audio system review before I get started

[charonblk07]

So I've been heartbroken watching Brad build his systems while I've been sitting at work for the past 6 weeks because I have so much sitting at home just waiting for me to install. But I'm home in 7 days and plan to get started shortly after I get back, luckily I have 2 weeks off to do most of the work, less if my wife keeps making plans for us to do stuff during the Calgary Stampede.

He's the plans for my build. I know many people aren't fans of JL gear, but I have most of it left over from my last truck, so I'm reusing a lot of it with a few new items to bring it up to a new level. I'm not an SPL guy, and being half deaf in one ear kinda kills the SQ side of things, so I always aim for a happy medium, but it needs to be balanced.

Processing will be a MS-8 fed from my old Pioneer AVH-4200 2-din headunit, but I'm debating switching this up for a 1-din audio-only unit since I never used the DVD features on the old one. Hell, I'm even thinking about just picking up an RBZ and going from there since the MS-8 will sum very well from the factory headunit.

Amps are 2x JL HD 900/5. All front speakers are going to be running bridged.

2x JL w6v3 woofers in a net audio under seat sealed box (couldn't beat the ease of this, I couldn't build a better unit anyways)
1x JL ZR800 midbass in front door pods
1x JL ZR525 component in front door pods
1x C5 625 component in rear door

I'm still thinking about the rear fill, I might decide to forgo the rear speakers entierly and just bi-wire the front tweeters separately from the 525 woofer, but I'm not 100% convinced about not having any rears in a quad cab. I didn't care on my last truck since I was running 3 amps on that one and not a whole lot of processing except from the headunit, but since I'm limited to 8 output lines from the MS-8 I'm not sure yet.

Amps are being installed on the back wall in a custom amp rack I'm building and it will be a show piece since I plan to drop the rear seat at shows to display it. Door pods will have rear mounted speakers, visible and backlit lexan cutouts for the crossovers and will be vinyl wrapped with painted inserts. I want to keep the interior the slate grey on this truck instead of the black on my last one, so I'm still looking for vinyl that matches.

I got some of the basic wood working done when I was home last for the back wall and at least the deadening material is taken care of and before the back wall goes on permanently there will be a layer of MLV on it as well to cut down further on road noise potential.


What are people's thought on this before I staart putting foot to ass in a week and I still have some time to make changes to the system and order parts.

 

[Etroze86]

It is for sure going to sound damn good when it's all said and done.

 

[baum]

i havent played with the Jl hd amps are they capable of getting to the frequencies needed for the tweeters if you choose to bi-amp them? this will give you alot better sound than using the crossovers.

 

[charonblk07]

I'm thinking I should be ok, the HDs claim to be capable upto 28kHz, but most documentation/testing on them is to 20kHz. The ZR tweets are listed to 25kHz.

I'm better on the construction side of the audio world, I'm still a novice when it comes to tuning and such but I insist on doing it myself and learning/making mistakes or else I'm just paying someone else to do it and not learning anything; which is why I'm on here asking these questions.

 

[BlkRamRt]

JL audio makes some good equipment...good luck on the build. i put mine on hold for a bit but i think its time to finish it.

 

[BradKnob]

Here we go!! I feel this will pretty damn awesome. Glad i gave you a little inspiration. Hopefully ill be able to return the favor on some of the pointers you gave me.





Nothing wrong with the JL gear. Easily has the potential to sound fantastic...Am i reading that right? You will have an 8" and a 5.25" in each door?



As for rear fill, I do not have any and i do not miss it at all. I did hear the MS-8 just uses it for ambience to give the music a little more dimension which i do kinda wanted to hear how that would sound but not too worried about it. If possible, id recommend runnig the tweeters with the MS-8 crossover instead of the passive crossovers that come with the set. Using the passive crossover, will eliminate the ability of the MS-8 to time align them seperately from the 5.25" which i feel is one of the main purposes of the MS-8. Next, the passive crossovers limit you to one crossover point where the MS-8 givers you nearly unlimited options so you can tweek it to you liking

There is a work around i read about with the MS-8 and limited channels if you decide you want rear fill....

Basically you would calibrate it as if there is no subwoofer. Then you would send all your sub and mid frequencies through one of the MS-8 channesl and use a y splitter to divide them at the amp. Then you would use your amps crossover to send the frequencies to the desired speaker.



Either way, looking forward to the build

 

[charonblk07]

Nothing wrong with the JL gear. Easily has the potential to sound fantastic...Am i reading that right? You will have an 8" and a 5.25" in each door?

Correct, I'm limiting what I'm doing in the doors this time, so I'm building a 3-way system for the door pods; last truck was 1x 8" ZR800 and 2x C5650 components in each door, 3.5s in the dash, 5.25s in the rear and a single downfired 13" in the console. Also, have I mentioned I love building door pods?

I'd debated trying to put my second set of 5.25s in the doors as well, split the signal from the MS-8 at the amp, and power both sets off my 600/4. I just wasn't sure how well the MS-8 would handle that but thought it might not be an issue given that the woofers would both be right next to each other. I'd run both set with the passive crossed tweeters, or I could easily run the tweets bi-amped in parallel and get them up higher. Dammit! stop giving me ideas!

As for rear fill, I do not have any and i do not miss it at all. I did hear the MS-8 just uses it for ambience to give the music a little more dimension which i do kinda wanted to hear how that would sound but not too worried about it. If possible, id recommend runnig the tweeters with the MS-8 crossover instead of the passive crossovers that come with the set. Using the passive crossover, will eliminate the ability of the MS-8 to time align them seperately from the 5.25" which i feel is one of the main purposes of the MS-8. Next, the passive crossovers limit you to one crossover point where the MS-8 givers you nearly unlimited options so you can tweek it to you liking

I hadn't thought about the time aligning since I tend to keep the tweets very close to the woofers so rarely are they further that 10" and don't have any/very little timing difference. Going independent through the MS-8 with them would allow me to fab them into the sail panel or even the a-pillars and ditch the crossover entierly... hmmm. I'm a believer in on-axis tweets, so this could make a difference.

There is a work around i read about with the MS-8 and limited channels if you decide you want rear fill....

Basically you would calibrate it as if there is no subwoofer. Then you would send all your sub and mid frequencies through one of the MS-8 channesl and use a y splitter to divide them at the amp. Then you would use your amps crossover to send the frequencies to the desired speaker.

Either way, looking forward to the build

Do you have a link for this? I haven't seen anything to this effect on DIYMA, but I could have missed it. I'm just wondering how well the MS-8 will account for the midbass frequencies coming from the front and the bass frequencies coming from the rear when it comes to tuning. It sounds similar to what I had been thinking about for my fronts, so it might open up a whole lot more possibilities for me.

 

[BradKnob]

Dammit! stop giving me ideas!

Thats what we do here, welcome to the dark side

I hadn't thought about the time aligning since I tend to keep the tweets very close to the woofers so rarely are they further that 10" and don't have any/very little timing difference. Going independent through the MS-8 with them would allow me to fab them into the sail panel or even the a-pillars and ditch the crossover entierly... hmmm. I'm a believer in on-axis tweets, so this could make a difference.

Time alignment makes sound from the left tweeter and right tweeter to hit your ears at the same time, not the tweeter and woofer. If ur 5.25"s are set to play midrange, MS-8 will time align the tweeters to each other then the woofers to each other

Do you have a link for this? I haven't seen anything to this effect on DIYMA, but I could have missed it. I'm just wondering how well the MS-8 will account for the midbass frequencies coming from the front and the bass frequencies coming from the rear when it comes to tuning. It sounds similar to what I had been thinking about for my fronts, so it might open up a whole lot more possibilities for me.

Its very easy to miss in the million page ms-8 thread on DIYMA... apparently sub bass frequency waves are so long that it is pointless to try to time align them. When u calibrate the MS-8, it send a tone to each speaker seperately so it uses that info to differentiate the sub and midbass frequencies



Car Audio | DiyMobileAudio.com | Car Stereo Forum - View Single Post - JBL MS-8 FAQ

That whole thread is a good read if you have a lot of time on ur hands

 

[charonblk07]

I've been making my way through that thread for a while but it's a LOT of info to take in; a lot is beyond my current level of understanding, even with having to have taken a frequency response and electronics course in engineering.

Good to know about the time aligning, I thought it also did it between different channels, not just common ranges.

I think you have me convinced on the active 3-way up front but I'm wondering if I can truly get all the speakers I want to run off the MS8. I like the idea of the full rears, so might give it a try, the worst that can happen is I take the rears out of the vehicle if I don't like it.

I'm going to take some time tonight and mock up some layouts and see what I like.

 

[BradKnob]

Nice. That thread is quite overwhelming. I started reading it before I had the ms8 and was like wtf I get myself into??


Once it's hooked up right, it makes a lot more sense.

 

[autokraftgt]

Im in....this is gonna be cool!
Let the ms8 process everything
I like the 3-way idea with the 5.25" as a dedicated midrange....very dynamic!
I like JL's ZR speakers...ALOT
I've never had HD amps, but i know they're great!
Rear fill...up to you, I don't miss it at all but that's just me

 

[Power247]

Sounds awesome! Can't wait to see this come together!!!