8HP70 fluid exchange

[indept]

I'm glad I have the maxcare lifetime warranty....

 

[Wild one]

All right. I own a quick lube and have recently serviced a 2014 with 8 speed. Did not drop the pan. We have an exchange machine that is low pressure, uses trans pump mostly, is a 1 for 1 exchange, and is installed inline at the cooler line connection. Now, the fluid we use is a universal product that says is compatible with 68218925AA, the Mopar 8-9 speed fluid.

We did the service on 10-1. On 11-14 the customer went to the dealership stating having to try multiple tries to get into reverse. They diagnosed it as the selector switch. Had it replaced. On 11-19 supposedly has the switch replaced. On 12-11, the trans quits all together. This is all from the current repair order that I have of the truck. I am not 100% sure if all the services had the same customer concern.

So, after all this the dealership pulls some fluid out and says, no warranty, I used atf+4 and of course it a "sealed for life transmission". I file a claim with my insurance. Gave them the spec sheet showing compatibility. They deny the claim because we used "correct" fluid. Service manager says he "spoke" to the field rep and they are not going to do anything about it. Alright, I get it. I've done my research. I did the exact same procedure and fluid on my wife's durango and it's still running fine.

Contacted the manufacturer of the trans fluid and they keep saying its compatible. Now they want me to send a sample.

In the mean time, I have authorized the repairs for the truck and will be paying out of pocket. I will not become "that shop".

Not sure if this a rant or just a "have any of you guys seen something like this" advise kind of thing. I am sure I will be having to take this to court with the dealership. Everyone I've talked to keeps bringing up the Magnuson Moss Act with the warranty deal. Anyway, have a good weekend, folks.

I was under the impression ATF+4 was not compatiable with the 8/9 speed fluid.Next time bite the bullet for your customer and get the proper fluid from the dealer. It'll save your ass,even if your customer whines about the cost.Did you do a pan swap,you have to replace the original pan to change the filter,as the filter is part of the pan.Next time do a little more research as these newer style trannies are very fluid specific,and it takes the profit out of your day if you have to replace a high dollar tranny on your dime. The transmission pan has to be level to check the fluid,which means you need to jack the ass end of the truck a couple feet in the air.I've posted the factory fluid level checking instructions and the procedures involved a couple times ,do a search you should be able to find them.If not pick one of the facebook pages like Tuned Rams/High Performance Rams,and i'll repost them for you.It's to f'ing hard to get them back on here,but i'll repost them on either of those facebook pages for you.

 

[Wild one]

Here's a link to my facebook posting of the proper fluid level checking instructions for the ZF.If you guys can't see this,join facebook.These are the factory fill instructions that came with my brand new ZF 8 speed

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=789363274738205&set=gm.2045902538832976&type=3&theater&ifg=1

 

[SyN]

I liked the 8HP70 in my previous 2014 Ram - But I am thankful I don't have to worry about the service of the unit any longer!

My 68RFE is no where near as complex or smooth shifting but she is fast & easy to service!

Shawn used a non recommended ZF 8speed fluid from his 1st service and never had an issue. Take it with a grain of salt and even used the Maxlife in his BW44-44 with never an issue..


This video was after he had dropped the old pan already and replaced with a new pan & filter. This is just how he refilled the 8sp with ATF.

Just posted for more information.
His 8HP70 & BW44-44 had accumulated well over 200K miles with mild to heavy towing!

My advice is use the recommended ATF...

 

[Wild one]

All right. I own a quick lube and have recently serviced a 2014 with 8 speed. Did not drop the pan. We have an exchange machine that is low pressure, uses trans pump mostly, is a 1 for 1 exchange, and is installed inline at the cooler line connection. Now, the fluid we use is a universal product that says is compatible with 68218925AA, the Mopar 8-9 speed fluid.

We did the service on 10-1. On 11-14 the customer went to the dealership stating having to try multiple tries to get into reverse. They diagnosed it as the selector switch. Had it replaced. On 11-19 supposedly has the switch replaced. On 12-11, the trans quits all together. This is all from the current repair order that I have of the truck. I am not 100% sure if all the services had the same customer concern.

So, after all this the dealership pulls some fluid out and says, no warranty, I used atf+4 and of course it a "sealed for life transmission". I file a claim with my insurance. Gave them the spec sheet showing compatibility. They deny the claim because we used "correct" fluid. Service manager says he "spoke" to the field rep and they are not going to do anything about it. Alright, I get it. I've done my research. I did the exact same procedure and fluid on my wife's durango and it's still running fine.

Contacted the manufacturer of the trans fluid and they keep saying its compatible. Now they want me to send a sample.

In the mean time, I have authorized the repairs for the truck and will be paying out of pocket. I will not become "that shop".

Not sure if this a rant or just a "have any of you guys seen something like this" advise kind of thing. I am sure I will be having to take this to court with the dealership. Everyone I've talked to keeps bringing up the Magnuson Moss Act with the warranty deal. Anyway, have a good weekend, folks.

BTW,you'll be on the hook for a new A/C condenser and A/C recharge,as the transmission cooler is part of the A/C condenser,and you'll never get all the ATF+4 flushed out of it,unless you flush a pile of new ZF 8/9 speed fluid through it,and in the long run,it'll be cheaper to replace the condenser,as from everything I've gathered up,there's a good chance you've screwed up all the seals in everything by using the wrong fluid

 

[chrisbh17]

The ram has that bypass valve the Weber video was referring to, correct? So we should perform this procedure TWICE to be sure the level is correct?

No way in hell is a tech going to do this as a troubleshooting step.

Who would be competent enough that you would trust to do this?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Wild one]

The ram has that bypass valve the Weber video was referring to, correct? So we should perform this procedure TWICE to be sure the level is correct?

No way in hell is a tech going to do this as a troubleshooting step.

Who would be competent enough that you would trust to do this?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

None of the video's I've seen lift the vehicle so that the transmission pan rail is level ,and the ZF instructions that come with a new transmission,are very specific about getting the pan rail level before checking the fluid.

 

[chrisbh17]

None of the video's I've seen lift the vehicle so that the transmission pan rail is level ,and the ZF instructions that come with a new transmission,are very specific about getting the pan rail level before checking the fluid.

I knew about that part (the service manual does make a note of it).

But the service manual does NOT mention the bypass valve at all. Nor does it say to perform the check again once the trans has gotten up to a temp high enough to close the bypass, which could show a different fluid level.

 

[Wild one]

I knew about that part (the service manual does make a note of it).

But the service manual does NOT mention the bypass valve at all. Nor does it say to perform the check again once the trans has gotten up to a temp high enough to close the bypass, which could show a different fluid level.

I question that part of Webers video,as it's my understanding the bypass is never "totally" closed,it's a controlled leak up till the bypass hits 185F where it goes to full flow.If the bypass totally closes,you are going to have air pockets in the cooler lines,and when the bypass does open,it's going to be a shock to the system, if all of a sudden you have full flow of cold fluid into a hot transmission.Even your engine thermostat has a controlled leak when it's cold,to keep air pockets and system shock to a mininium. When I replaced my transmission,i flushed the **** out of everything with ZF fluid,then did 4 pan drops and fluid changes afterwards.When I did the pan drops,i did the fluid level check at the temps they say to check it at,then I would drive the truck till the tranny was at least up above 175,and not once did the fluid levels change when the tranny cooled off to 120F and I rechecked the fluid again.So as far as having to get the tranny up to 185F to cycle the bypass to full flow,i don't think is required,as the bypass is still circulating fluid through the cooler,it's just not at full flow.

 

[Mopar1987]

I really just want folks to read the link I posted to not be afraid of the service interval of these transmissions. Yes, there are aftermarket fluids that say they are compatible with this transmission. Redline D6 says it’s compatible as well as Valvoline MaxLife atf. Are they on the list of approved aftermarket manufacturers by ZF, no.

 

[Mopar1987]

BTW,you'll be on the hook for a new A/C condenser and A/C recharge,as the transmission cooler is part of the A/C condenser,and you'll never get all the ATF+4 flushed out of it,unless you flush a pile of new ZF 8/9 speed fluid through it,and in the long run,it'll be cheaper to replace the condenser,as from everything I've gathered up,there's a good chance you've screwed up all the seals in everything by using the wrong fluid

I am well aware. For $7,000 at the dealership, the ac work is included.

 

[Mopar1987]

As I’ve said before. Did I use the factory fluid, no. But, like anybody else, if I used a fluid that said was compatible, then I am giving my full faith that the fluid will work. I didn’t put the research time and money into the compatibility. If the fluid used deatroys the fluid because the fluid manufacturer missed a step or did not truly give compatibility verified, that’s on them. I am rectifying the situation on my own dime and will be fighting the fluid manufacturer or the dealership. When I did the fluid exchange, I used a fluid exchanger, not a flush machine. I had the trans temp to operating temp. The machine did a 1 for 1 exchange for 12 quarts. It did not add any extra nor did it remove any extra.

 

[PoMansRam]

I agree with you Mopar1987. The corporation that owns Valvoline is not going to put themselves into a bad legal situation by saying Maxlife is suitable for use in the 8HP70 when it is not. Knowing how corporation work and the need they have to protect themselves, There is NO WAY they are going to say it's good to go on the bottle, when it is not. Hopefully you will get reimbursed for your troubles with this.

 

[PoMansRam]

Just to expand on my question towards the start of this thread. Here are pics of the pan drain plug on the 8HP70. It does look like it can be removed and replaced, which like said, should make a cold spill and fill so simple a cave man could do it. No need to drop the pan. Every thread I've seen is with dropping the pan without first draining it. Dunno why this is.

 

[Mopar1987]

Yes. I believe it’s an 11mm Allen. And the fill hole is on the passenger side.

Just to expand on my question towards the start of this thread. Here are pics of the pan drain plug on the 8HP70. It does look like it can be removed and replaced, which like said, should make a cold spill and fill so simple a cave man could do it. No need to drop the pan. Every thread I've seen is with dropping the pan without first draining it. Dunno why this is.

 

[Rader]

The mileage at the time of the service was approx 86000. The fluid we use is red. Same as Valveoline MaxLife that I’ve see plenty of people use

Yup, Valvoline Maxlife full synthetic in my 2015 8 speed behind an EcoDiesel, zero issues if anything it shifts smoother in very cold or very hot weather extremes than it did with OEM fluid.

 

[Rader]

I am well aware. For $7,000 at the dealership, the ac work is included.

Rather overkill to spend $7,000 on a brand new transmission for a 2014 truck with over 80,000 miles on it. Especially considering that you can buy one with less than half that mileage on it from a wrecking yard for from $500 up to around $800 for one with a quarter of that mileage on it and you can very likely have a transmission shop install it for around $300.00. Look here http://www.car-part.com/

 

[Mopar1987]

Rather overkill to spend $7,000 on a brand new transmission for a 2014 truck with over 80,000 miles on it. Especially considering that you can buy one with less than half that mileage on it from a wrecking yard for from $500 up to around $800 for one with a quarter of that mileage on it and you can very likely have a transmission shop install it for around $300.00. Look here http://www.car-part.com/

Weeeeeeell, what has me in a bind is that it is still under warranty. Not by much but it is. It will age out before mileage out. And I am not sure if he has an extended warranty, Maxcare or other. So, the dealership is saying that anything this fluid is in will have to be replaced, due to "bad fluid". That means cooler lines, trans mounted cooler, condenser/cooler, trans itself etc.

 

[PoMansRam]

Mopar1987, I know that you are a business owner and there's aspects of this that I'm sure I don't have a clue.

Thing is, why are you taking the blame for this? You used a fluid that is suitable for use in this application.

I would think it's in your best interest to be given proof that the fluid you used caused the failure. If the dealer is going by color alone, which I have a feeling they are, I'd hold my ground. I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer took your money and still got reimbursed in some way from FCA on top of it.

 

[chrisbh17]

Mopar1987, I know that you are a business owner and there's aspects of this that I'm sure I don't have a clue.

Thing is, why are you taking the blame for this? You used a fluid that is suitable for use in this application.

I would think it's in your best interest to be given proof that the fluid you used caused the failure. If the dealer is going by color alone, which I have a feeling they are, I'd hold my ground. I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer took your money and still got reimbursed in some way from FCA on top of it.

I think he posted that he plans on taking it to the fluid manufacturer for his own reimbursement, after he covers the replacement cost for his customer (which is great customer service, if you ask me!)

I just hope Valvoline or whoever doesn't give him grief if they really put that their fluid is suitable, even if the fluid didnt really cause the issue at hand.