Another 4.7 Engine Tick - Anything else to try before engine rebuild?

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Rob G B

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I have a Ram 1500 4.7 4X4 which I bought with an engine tick and which has 207,000 KM (124,000 Miles). The body and interior are excellent and I got the truck for a good enough price that I can put whatever money I need into the engine if I have to and it is still a good value. I have tried many things to resolve the tick, and at this point I am ready to pull the engine because that is the only way I can really see what is going on. Before I do that I was hoping for more experienced people to advise if there is anything else I should do first.

Here is a video of the tick, which has not changed regardless of the repairs I have made:

To diagnose the issue I have counted the cadence of the tick which seems to be about 1/4 of engine RPM. This told me that the tick appeared to be somewhere in the valve train. The oil pressure seems to be normal. There are no engine codes. It is difficult to tell if this sound is coming from the top or bottom, or the left or right. I have a mechanic's stethoscope and no matter where I put it I can hear the tick. It definitely sounds louder from the bottom end, on the driver's side right on the back frost plug. So if it is in the valve train, shouldn't the sound be louder on the top end and on one side?

If I rev the engine up to 1500 - 2000 RPM and hold it there the tick reduces dramatically. When I let my foot off the gas, the tick comes back as it starts to approach lower RPM and idle. The tick does not change with engine temperature.

What I have checked and done so far:

1) Looked for smoke - there is no smoke at any time when the truck is running, startup or warm
2) Oil and coolant look normal
3) Looked at all the spark plugs and they look normal
4) Took compression test (130 - 150 PSI each cylinder, which seems low but I did not disconnect the fuel and take the test with the throttle wide open which I think I am supposed to do)
5) Removed the accessories
6) Changed all lash adjusters and rocker arms - There was some movement but everything actually seemed to be pretty good. There is no movement in anything now
7) Looked at (but did not mic) the cams and they looked fine. If these are only slightly outside of spec would it cause a tick, or would lobes worn enough to cause a tick be obvious?
8) Replaced the complete timing set including chains, gears, and adjusters; adjusters were at max and there was slack in the cam chains so it was time anyway
9) Replaced the exhaust manifolds - both were warped up to 3/16 inch and were leaking based on the burn marks on the gaskets
10) Checked the flex plate and bolts and all appeared normal
11) Removed the coil wires one at a time on each cylinder to see if there was any change in the sound (to diagnose if it is a rod bearing) and there was no change
12) Even though I did not think it was a rod bearing, I removed the oil pan and removed all of the connecting rod bearings. They looked brand new and after plasti-gauging them they were all easily within tolerance. Manipulated the connecting rods and there did not appear to be any up and down movement in the wrist pins. There was still cross hatch on the cylinder walls I could see from underneath.

What I am planning to do next:

1) I bought a cylinder leakage tester kit to see if everything is tight in the cylinders/heads. This should hopefully tell me if I have ring or valve problems (piston slap or valve seats?) If this is normal
2) I will mic the cam lobes to make sure they are within spec
3) Can this possibly be anything to do with the reluctor ring? (Would that not tick at engine RPM if it was rubbing somehow?) How can I check this?
4) Pull the engine and tear it apart - look at the heads, main bearings, connecting rods, pistons.... I can't do much more with the engine in the truck. I could pull the heads, but at this point I think I will just rebuild the engine.

If it was a valve guide would the valve seal not be bad and should I not see that in the spark plug condition?
Can it have anything to do with torque converter or bearings (I don't think so since it does this in park and does not change if I put it in gear)
Can the starter bendix somehow be causing this? (doubtful)
Does this sound like it could be a main bearing issue? I don't think so but perhaps... Would a main bearing sound better at 1500 RPM? No oil pressure problems?
Anything else I have not considered?

Also, if anyone has a line on new connecting rod bolts... They are torque to yield but seem to be discontinued from Mopar with no after market replacements...

Thanks very much. I appreciate greatly any insights anyone can provide.
 

Burla

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It's not a hemi but we just had a guy replace his cam and lifters because of a tick, and there was little reason to and the tick is still there. We have an 80% success rate at killing hemi tick with a lubrication strategy, a 50% using a different one. Use either of those with a royal purple filter, there is a specific reason for that exact combo. The success rate is against hemi tick, don't know about your engine. But no way would I pull an engine and expect that to fix a tick, it might, but it might not as well. No kidding we had a guy put a new engine in and it ticked. I'd get a used oil analysis and see what kind of wear is going on before even thinking about that one, I like blackstone for that.

You see the valves with the engine on? Can you isolate the noise?


.
 
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Rob G B

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Thanks Burla. I agree; I do not want to pull the engine either, but based on what I have already done, the tick is coming from somewhere. It is not the timing chain, lash adjusters, rocker arms, connecting rods, or exhaust manifolds. I have tried oil treatments, and this would only work on freeing up stuck lifters, which were all replaced. This engine is clean.

I am trying to determine if this is a main bearing or something like piston slap, and the only way to check and fix those is by pulling the engine apart. Pulling an engine will not fix a tick, but replacing worn parts and fixing the root cause will. If I pull the engine and examine the parts, I can fix the root cause of the problem.

I did not do an oil analysis but there did not appear to be any metal in the oil.

So I am trying to diagnose the tick and repair the problem. I am all for trying a lubrication strategy first. How long does it take for that to actually fix the problem? Does in need to be run for a certain number of miles? Does this actually fix the root cause or just fix the symptom? My concern is if it is a main bearing, I could destroy the engine if I continue to run it.

Thanks for the response. I truly do appreciate any input.
 
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jws123

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I have worked on a TON of 4.7s I know these inside out I know what sounds they make hate to say it but it sounds like 1 rod bearing you already did the other common things such as timing chains and lash adjusters. These are really good engines if taken care of and often out live hemis believe it or not.
 
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Burla

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oh I believe it.
 
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Rob G B

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I looked at all the rod bearings too. They looked brand new.
 

jws123

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I looked at all the rod bearings too. They looked brand new.
That is surprising based on the noise are you sure the hydraulic chain Tensioners are extended for timing chains? I have had bad ones right out the box before Also does it run Rough at all?
 
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Rob G B

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That is surprising based on the noise are you sure the hydraulic chain Tensioners are extended for timing chains? I have had bad ones right out the box before Also does it run Rough at all?
The rod bearings looked excellent, and again, I plasti-gauged all of them anyway and they were all in the .0015 range (if memory serves), but anyway, within tolerance for sure.

Could this possibly be a main bearing? Would it make that sound? I could not check the mains because this is a bed plate engine. If I’m going that deep I will pull the engine to check. That’s what I’m trying to figure out (if I should or if I need to).

When I put the timing chains in, the tensioners all loaded up when I pulled the pins. I had the timing cover on when I ran it so I don’t know what happened from that point but the main chain was tight from the start and the cam chains were tight at the cam sprockets.

The engine idles smoothly with no misses. When it is under load it does seem to surge slightly even if the gas pedal is held constant. Almost under powered.
 

Sherman Bird

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Thanks Burla. I agree; I do not want to pull the engine either, but based on what I have already done, the tick is coming from somewhere. It is not the timing chain, lash adjusters, rocker arms, connecting rods, or exhaust manifolds. I have tried oil treatments, and this would only work on freeing up stuck lifters, which were all replaced. This engine is clean.

I am trying to determine if this is a main bearing or something like piston slap, and the only way to check and fix those is by pulling the engine apart. Pulling an engine will not fix a tick, but replacing worn parts and fixing the root cause will. If I pull the engine and examine the parts, I can fix the root cause of the problem.

I did not do an oil analysis but there did not appear to be any metal in the oil.

So I am trying to diagnose the tick and repair the problem. I am all for trying a lubrication strategy first. How long does it take for that to actually fix the problem? Does in need to be run for a certain number of miles? Does this actually fix the root cause or just fix the symptom? My concern is if it is a main bearing, I could destroy the engine if I continue to run it.

Thanks for the response. I truly do appreciate any input.
"It is not the timing chain"..... there are 3 timing chains, tensioners on them all, the 2 cam chains have hydraulic, the lower chain has a spring loaded tensioner. There are lots of opportunities for problems to exist in the front area. Those engines have a nasty proclivity to drop valve seats. The secondary sign is a roller rocker arm lying in the head area, having fallen out of it's place, or in place with a lot of lash clearance. Good luck!
 
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Rob G B

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I replaced all the lash adjusters and rocker arms, but the old ones did not look bad. It could be a bad valve or seat but a leak down test shows everything is tight so it does not appear to be in the heads. I replaced all three timing chains, all three tensioners, guides and gears. It could be bad new parts potentially, but the chains are tight now.

The engine is coming out this weekend and I bought a used 2013 engine with 50k km less because I have run out of time. I will take the engine apart later to figure out what it is but I’m pretty convinced it is a main bearing.
 

Dodge trucker

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You're talking "km" which is a little foreign to me so I'm guessing you're in Canada?
I bought a 12 with a 4.7 a month ago, 93k miles.
I've put ~850 miles onto it so far.
I have noticed a tick since day 1 especially when cold overnight or after sitting all day at work that I don't notice much in the cab. As it warms up it goes away within a few minutes but not entirely. Only notice it when standing outside of the truck, ever.
Oil was changed before I got it at the stealership where I bought it, bit it was bought from a GM/Nissan combo franchise, not a Chrysler/dodge one. So I don't know what oil they put in. But I'm gonna wait and change it going off of when they just did it to do my 1st one. It's clean and full.
BUT I noticed something today with it. Yesterday I put new plugs (all 16) in it and new new wires and coil boots. I left it in my garage overnight and today I put the new belt and tensioner that I'd bought for it, on. I hadn't started the engine between doing the plugs and changing the belt and tensioner. But after I had all that done, I started it and the tick seemed to have diminished. It had the original belt and tensioner on it that I took off. Though the plugs had been done before, the wires and boots were original. Not that boots and wires would contribute to an engine tick. I'm guessing that the changing of the belt and tensioner is more likely to have contributed to the tick. I did have to crank the new tensioner farther(by quite a bit) to get the new belt on than I had to, to crank the old tensioner to get the old belt off /and as oxidized as that old tensioner body was I'm quite sure it has never been replaced before today.
 
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Rob G B

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Yes, I am in Canada. I’m glad that helped your tick. In my case I ran the engine with none of the accessories and the tick was still there, so it was definitely nothing on the belt. Changed the lash adjusters and rocker arms, timing chain set, both exhaust manifolds and plastigauged the connecting rods and it was all well within spec and the journals looked brand new. Did a leak down test and everything was normal. So I think it was a main bearing, but I have not torn the engine apart yet. We swapped the engine for a used one that was a year newer with 50K less km, and haven’t looked back.

When we took the engine out we took the intake off and the old engine looked like it had been overheated (peeling paint on the engine under the intake) but the heads looked brand new compared to the newer engine. There was paint writing on the components so the old engine had been rebuilt before.

I was going to tear it apart but I think I will sell it as is. These are hard to come by in Canada so the parts alone should make the engine worth $1000 as is.
 

Dodge trucker

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Anyone you know have a vehicle with a 4.7?
An engine that you can listen to and compare how it sounds vs how yours sounds?
Im not convinced it's a main or a rod bearing, your oil pressure would certainly be low if it was excess clearance in either.
 
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Rob G B

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It definitely was not rod bearings. I plastigauged all of them in the truck. When I was under there I moved all of the pistons and at least from my vantage point the wrist pins were not the problem. I inspected the flywheel in the truck and when the engine came out and it was perfect.

Based on everything I did what else can it be but a main bearing? And the sound was way too solid and mechanical to be a tick. I would describe it as a metallic ping after listening to other people describe ticks.

I agree that there should be oil pressure problems if it was a main bearing but sometimes engines don’t do what we think they should. By process of elimination I think it was a main. If I ever rip the engine apart then I will know for sure.

So of you think it’s something else, what is your guess?
 

Marmay

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It's not a hemi but we just had a guy replace his cam and lifters because of a tick, and there was little reason to and the tick is still there. We have an 80% success rate at killing hemi tick with a lubrication strategy, a 50% using a different one. Use either of those with a royal purple filter, there is a specific reason for that exact combo. The success rate is against hemi tick, don't know about your engine. But no way would I pull an engine and expect that to fix a tick, it might, but it might not as well. No kidding we had a guy put a new engine in and it ticked. I'd get a used oil analysis and see what kind of wear is going on before even thinking about that one, I like blackstone for that.

You see the valves with the engine on? Can you isolate the
It's not a hemi but we just had a guy replace his cam and lifters because of a tick, and there was little reason to and the tick is still there. We have an 80% success rate at killing hemi tick with a lubrication strategy, a 50% using a different one. Use either of those with a royal purple filter, there is a specific reason for that exact combo. The success rate is against hemi tick, don't know about your engine. But no way would I pull an engine and expect that to fix a tick, it might, but it might not as well. No kidding we had a guy put a new engine in and it ticked. I'd get a used oil analysis and see what kind of wear is going on before even thinking about that one, I like blackstone for that.

You see the valves with the engine on? Can you isolate the noise?


.
Put the order for the lubegard biotech nov 27 and they come last week,over 2 months lol
 

AkNoad2

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Just throwing this out there but is it possible that it could be a fuel injector, I've heard several stories about fuel injectors causing a tick on these Mopar engines. A guy I work with has a Ram 3500 diesel and he's got a ticking fuel injector on his truck.

As a side note, I had an 04 Dodge Ram 1500 with the 4.7 and I had quite a bit of trouble with it after owning it for a couple of years, rocker arm falling off was the main issue and these engines are notorious for sludge build up. I ran some Seafoam through the brake booster into the engine and it did a good job of cleaning it.
 

reek

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Just throwing this out there but is it possible that it could be a fuel injector, I've heard several stories about fuel injectors causing a tick on these Mopar engines. A guy I work with has a Ram 3500 diesel and he's got a ticking fuel injector on his truck.

As a side note, I had an 04 Dodge Ram 1500 with the 4.7 and I had quite a bit of trouble with it after owning it for a couple of years, rocker arm falling off was the main issue and these engines are notorious for sludge build up. I ran some Seafoam through the brake booster into the engine and it did a good job of cleaning it.
I've gone round and round pulling out my hair in the past only to find at the end, it was a fuel injector ticking away. between that and a loose, exhaust manifold bolt tick, I'm surprised I have any hair left.
 

Roy the Fixer

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Ok, back to basics for a minute: is the tick load sensitive? If so, it may well be a small exhaust leak, probably at a manifold where it bolts to the head. If it is there all the time, at idle, etc., yes I would check the valve train. But if it gets loud under load, go after the exhaust leak idea. I had a 2012 Ram with a hemi that did exactly that, and the dealer wanted to replace the camshaft and lifters! I fixed it for the price of a set of exhaust manifold gaskets and new bolts.
 

Roy the Fixer

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Ok, back to basics for a minute: is the tick load sensitive? If so, it may well be a small exhaust leak, probably at a manifold where it bolts to the head. If it is there all the time, at idle, etc., yes I would check the valve train. But if it gets loud under load, go after the exhaust leak idea. I had a 2012 Ram with a hemi that did exactly that, and the dealer wanted to replace the camshaft and lifters! I fixed it for the price of a set of exhaust manifold gaskets and new bolts.
 

Kdusen

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Did you ever determine what the problem was? I have a 2010 4.7 that sounds identical to your problem. I mean verbatim. I was sure I was going to find rod bearing issues but when I inspected them they were all perfect. I haven’t inspected the timing components , it just sounds too loud and metallic to me.
 
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