work ...

At some point most of us want to add bigger tires to our trucks anyways and with 3.92s you can easily go up to a 35" tire without the "need" to regear ... anything over 35" tires and you would want to regear to 4.56s .....

3.21s up to a 35" tire if you don't plan to tow IMO my buddy @the_goodguy07 has 3.21s on his truck and it runs just fine with 35" tires

3.92s up to a 35" if you plan to tow but you should really think about regearing to 4.56s

4.56s with any combination of 35" and 37" tires and not have to worry about towing

4.88s if you go over anything bigger than 35" tires especially 37"s .....

When I had the 3.21s with the 37"s I didn't "need" to regear as I was still getting up to 15 MPGs believe it or not .... I chose to regear because I wanted the ability to accelerate without the truck having problems doing so and being able to hold 5th through 8th gear when going up hill or even on the highway at times ...

Seriously, if you are looking to save money on gas a truck is not what you should be looking at ... I would go with the 3.92s and be ready for towing in case you needed to .... because honestly I wouldn't be towing with a 3.21 geared truck anyways .... I know that you can tow something small like a trailer with bikes or some water toys but other than than I wouldn't ever tow with a 3.21 ...

 

[corneileous]

Bottom line:
in a 4x4 crew cab short bed:
3.21 gear ratio gives you a towing capacity of 8,220 lbs
3.92 gear ratio gives you a towing capacity of 11,320 lbs

If you're towing less than 8,220 on a regular basis and want the best gas mileage, get the 3.21 ratio. They are the standard ratio and easier to find anyway.

If you're towing more than 8,220 on occation, get the 3.92 ratio. It pulls better. Period.

Source: https://www.ramtrucks.com/BodyBuild...jGgHzAHGUTU0WB3rWuqSY7YmQ2vEhuBWBONjPJTiLoD5

Well said but I would even go as far to say that even if you’re only pulling a trailer on a regular basis that’s at 8000 pounds, you probably would still be much better off with the 392s anyway because the fact of the matter is, the trucks that are equipped with the 321 gears are really only for those people who don’t tow and want gas mileage. Those gears are for the people that even more are the reason why pickups are so popular these days because they couldn’t be any closer to the truth for people who want a truck but have no business having a truck in the first place because they have no intentions of using it like a truck.


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[CheechDogg.0n37s]

He told you why. MPG. Literally the first post in this thread.

You guys aren't actually reading, you're just posting your preferences.

Dude seriously.... the difference between 3.21s and 3.92s MPGs is not that much to not choose a 3.92 ... Forget the towing he specifically said he is not going to be doing a lot of towing but to have the piece of mind in case you do have to at some point and not regret it go with the 3.92s .... again I was getting up to 15 MPGs with the 3.21s with 37" tires but I don't tow and I wasn't driving my truck like I am doing now lol ... now that I have the 4.88s I am getting 11 MPG and only because I am having fun driving my truck around town ... I was still at 13-15 MPG when I first regeared to 4.88s and on the highway I would get up to 17 MPG with both setups .....

I am willing to bet that if the OP goes with the 3.21s at some point he will come back and say "damn you guys, I should of gotten the 3.92s like some of you guys suggested I do" .... you can just do so much more with the 3.92s than the 3.21s and save even more money in the long run ....

 

[corneileous]

Lol ! I thought I was getting the 3.92s on my truck and it didn't come with them and instead I got the 3.21s ... but I ended up regearing to 4.88s because I went up to 37" tires ...

Honestly I wouldn't go with the 3.21s just to get 1-3 more MPGs on a damn truck .... I didn't buy a truck to get the most MPGs out of it lol ... I have a damn 93 Toyota Corolla that I get over 30 MPG which I use mostly to go to work ...

At some point most of us want to add bigger tires to our trucks anyways and with 3.92s you can easily go up to a 35" tire without the "need" to regear ... anything over 35" tires and you would want to regear to 4.56s .....

3.21s up to a 35" tire if you don't plan to tow IMO my buddy @the_goodguy07 has 3.21s on his truck and it runs just fine with 35" tires

3.92s up to a 35" if you plan to tow but you should really think about regearing to 4.56s

4.56s with any combination of 35" and 37" tires and not have to worry about towing

4.88s if you go over anything bigger than 35" tires especially 37"s .....

When I had the 3.21s with the 37"s I didn't "need" to regear as I was still getting up to 15 MPGs believe it or not .... I chose to regear because I wanted the ability to accelerate without the truck having problems doing so and being able to hold 5th through 8th gear when going up hill or even on the highway at times ...

Seriously, if you are looking to save money on gas a truck is not what you should be looking at ... I would go with the 3.92s and be ready for towing in case you needed to .... because honestly I wouldn't be towing with a 3.21 geared truck anyways .... I know that you can tow something small like a trailer with bikes or some water toys but other than than I wouldn't ever tow with a 3.21 ...

Exactly. I’ve stated before that the only trailer that I tow is a little bitty single axle 10 foot utility trailer that really only has my riding lawnmower on it as I use that to take my mower over to my moms house to cut her grass but, there was a time when a buddy of mine needed his Mustang hauled to the transmission shop so, I’m really glad that my truck had the 392s because pulling the heavy duty flatbed trailer that my boss has with his car on it, sure made it nice having the properly geared truck, just for that one time.


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[CheechDogg.0n37s]

Well said but I would even go as far to say that even if you’re only pulling a trailer on a regular basis that’s at 8000 pounds, you probably would still be much better off with the 392s anyway because the fact of the matter is, the trucks that are equipped with the 321 gears are really only for those people who don’t tow and want gas mileage. Those gears are for the people that even more are the reason why pickups are so popular these days because they couldn’t be any closer to the truth for people who want a truck but have no business having a truck in the first place because they have no intentions of using it like a truck.


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Oh dude that is something I forgot to mention myself lol ... people do want trucks just to have a truck because of the look but I don't see a problem with that though lol ... I have my truck and it's a 2wd with 37"s and 4.88s and I don't go offroading with it, but I do use it as a truck because I own a home which needs a truck to go to home depot or other places where I buy tons of stuff needed for the yard, house and other things .... not all people who buy a truck buy it to just go offroading which is what I am assuming you are talking about when you say "no intentions of using it like a truck" ....

 

[corneileous]

He told you why. MPG. Literally the first post in this thread.

You guys aren't actually reading, you're just posting your preferences.

He said MAX mileage so, that’s why somewhere within this discussion I recommended an EcoDiesel because you still get a good towing capacity and you’ll get way better mileage than any Hemi even if it is transferring power to the rear wheels though a high-geared differential.


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