Another MDS thread Yes I searched

[chris22888]

Hello Everyone. I purchased a 2016 Ram 1500 that has an intake lifter on the number 3 cylinder that has gone ghost. I pulled the valve cover and could instantly tell its stuck very slight movement. So I am running into a point of just so many options that I have almost paralyzed myself by analysis at this point.

I consider myself above average when it comes to turning wrenches, but mainly work on Fords before. I had several GT500s and did the supercharger swap, etc., have remote tuned them, and back in 2020, my brother passed in a car accident in our bulit 2015 mustang with a FFRE sleeved block and 88/88 turbo. After that, I pulled the entire driveline, gauge cluster, fuel system, steering wheel, and everything out of the car and put it in another 2015. This was a manual/auto swap as well. At that point, I still had my brother's shop because I was in the process of shutting it down. Now, I got all the tools, but in my home garage, which is not huge. I also had more helping hands then because everyone was coming around from the drag racing world still at that point so if I needed help lining up motor mounts etc I could get it. Now it's 5.5 years later and not a lot of helping hands anymore.

So here is where I am at. I know for sure this needs cam and lifters. I have researched it to death, and I am not convinced MDS is the issue the truck as 200k on it and still has MDS I see tons of others as well. My opinion is that we don't hear from all the people who have had a lifter issue while trucks are just out there running. I believe poor maintenance, combined with long idling time, is probably the main issue, along with the quality of the parts at the time. With that being said I don't need MDS my drive to work is short about a mile gas mileage is no huge and honestly I just wanted a truck to throw my bike in the back when I go to ride trails. So with that being said, what's the best kit for both deleting MDS and keeping it? Also, since I am at 200k, doing an oil pump seems smart and timing chain, etc. If I keep MDS it seems it be smart to do the high flow and use the stock bypass spring since I wont be able to just turn the idle up in the tune. If I get rid of MDS I don't think the high flow would hurt any thing but I think turning up the idle makes more sense.

Additionally, for those of you who have done this job on your own, was there any place where you just absolutely needed a second set of hands, or can one person do this job pretty easily? I mean, I'm basically riding solo, I could get my wife to hold a light thats about it. If you were in my shoes, would you do MDS delete or go back OEM to avoid the tune?

 

[Mojo88]

Talk to this guy: @Daniel from Texas He did his in one day, he also says "it's not hard". There are some things you need to check before you begin, to determine possible engine damage beyond just cam/lifters.

If it was me, I'd be ordering a new crate motor, simply matching what's there now. Yeah, probably cost twice as much money, but be a lot easier IMHO. Also no tweaking or tuning or other messing around with surprises.

Good luck with it.

 

[Burla]

Latest cam thread, did you see that one? Pretty detailed day to day.

 

[chris22888]

Talk to this guy: @Daniel from Texas He did his in one day, he also says "it's not hard". There are some things you need to check before you begin, to determine possible engine damage beyond just cam/lifters.

If it was me, I'd be ordering a new crate motor, simply matching what's there now. Yeah, probably cost twice as much money, but be a lot easier IMHO. Also no tweaking or tuning or other messing around with surprises.

Good luck with it.

I thought about going that route, but not having an extra hand makes pulling the engine harder. Also, you have to stop somewhere on repairs. I know the lower end has miles on it, but even with the truck missing, it's running pretty strong. If I pull the motor, I could make a case to replace the torque converter at the same time as well, and engine mounts, etc., and the list could go on, and on. While you're that far, you could rebuild the transmission, etc. If I had help, I would be more inclined to swap the engine, but I just don't see any way I am getting that engine out and back in by myself. I can see pulling the heads solo from everything I watched. I was quoted 5000-6000 to pull and reman the engine, but it's from a shop I am not familiar with, and they offer a 90-day warranty. I have been burned in the past, having others do my work, and ended up having to redo it myself. To quote Tommy boy that Warranty on the box just makes a man feel good inside but its only worth as much as the person that is writing it.

 

[chris22888]

Latest cam thread, did you see that one? Pretty detailed day to day.

That is the post that made me think this was not something I needed to attempt alone. I certainly can't have it torn apart for that long. It probably drive me crazy to have it torn down and not back together on the same weekend and I end up working on it every night after work and lose sleep. I was quoted 4k to do the oil pump, and MDS delete with tune parts and everything, thinking that it may just be worth the labor charge for my sanity. That seems to be standard around here either using OEM hell cat lifters and OEM cam or texas speeds kit.

 

[EdGs]

That is the post that made me think this was not something I needed to attempt alone. I certainly can't have it torn apart for that long. It probably drive me crazy to have it torn down and not back together on the same weekend and I end up working on it every night after work and lose sleep. I was quoted 4k to do the oil pump, and MDS delete with tune parts and everything, thinking that it may just be worth the labor charge for my sanity. That seems to be standard around here either using OEM hell cat lifters and OEM cam or texas speeds kit.

Don't let my thread scare you. There's alot of procrastination in there, and I had money issues, and issues with finding other stuff that needed replacing. Plus, practically all my work was done on the weekends, and I started later as well as had a few weekends that I couldn't work on it.

If I had it to do all over again, I probably could do it over a couple weekends.

It was my first major Hemi repair, and only the 2nd time ever being inside an engine by myself. I had work and family things going on as well.

I did not have all the tools I needed, and I ordered as I went. Lots of distractions, too. I was nervous AF, and had lots of questions. Alot of my posts in that thread were made as I was working on her. Waiting for responses, plus other phone calls, etc

The members here steered me right. I spent a bunch, too. I replaced some stuff I might not have had to, and I went OE with everything inside I replaced. I didn't want to do it twice. Also kept my truck stock. On 2015 and up, the PCM is locked, and you will need an unlocked PCM and a tune to delete the MDS.

The Wife and a few members here suggested I should've bought a crate engine, but I was more nervous doing that, especially since I am a chronic worrier.....lol.

Time will tell if my repairs hold up, I'm shooting for at least anothe 100k miles from her.

The members here are top-notch, really helpful.

I wish you the best on your repair, whichever path you choose, fix or new engine.

If you do anything, pull your intake and VVT solenoid and see how much metal is on the screens. If it's a little, you might be good with repairing. Alot, and engine might be better. Some here have even repaired them even with finding lots of metal on the screens.

 

[Mojo88]

That is the post that made me think this was not something I needed to attempt alone. I certainly can't have it torn apart for that long. It probably drive me crazy to have it torn down and not back together on the same weekend and I end up working on it every night after work and lose sleep. I was quoted 4k to do the oil pump, and MDS delete with tune parts and everything, thinking that it may just be worth the labor charge for my sanity. That seems to be standard around here either using OEM hell cat lifters and OEM cam or texas speeds kit.

The $4k number doesn't sound too bad at all, so long as it's a good shop with experience doing this job.

RE: the cam selection..... I've been a hot rodder, muscle car guy for many years (over 50, haha). Me and my buddies were swapping cams all the time in the 'good ole days', all big-block Chevy motors for me. One thing I learned REAL quick.... a bigger cam doesn't always mean more power. In fact, it often kills power, most especially on the low end. But in the truck world, we need every last ft/lb of low end torque we can get. Thus I would recommend stock cam, or if you use aftermarket cam, be sure to examine dyno chart torque numbers in low to mid-range rpm's. You don't want to get all excited about extra high-rpm 20hp with a new cam (which may require headers and expensive tuning for that 20hp), only to find a noticeable lack of pep for 99.9% of your driving. JMHO

 

[EdGs]

If you decide to repair, DO NOT buy parts from Ebay or Amazon. Counterfeits abound.

An OE cam will run $500 and a set of OE MDS lifters will set you back about $850. Just to buy the parts. Add in head gaskets, bolts, other worn components, and it adds up quick. Just be aware of that.

I ended up having to replace all my valves and rocker arms due to wear. I replaced pushrods and valve springs due to having 200k miles. New MDS solenoids and VVT solenoid. Hellcat oil pump with my stock relief spring. Could I have reused most of that stuff? Sure. Would that old stuff have lasted? I didn't want to chance it.

The only internal things I didn't replace were the pistons and rings, and the cam, crank, and rod bearings.

Still on my original water pump, knock on wood.

 

[tron67j]

You can hit up Benny at All Mopar Parts in out vendor section, he might be able to get you a discount on OEM parts.

 

[HemiLonestar]

Hello Everyone. I purchased a 2016 Ram 1500 that has an intake lifter on the number 3 cylinder that has gone ghost. I pulled the valve cover and could instantly tell its stuck very slight movement. So I am running into a point of just so many options that I have almost paralyzed myself by analysis at this point.

I consider myself above average when it comes to turning wrenches, but mainly work on Fords before. I had several GT500s and did the supercharger swap, etc., have remote tuned them, and back in 2020, my brother passed in a car accident in our bulit 2015 mustang with a FFRE sleeved block and 88/88 turbo. After that, I pulled the entire driveline, gauge cluster, fuel system, steering wheel, and everything out of the car and put it in another 2015. This was a manual/auto swap as well. At that point, I still had my brother's shop because I was in the process of shutting it down. Now, I got all the tools, but in my home garage, which is not huge. I also had more helping hands then because everyone was coming around from the drag racing world still at that point so if I needed help lining up motor mounts etc I could get it. Now it's 5.5 years later and not a lot of helping hands anymore.

So here is where I am at. I know for sure this needs cam and lifters. I have researched it to death, and I am not convinced MDS is the issue the truck as 200k on it and still has MDS I see tons of others as well. My opinion is that we don't hear from all the people who have had a lifter issue while trucks are just out there running. I believe poor maintenance, combined with long idling time, is probably the main issue, along with the quality of the parts at the time. With that being said I don't need MDS my drive to work is short about a mile gas mileage is no huge and honestly I just wanted a truck to throw my bike in the back when I go to ride trails. So with that being said, what's the best kit for both deleting MDS and keeping it? Also, since I am at 200k, doing an oil pump seems smart and timing chain, etc. If I keep MDS it seems it be smart to do the high flow and use the stock bypass spring since I wont be able to just turn the idle up in the tune. If I get rid of MDS I don't think the high flow would hurt any thing but I think turning up the idle makes more sense.

Additionally, for those of you who have done this job on your own, was there any place where you just absolutely needed a second set of hands, or can one person do this job pretty easily? I mean, I'm basically riding solo, I could get my wife to hold a light thats about it. If you were in my shoes, would you do MDS delete or go back OEM to avoid the tune?

You keep mentioning MDS throughout this.....with a problem on cylinder 3. You DO realize that MDS is only on cylinders 1, 4, 6 & 7, right.......?

 

[EdGs]

You keep mentioning MDS throughout this.....with a problem on cylinder 3. You DO realize that MDS is only on cylinders 1, 4, 6 & 7, right.......?

I might be wrong, but it seems like most of the cam/lifter failures I've read about are from non-MDS cylinders?

Sure seems like it.

Mine was cylinder 5, a non-MDS cylinder.

 

[HemiLonestar]

They seem to be fairly well spread across them from what I've seen. Too many people do too much internet reading and YouTube watching and thinks MDS is the smoking gun. If MDS were the problem, literally millions of engines dating back to 2004 (early 2005 model year 300 & Magnum 5.7's) would have self destructed. Cheap, substandard lifters are cheap, substandard lifters.

 

[Mojo88]

They seem to be fairly well spread across them from what I've seen. Too many people do too much internet reading and YouTube watching and thinks MDS is the smoking gun. If MDS were the problem, literally millions of engines dating back to 2004 (early 2005 model year 300 & Magnum 5.7's) would have self destructed. Cheap, substandard lifters are cheap, substandard lifters.

It could indeed be mostly cheap lifters, but I've watched a few of the vids posted by @Wild one and it kinda looks like an oil supply issue as well, which may simply exacerbate any cheap lifter issues.

Oh well, all the major brands seem to be having plenty of engine problems, which is a shame...

 

[Wild one]

That is the post that made me think this was not something I needed to attempt alone. I certainly can't have it torn apart for that long. It probably drive me crazy to have it torn down and not back together on the same weekend and I end up working on it every night after work and lose sleep. I was quoted 4k to do the oil pump, and MDS delete with tune parts and everything, thinking that it may just be worth the labor charge for my sanity. That seems to be standard around here either using OEM hell cat lifters and OEM cam or texas speeds kit.

Not sure where you got the idea of Texas Speeds kits as being a "Standard" around here.If anything MMX/Moes or FRP would be more the "standard" if you're going aftermarket then Texas Speed.
You couldn't give me a Texas Speed cam kit,not when you have outfits like MMX/Moes /FRP /SDC/Scoogin Dickey that specialize in the Hemi

 

[Xsen]

I've pulled the HEMI out of 1500 about three times now, and I'd say that installation would go better if you have someone to help you, but is also possible on your own, if you take your time and preferably do it on a 4-post lift, so that you could get under the truck easily to adjust the jack, that you're going to place under the tranny, and verify the alignment. There's a video somewhere on youtube where a guy is doing the engine install on a lifted white ram 1500.

Working with the engine that is mounted to the stand VS working in the engine bay is so much faster and lets you focus on proper assembly routine rather than frustrate over accesssing various bolts, etc.

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

@chris22888

5.7L HEMI NON-MDS Truck Engine Long Block

5.7L HEMI NON-MDS Truck Engine Long Block

www.modernmusclextreme.com

 

[Mojo88]

@chris22888

5.7L HEMI NON-MDS Truck Engine Long Block

5.7L HEMI NON-MDS Truck Engine Long Block

www.modernmusclextreme.com

Something like this ^^^ is virtually a no-brainer! You could easily spend that much just doing a basic overhaul yourself.

I like this option they offer: "Add +30HP!!! Upgrade to 5.7 HEMI No Tune Required NON MDS Camshaft , Add $619.95" But I'd check carefully to make sure this cam didn't hurt the low-end torque numbers at all.

 

[EdGs]

My parts list:

2015 Ram 1500 SLT 201,192 miles

Note: BONE STOCK REPAIR WITH MDS

I spent close to $6k between all these parts, assorted tools and supplies, plus tax, and shipping, etc.

I'm sure I didn't need every single part, but didn't want to leave anything to chance while I had her apart.




I left my 3-way valve in place and electrically hooked up. Unhooked all hoses from it and blew out the lines. Ordered and installed a set of heater hoses for a later year Ram without the 3-way valve. It said in the fitment chart that it would fit a 2015 SLT with a 5.7 Hemi.

I replaced the pressure relief spring in the Hellcat oil pump with the relief spring from my original oil pump.

 

[Dusty]

A few comments.

At 200K I wouldn't worry about the lower end on a 5.7, especially if your use is confined to minimal. I've seen some 5.7s with over 300K and still maintaining good oil pressure. Note the oil pressure (with the specified oil) now and if it's over 29 at hot idle the lower end should be good.

Check the MDS solenoid screens for debris. If there's a lot you'd be better off with a new long block.

Several have already commented, but I would recommend the use of OEM parts only. The stories are legend around here with aftermarket lifter failures after rebuild.

When you're pulling the heads don't be surprised on discovering broken exhaust manifold studs. You'll have an opportunity to mill the exhaust manifold flat. Also, I'd use an OEM head gasket.

You might find yourself looking at other parts that are questionable (timing chains and guides, water pump, etc.) , which might tempt you into replacing them.

Do it right the first time and avoid doing it all over again.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 145554 miles.

 

[Xsen]

I left my 3-way valve in place and electrically hooked up. Unhooked all hoses from it and blew out the lines. Ordered and installed a set of heater hoses for a later year Ram without the 3-way valve. It said in the fitment chart that it would fit a 2015 SLT with a 5.7 Hemi.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but what did you do with the transmission heating lines after removing the 3-way valve? As far as I understand connecting the heater hose to the water pump outlet would leave the tranny without any heating.

Maybe it's not that of an issue in FL though.