Another lifter failure, not where I expected.

[ScubaSteve42]

2012 Ram 1500, Vararam Intake, Magnaflow exhaust, unknown tuner (previous owner).

I've been nervously waiting for the day that the lifter failure would come, but finding some solace in the fact that it seemed more prevalent in 2011's. Add that with an intermittent CEL over the last year or so pointing to an fuel evap sensor (not sure if that is the right name... something about air leaking from the fuel tank or cap).

Then I had a light that wouldn't turn off after a new tank of gas... P0306. Took it into the shop, hoping for plugs, coil, or injector failure... nope. Cylinder 6 was holding 50-60 psi, while I think the others were around 110. No word on the cam yet, but the mechanic wants to replace both head gaskets, timing cover gasket, machine the heads, and replace both lifters on the right side. $3,119.

Quote seems high, but I'll shop around.

My question stems from this thread https://www.chargerforums.com/threads/firing-order-of-5-7-hemi.132390/

Firing order for the 5.7 is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 and w/ MDS 2-3-5-8. If 1, 4, 6, and 7 are deactivated, does it makes sense that the #6 would fail? Is it BECAUSE it is deactivated?

Last question, is it bad to hope for a worn cam so I can justify dropping cash on a new one? Any recommendations?

 

[guru1ofatl]

There is no way in hell I would open the engine up to only replace two lifters. The likelihood of another failure after the repair is too risky IMO.

The lobes that fail seem to be random and not tied to the MDS lifters. As a matter of fact, this failure has been encountered on engines without MDS and sometimes across multiple lobes.
Most of what I have seen points to a failure of the needle bearings in the roller itself. There is strong evidence that engine oil and intervals can impact this.

I plan on using the potential of this failure as justification of a camshaft upgrade.

 

[2K10HemiRam]

I'd say it's good to hope for that, lol. But that's because my train of thought is that since it's a 2012, I'm assuming she's got some high miles...I'd go ahead and replace all the lifters and the cam especially seeing all these lifters going bad and wearing out the cam causing misfires. So precaution is my justification for a new cam at that point, you're already in there, might as well do your best to make sure you don't have to go back in there any time soon.

I don't have have any recommendations however, I haven't really looked down this avenue yet.

 

[RLJ10X]

I plan on my 11 having a cam failure. I have money set aside for it already. If it doesn’t, bonus.

I’m already planning on getting the milder of the two cams that Moe’s sell. Ought to be fun.

I figure if I buy lifters now, the damn thing will never break!

BTW, what does a set of roller lifters for our trucks cost?

 

[crackerjack1957]

Hellcat lifters are $460

https://www.modernmusclextreme.com/p-282-hellcat-hemi-lifters-by-mopar-set-of-16.aspx

 

[indept]

My question, why machine the heads?
Was the 50-60psi a compression test or cylinder leakage? If it's compression that points to an intake valve not opening correctly, if it's a leakage test then that could be warpage (unlikely unless you overheated) but most likely a leaky valve. When you said machine, did you mean resurface them or just do the valve seats & guides?

 

[RLJ10X]

Thanks, CJ.

$460 Hell Cat Lifters
$800 Moe's Cam

That's not bad at all. I assume there's gaskets, an oil change and a few other miscellaneous items. I'd have to pay a shop to do the work, tho.

New cam would be a whole lot more fun than an extended warranty!

 

[crackerjack1957]

It gets expensive but all the labor is already paid just to replace cam & lifters so might as well add new oil pump, water pump, timing chain, cam phaser/sprockets, tensioner.
Then there is push rods, valve springs, new stretch bolts, oil, filter, coolant & all the gaskets.
Around $3k for the above.

Then there is the head work.....valve & seat grind.....guide/seals
About $450

Then if you pay shop/tech that knows what the hell they are doing for the labor
It's quoted around 24 hours @ $130 per hour
Another $3k +

Now ya need a tune $175 for cam upgrade if you already have tune & programmer.
More if ya don't or you could spend around $700 for a dyno tune

Don't forget your headers now if ya don't already have.
At least they are installed at the same time so no labor charge on headers....LoL

 

[tjfdesmo]

I would NEVER do this job without a new cam and all lifters. That is insane.

 

[16RamHemi]

It gets expensive but all the labor is already paid just to replace cam & lifters so might as well add new oil pump, water pump, timing chain, cam phaser/sprockets, tensioner.
Then there is push rods, valve springs, new stretch bolts, oil, filter, coolant & all the gaskets.
Around $3k for the above.

Then there is the head work.....valve & seat grind.....guide/seals
About $450

Then if you pay shop/tech that knows what the hell they are doing for the labor
It's quoted around 24 hours @ $130 per hour
Another $3k +

Now ya need a tune $175 for cam upgrade if you already have tune & programmer.
More if ya don't or you could spend around $700 for a dyno tune

Don't forget your headers now if ya don't already have.
At least they are installed at the same time so no labor charge on headers....LoL

so over $6k for all that? parts and labor?

 

[crackerjack1957]

so over $6k for all that? parts and labor?

Pretty much unless you have a friend that can do labor.

 

[16RamHemi]

Pretty much unless you have a friend that can do labor.

and i do not. at that point it would be time to trade in to the dealer (like one that says the tick is normal).

 

[chrisbh17]

and i do not. at that point it would be time to trade in to the dealer (like one that says the tick is normal).

If you do that please let us know how it turns out! Ive always wondered what a dealer would say if they first said "normal characteristic" then offered a lower trade in value because of a "normal characteristic".

 

[16RamHemi]

If you do that please let us know how it turns out! Ive always wondered what a dealer would say if they first said "normal characteristic" then offered a lower trade in value because of a "normal characteristic".

Dont get me wrong, there are some good dealers out there. But i have absolutely no confidence in the ones around me. I was left high and dry with my local ram dealer trying to get into my 3rd ram from them (my wife has leased 2 honda crvs from them, my grandparents purchased 2 trucks from them and my mom has purchased 2 as well). they could care less about the customer. anyway....like trade in values in general, they are all about themselves. they will do whats in their best interest. They will tell you its normal when its on their dime and tell you its catastrophic if you need to trade in.

Time will tell with these issues. Hopefully, for all of us, we get the use we need out of them and are in a good enough spot to fix or get a new one.

 

[ScubaSteve42]

thanks for all the replies. I agree that if I go in there, all the lifters need to go.

As for the heads, mechanic said he was sending them to the machine shop... nothing more about why.

Called another shop referred to me by a Dodge Master Tech...

"Do you like your truck?"

"Yeah?"​

"Best bet is an engine swap."

"What? Why? What if I don't like it that much?"​

"Getting in there and repairing cam and lifters could work, or you could end up with another failure of some kind. New engine has a warranty."

"So, what's the other option?"​

"new truck..."

Right now I'm waffling between a new cam and lifters (+ spring, + tune), or a reman engine from MMX or ShopHemi. Maybe the 6.4? If I stick with the 5.7, the cost of upgrading the cam plus parts, tune, and labor comes pretty damn close.

Any drawbacks to a new engine with a trans and suspension that have 80k miles?

 

[RLJ10X]

^What he told you flies in the face of what a lot of guys on this forum have done. Guys here do the cam swap an have no problems for a long time.

Tough call, for sure. I’m going to have to check labor prices in my area, for a cam and lifter swap. Maybe I’d want to consider other opinions.

 

[indept]

If both costs are close go with the reman engine, that way you start with 0 miles on everything versus new top end and 80k lower end

 

[ScubaSteve42]

I haven't been able to find any threads on it, but have there been many "success stories" of folks just replacing lifters and swapping cams? Doesn't seem like many do any head work?

 

[chrisbh17]

I haven't been able to find any threads on it, but have there been many "success stories" of folks just replacing lifters and swapping cams? Doesn't seem like many do any head work?

I think at least a few people have had success that way.

BUT the "issue" is that the heads have to come off anyway, to get to the lifters, so head work at that point is a minor investment compared to the rest of the job. If a dealer is doing it (especially under warranty), of course there will be no extra put into anything, but if someone was DIY-ing it or had a trusted shop working on it, it might be a good idea to get the heads checked or improved upon somehow, while they are already off.

 

[ScubaSteve42]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Looking at the two routes I would take now I can:

1. Upgrade the cam, new lifters, tuner with MDS delete and head work for about $5-6k

2. Swap the engine, right now looking like $7-8k (MMX or PowerTrain 5.7 reman)