8HP70 Trans shudder, getting worse, no codes, how to diagnose ?

[Uncle Damo]

My '14 CC 2wd has only 51k miles on it. I recently bought a 5600 lb toy hauler and have towed it 6 times, and in the last 2 trips the truck has developed a shudder when shifting 1-2. It can barely be felt if I am really light on the throttle on level ground, but if I put my foot into it at all or if on a hill, it results in an almost violent deep vibrating shudder. I don't get the feeling at all once up to speed in 2 gear or higher. When the truck is empty, I can just barely get it to act up if I start from a stop on a steep hill, otherwise it's not noticeable.

I have the lifetime warranty and called the dealer to see how to deal with it. I offered to bring my trailer hooked up to show them since it's reproducible every time. Their response was that there's nothing they can do - they can't go for a test drive with me, and since there no CEL I just need to wait until there is a code. This seems ridiculous, essentially just telling me to drive it until it breaks (and hopefully not in the middle of the desert in July with my trailer.)

For those who've had TC issues and shuddering, did you get any CEL ? Or did your dealer handle it differently ?

 

[Wild one]

ZF reconmends changing the fluid and filter between 50,000 and 80,000 miles,or 8 years,you're at the bottom end of the milege scale,but you are getting close to the 8 year mark.It might not fix it,but if there's no codes,it's about all you can try for now.
Here's the instructions for checking the fluid level after replacing the intergrated pan and filter assembly.Pay attention to the first highlighted paragraph,you need the back tires a fair ways in the air,to get the transmissions pan rail level.These are the instructions that come with a "brand new" 8 speed from the dealer,they aren't cheap to get,i speak from experience,lol

 

[Uncle Damo]

Thanks for the idea Wild One. I'm concerned that if I went that route I could void the warranty since I'd have to replace the pan and filter. Puts us in a difficult spot when ZF recommends something different than DC.

 

[Wild one]

Thanks for the idea Wild One. I'm concerned that if I went that route I could void the warranty since I'd have to replace the pan and filter. Puts us in a difficult spot when ZF recommends something different than DC.

Use the factory pan and ZF 8/9 speed fluid from the dealer.You must have an aftermarket warrenty of some sort,if you still have warrenty on a 14.

 

[Uncle Damo]

I have the Mopar Lifetime 999,999 mile warranty, so I have to use Ram dealers for this issue to use the coverage.

 

[Wild one]

I have the Mopar Lifetime 999,999 mile warranty, so I have to use Ram dealers for this issue to use the coverage.

Then use the factory/dealer replacement pan / filter and fluid . Sounds like you're getting nowhere with your dealer,so you might be on your own to try a fluid swap,or learn to live with it,till it scatters parts.With no codes the dealer isn't going to be much help.

 

[chrisbh17]

Then use the factory/dealer replacement pan / filter and fluid . Sounds like you're getting nowhere with your dealer,so you might be on your own to try a fluid swap,or learn to live with it,till it scatters parts.With no codes the dealer isn't going to be much help.

No CEL means no issue! Typical.

@OP I would just run it until it does throw a code. My dealers are the same way - there cant be a problem if there is no light on the dash. Because there is absolutely nothing thats strictly mechanical in these trucks, right? SMH.

My 9 to 5 deals with computers and I still dont trust my truck to know better than me....maybe I just need to let go

 

[Wild one]

My '14 CC 2wd has only 51k miles on it. I recently bought a 5600 lb toy hauler and have towed it 6 times, and in the last 2 trips the truck has developed a shudder when shifting 1-2. It can barely be felt if I am really light on the throttle on level ground, but if I put my foot into it at all or if on a hill, it results in an almost violent deep vibrating shudder. I don't get the feeling at all once up to speed in 2 gear or higher. When the truck is empty, I can just barely get it to act up if I start from a stop on a steep hill, otherwise it's not noticeable.

I have the lifetime warranty and called the dealer to see how to deal with it. I offered to bring my trailer hooked up to show them since it's reproducible every time. Their response was that there's nothing they can do - they can't go for a test drive with me, and since there no CEL I just need to wait until there is a code. This seems ridiculous, essentially just telling me to drive it until it breaks (and hopefully not in the middle of the desert in July with my trailer.)

For those who've had TC issues and shuddering, did you get any CEL ? Or did your dealer handle it differently ?

The 5/6 speeds do have convertor issues occassionally,but it's rare with the 8 speed,that doesn't mean it can't be the convertor in an 8 speed,it's just a little more rare

 

[misfit77]

Is Ramcares still a thing here?

They might be able to help.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

My '14 CC 2wd has only 51k miles on it. I recently bought a 5600 lb toy hauler and have towed it 6 times, and in the last 2 trips the truck has developed a shudder when shifting 1-2. It can barely be felt if I am really light on the throttle on level ground, but if I put my foot into it at all or if on a hill, it results in an almost violent deep vibrating shudder. I don't get the feeling at all once up to speed in 2 gear or higher. When the truck is empty, I can just barely get it to act up if I start from a stop on a steep hill, otherwise it's not noticeable.

I have the lifetime warranty and called the dealer to see how to deal with it. I offered to bring my trailer hooked up to show them since it's reproducible every time. Their response was that there's nothing they can do - they can't go for a test drive with me, and since there no CEL I just need to wait until there is a code. This seems ridiculous, essentially just telling me to drive it until it breaks (and hopefully not in the middle of the desert in July with my trailer.)

For those who've had TC issues and shuddering, did you get any CEL ? Or did your dealer handle it differently ?

The TCM has numerous driving style patterns programmed. Since there are no codes I simply suggest change your driving style for a week or two.

What does that mean? If you drive slow and cautious drive more a aggressive and faster and do so for a few hundred miles. My hunch is your TCM will change maps and eliminate or at least temporarily eliminate that shutter you currently experience.

By allowing the truck to enter into more aggressive shift patterns I propose your shutter at low speed will change.

What I'm not sure of are the measurements. Someone like @Tach_tech could chime in more info if he is able I think?

 

[Uncle Damo]

The TCM has numerous driving style patterns programmed. Since there are no codes I simply suggest change your driving style for a week or two.

What does that mean? If you drive slow and cautious drive more a aggressive and faster and do so for a few hundred miles. My hunch is your TCM will change maps and eliminate or at least temporarily eliminate that shutter you currently experience.

By allowing the truck to enter into more aggressive shift patterns I propose your shutter at low speed will change.

What I'm not sure of are the measurements. Someone like @Tach_tech could chime in more info if he is able I think?

That's very interesting to me RedSRT4Me. I do drive it fairly aggressively and always have, the sounds from the CAI and 5" tips help to encourage that. Thing is, the first 4 times I towed it didn't shudder at all, then just started happening. All 6 tows were in the last year. I'm eager to go down this thought path, but not sure what you meant by measurements.

 

[Tach_tech]

The TCM has numerous driving style patterns programmed. Since there are no codes I simply suggest change your driving style for a week or two.

What does that mean? If you drive slow and cautious drive more a aggressive and faster and do so for a few hundred miles. My hunch is your TCM will change maps and eliminate or at least temporarily eliminate that shutter you currently experience.

By allowing the truck to enter into more aggressive shift patterns I propose your shutter at low speed will change.

What I'm not sure of are the measurements. Someone like @Tach_tech could chime in more info if he is able I think?

What do you mean by measurements?

 

[Wild one]

That's very interesting to me RedSRT4Me. I do drive it fairly aggressively and always have, the sounds from the CAI and 5" tips help to encourage that. Thing is, the first 4 times I towed it didn't shudder at all, then just started happening. All 6 tows were in the last year. I'm eager to go down this thought path, but not sure what you meant by measurements.

Disconnect the battery for a 1/2 hour ,and step on the brakes to drain the system,then hook the battery back up,and go drive it like you stole it,if you want to try out Red's tip.

 

[Tach_tech]

Disconnect the battery for a 1/2 hour ,and step on the brakes to drain the system,then hook the battery back up,and go drive it like you stole it,if you want to try out Red's tip.

The only issue with that is that the CVI adaptives only learn under very specific conditions. You pretty much have to drive like a grandma carrying her faberge egg collection in order for the clutch’s to learn the CVI.

Still worth a shot though.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

What do you mean by measurements?

With the adaptive learning is it miles or time that dictates when the driving pattern is more or less permanent per se? I don't know the exact language used to get to what I'm trying to ask.

I

 

[Tach_tech]

With the adaptive learning is it miles or time that dictates when the driving pattern is more or less permanent per se? I don't know the exact language used to get to what I'm trying to ask.

I

Oh ok, that honestly I don’t have a real answer for. As far as I can find out it pretty much can change shift maps on the fly. However I think that if you favour an aggressive style it will default more or less to the aggressive style, but as far as how long that takes, it’s not available in the service information as far as I can find.

 

[TheEnder]

The only issue with that is that the CVI adaptives only learn under very specific conditions. You pretty much have to drive like a grandma carrying her faberge egg collection in order for the clutch’s to learn the CVI.

Still worth a shot though.

This really only applies to the 6 speed - 8 speeds don’t go off of CVIs, they go off of fill-time.

Not much different i know, but with shuddering, i’d expect an eaten up torque converter.


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[TheEnder]

With the adaptive learning is it miles or time that dictates when the driving pattern is more or less permanent per se? I don't know the exact language used to get to what I'm trying to ask.

I

It’s miles.

With the RFE, after a quicklearn, it’s advised to not bring the vehicle past a 50° throttle angle because the TCM will not learn past that for the first 500 mi.

Also with the RFE, it has to be over 110°F for it to start to learn adaptives. The 8 speed needs to be brought up to operating temp for it to learn adaptives, and the only way to do a “quicklearn” with the 8 speed is to have the dealer do it. AlfaOBD won’t do it from what i hear, but i’m not willing to find out.


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[RedSRT4Me]

That's very interesting to me RedSRT4Me. I do drive it fairly aggressively and always have, the sounds from the CAI and 5" tips help to encourage that. Thing is, the first 4 times I towed it didn't shudder at all, then just started happening. All 6 tows were in the last year. I'm eager to go down this thought path, but not sure what you meant by measurements.

Ok my mistake then drive it like it's Sunday for maybe a couple days.

I have a feeling the shutter is from a specific driving style map that causes it. Almost like it was a good enough can't see it from my back yard mentality.

 

[TheEnder]

My '14 CC 2wd has only 51k miles on it. I recently bought a 5600 lb toy hauler and have towed it 6 times, and in the last 2 trips the truck has developed a shudder when shifting 1-2. It can barely be felt if I am really light on the throttle on level ground, but if I put my foot into it at all or if on a hill, it results in an almost violent deep vibrating shudder. I don't get the feeling at all once up to speed in 2 gear or higher. When the truck is empty, I can just barely get it to act up if I start from a stop on a steep hill, otherwise it's not noticeable.

I have the lifetime warranty and called the dealer to see how to deal with it. I offered to bring my trailer hooked up to show them since it's reproducible every time. Their response was that there's nothing they can do - they can't go for a test drive with me, and since there no CEL I just need to wait until there is a code. This seems ridiculous, essentially just telling me to drive it until it breaks (and hopefully not in the middle of the desert in July with my trailer.)

For those who've had TC issues and shuddering, did you get any CEL ? Or did your dealer handle it differently ?

A few questions which would help me:

What temp is the tranny at when this issue is faced?
Does it happen cold when the vehicle is loaded up?
Are you running it in tow/haul when you have this issue?
Do you notice any sluggishness with the vehicle? As in the engine doesn’t seem to be performing as well as it should?


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