Best wire size and brand for welding our rusted body panels

[RustyRamFan]

Never welded before but, I just bought a hobart handler 140 mig welder to weld up on my 1991 dodge ram w150. Problem is there are so many choices of wire sizes and brands to choose from! I want the absolute best wire out there for body panels.

I've heard I need .023" wire solid core. But then I hear Lincoln ER70S-6 ( L-56 ) wire is the best. They only go down to .025" Do I use this Lincoln stuff in .025" or one of the wires in .023"?

Which wire size and brand/type/part# do you guys use?

And where do I go to purchase the wire?

I think if I have to search another welding forum my head will explode!

P.S. first I am welding floor pan and rocker on the driver side, and then both rear wheel wells.

 

[bellaireroad]

Congratulations on your new welder.

Are you set up with gas?, you will need it for solid core

You won’t see any difference between 0.23 and .025, size depends on manufacturer

Find a local welding supply, preferably one that is mom and pop, they will have everything you need and can answer all your questions. You may save a few bucks ordering online, but establishing a relationship, and the extra services they provide is well worth the money

Lincoln wire is good, but priced high, and I get just as good results with generic wire from the LWS

You’ll need to make sure that you are running the correct tips for the wire

Sheet metal welding can be tricky, its easy to burn through

Recommend lots of practice before you work on anything important, there may be someone down at LWS that can stand over your shoulder and give you some pointers while you are learning.

Welding is an excellent skill to have
Practice, practice, practice, practice, practice


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[reek]

I'll second the practice practice practice part.

sheet metal is best done with a TIG welder. having said that, my TIG broke down a few years back and new ones being pricey, I kept working with my MIG. I use L-56, 0.025 and C25 gas. now even if you go super slow, move around and do short bursts of welding, the sheet metal WILL warp. it takes a lot of flap discs, dolly hammer work and a bit more filler than I prefer, but it is doable. I've done both of my trucks and a 67 Chevelle with my MIG. probably more than doubled my working time and the number of "F" bombs but still cheaper than a new TIG.

since you're doing floor panels, the warping may not be an issue but with rockers and rear wheel wells, where you can't get a dolly/hammer into, may be and issue. anyway, it's a project and hopefully fun.

you might want to look into some seam sealer as well. I use Dyantron from autozone with good results.

My bulk l-56 wire for my 256 MIG I order on Amazon. My portable 140 mig, I get the "superarc" L-56 stuff from my local welding shop where I get my gas.

have fun.

 

[bellaireroad]

TIG is definitely the way to go for sheet metal, But is an extra jump in skill level.
I have had pretty good luck with using silicon bronze and pure argon on sheet metal

Here is a little 20 gauge box I migged up for an electrical junction, with .025 silicon bronze ... no warp, no keyholes




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[RustyRamFan]

Thanks guys. Also I can only wish my welds will look as good as that!
What kindof wire you using there?

So .023 and .025 basically are the same thing, and I should look for a mom and pop welder place and get some L-56 there.

I do have gas I believe its something called C25.

It's too bad I didn't get tig then but I might as well stick it out with a mig welder for now

Looking at more videos now dang this stuff is so interesting and so complicated

Do I need a hammer to whack warpped metal back into a good shape?

I should use seam sealer and then some form of rustolem or whatever that eastwood stuff is just make sure it ain't gonna rust for a while right?

 

[reek]

Thanks guys. Also I can only wish my welds will look as good as that!
What kindof wire you using there?

So .023 and .025 basically are the same thing, and I should look for a mom and pop welder place and get some L-56 there.

I do have gas I believe its something called C25.

It's too bad I didn't get tig then but I might as well stick it out with a mig welder for now

Looking at more videos now dang this stuff is so interesting and so complicated

Do I need a hammer to whack warpped metal back into a good shape?

I should use seam sealer and then some form of rustolem or whatever that eastwood stuff is just make sure it ain't gonna rust for a while right?

C25 is pretty standard shielding gas. just play with flow rate avoid breezy/windy areas. You can hit the high spots with a body work hammer if you can't put a dolly behind it. Not ideal, you may not like the results on body panels and end up putting way more 'bondo' in than you want. not sure how much body work you've done but that's not ideal. I've done this in a pinch but occasionally needed to use a stud welder, heat and slap hammer to pull out areas that were sunk in too deep. in the end, it looked like **** but just fine for my quickie '50 foot' projects. that is, looks great at 50 feet.

not to over think things but if you do the body sheet metal and you want it to last, you need to think about spraying the bare metal with either etching primer or epoxy primer. this require spray equipment and a large compressor. Either way, for lasting results, I've gone with epoxy southern polyeurythane (SPI) makes good stuff. then bondo over that. then re-seal with epoxy since bondo will absorb paint and water and can start cracking and delaminating. this basically sandwiches the bondo and seals out water.

seam sealer, I meant more for the floors. helps smooth and seal the transition from new to old floor if you lap weld. If you butt weld the pieces, you won't need it. butt welding can be more difficult for starters. so non visible areas in non show vehicles, lap weld is what I do.

as for eastwood stuff, I assume you mean the 'por15' knock off sealer. not really as durable as you'd expect and it should be. similar can be said with rustoleum/rattle can. the epoxy primer can be used on the new floor panels without paint but again, you need spray equipment.

not sure what your overall goals are but if you plan on keeping the truck for a while, i'd do it as right as possible when talking rust prevention/paint otherwise you may be doing it again in a few years. worst case, pay to get it done.

 

[RustyRamFan]

Thanks for all the info!

What compressor would be good for 110 volts and what gun do you reccomend?

And do you prefer bondo or the fiberglass filler?

 

[avantiguy]

Thanks for all the info!

What compressor would be good for 110 volts and what gun do you reccomend?

And do you prefer bondo or the fiberglass filler?

For starters you can get a HVLP spray gun from harbor freight that will work fine for primers and floor painting. Look at their guns and see what cfm of air they use and be sure you get a compressor that will feed that no matter the voltage. You will also need a larger tip for primers than the normal one for painting.

The welding advice above is good but you bought the right welder MIG for starters. Easier to learn and doesn't need the cleanlyness for the TIG. Be sure to just weld in short sections and move around a lot. Trying to weld sheet metal in a long weld is sure to cause warping problems and burn through. Just keep filling in the small welds until the weld is continuous.

Leave a small gap between the pieces Less than the wire diameter of the welder and practice then some more practice. One trick for areas that can burnout is to used a piece of copper pipe flattened to back the area as weld doesn't stick well to copper and it will adsorb some heat.

Don't use POR 15 or clones on clean metal, it won't stick well. It need a rusty surface for adherence. Experience here.

Use epoxy primer and fill over that. I like Evercoat Rage body filler but most anything will work. Just be sure it's just a coating not an inch thick fill.

Fiberglass filler has more strength but for just coating reqular filler is fine.

 

[RustyRamFan]

You guys on this forum are so cool
And thanks!

Are you saying epoxy wont stick well to clean metal and only apply it to rusty metal?

Sorry I'm pretty new at this! Wanna make sure I understand. I want to get this right I plan on keeping this truck for life
(it's my weekend warrior/fun cruising vechile)

 

[reek]

…Don't use POR 15 or clones on clean metal, it won't stick well. It need a rusty surface for adherence. Experience here.

Use epoxy primer and fill over that. I like Evercoat Rage body filler but most anything will work. Just be sure it's just a coating not an inch thick fill.

Fiberglass filler has more strength but for just coating reqular filler is fine.

I second the Evercoat Rage recommendation. that's what I use. sorry if the 'bondo' statement was confusion. I meant that generically as most people new to bodywork only recognize that name.

Por15 and the like are not epoxy primer it's a 'rust encapsulator'. it has its uses but is not the holy grail of rusty body work short cuts like the manufacturer likes to think. epoxy primer will stick to bare metal and is highly recommended for bare metal. Epoxy primer is the base that you build off for all paint and body. it essentially seals in the metal and filler. I recommend SPI

https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/6620

as per compressor size, typically for spraying, you'll need a pretty large one to keep up with the tool. probably 50 gallons or bigger. its a tough call though, if this is a hobby you want to keep up, it's worth the investment. but if its a one time or limited frequency thing, you're dropping some $$ for minimal use.

 

[RustyRamFan]

So stay away from POR15 gotcha. I will use this epoxy stuff.

As for the dough, Alls I know is the quote I got said its gonna be 6 grand for them to do it, so as long as it's under that I'd say its worth doing it myself

Besides there is alot to learn from and i will be able to do this in 10 years from now when the dodge rusts again!

Besides it feels great to have so many manly tools and skills

 

[avantiguy]

You guys on this forum are so cool
And thanks!

Are you saying epoxy wont stick well to clean metal and only apply it to rusty metal?

Sorry I'm pretty new at this! Wanna make sure I understand. I want to get this right I plan on keeping this truck for life
(it's my weekend warrior/fun cruising vechile)

As member reek said, epoxy will stick great and should be used on bare metal. POR 15 is a different cat as he described and should not be used on bare metal.

 

[avantiguy]

So stay away from POR15 gotcha. I will use this epoxy stuff.

As for the dough, Alls I know is the quote I got said its gonna be 6 grand for them to do it, so as long as it's under that I'd say its worth doing it myself

Besides there is alot to learn from and i will be able to do this in 10 years from now when the dodge rusts again!

Besides it feels great to have so many manly tools and skills

Well said, the best way to learn is talk to folks that know how to do it and don't forget youtube. I started 60 yrs ago and you just learn and do it. If you "F" it up, fix it, you'll get it right in the end and you'll be proud to show folks what you did.

 

[reek]

So stay away from POR15 gotcha. I will use this epoxy stuff.

As for the dough, Alls I know is the quote I got said its gonna be 6 grand for them to do it, so as long as it's under that I'd say its worth doing it myself

Besides there is alot to learn from and i will be able to do this in 10 years from now when the dodge rusts again!

Besides it feels great to have so many manly tools and skills

I like where your head is!

that's EXACTLY how I got all of my equipment. my first full car paint quote for my first frame off restoration was $5000. It was a daily driver so didn't need to drop more on paint than the motor. So got a 80 gallon compressor, several spay guns, ran air lines through out my shop, wired in a 220v line and still came in well below the paint quote. I've since painted many more cars and each one keeps looking better and each one cost me the price of paint only. Plus I use my compressor for tools, plasma cutter, etc.....

I use the Eastwood concours gun with 1.3 tip for my single stage paint. get the Devilbiss cup adaptor, worth it.

https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-concours-2-hvlp-paint-gun-kit-in-aluminum-case.html

and harbor freight gun 1.7 tip for epoxy and 2.2 for 2k primer. so far that combo of guns gives me a good enough for daily use paint jobs.

Have fun!

 

[RustyRamFan]

I will stay away from por15 and use the epoxy and evercoat body filler. I cant wait to weld in and coat the panel! It will feel good to know it will last. Will tryout that Seam sealer at autozone!

Thanks for the tip about needing different size nozzles for primer vs epoxy and normal paint!

It is nice when it's all made properly and done myself, I totally agree!

I have contacted a local ma and pop welding supply store and they led me to dudes who knew a ton about welding, thanks for that tip! Btw they basically agreed with you all on everything. Same with youtube.

One of my dads friends is getting out of welding and is going to give me most of the tools I need except for an air compressor

As for those I'm definitely lost in the sause for which one to get.

I'm feeling new ones just because I'm hoping that will cutt down on time needed to understand how to buy a used one.

Should I get a cheapo 30 gallon tank oil-less and direct drive? And then upgrade when I get my own house in 5 or so years?

Or maybe buy an 50-80 gallon tank that's oil refillable and belt driven and can be easily converted from 110 volts to 220 volts so that when I get my own house in 5 years or so I'm golden then?

Horizontal vs vertical tanks? I think I'd prefer if the air compressor was able to be moved about the garage, but not for use like in the middle of a field.

Why do paint guns have different cfms and psi ratings on them and does this affect air gun and compressor choices?

Do the big box stores have interchangeable air compressor brand names? Are they good quality? (Harbor freight, menards, tractor supply ect). Or is there a better buy it for life option?

Thanks again guys!

P.S.
Most of what I can forsee my needs being for an air compressor for the next 5 years will be unrusting my truck, touch ups on my celica's paint and surface rust and maybe the odd job around the house. Maybe I might end up using for painting the garage?? I just graduated as an engineer so I wont need this outside of any weekend projects.

 

[reek]

getting some hand me down welding equipment is always a good deal. you usually end up with much better equipment than you can buy as a beginner.

I generally like to have too much compressor rather than match the compressor to the spray gun and come up short for other things. that literally limits the usefulness of the compressor to a certain degree. Having said that, if space/storage is an issue, then you do need to make the proper and to me, an even more difficult choice of which compressor to buy. Once you buy a house, get a nice, well built big compressor. in the grand scheme of things, it's not much more than a half assed compressor. you have some homework to do on compressors, 2 stage? 110/220v? oil or oil less? you gotta figure out what's good for your current situation. of note, I have about 3 compressors in my shop. one portable 5 gallon, a oil less 30 gallon and my big anchored 2 stage 80 gallon. all vertical tanks, more space efficient. I bought them as my needs grew over the years. interestingly, they all still get used.

 

[RustyRamFan]

Thanks Reek

Space isn't really an issue. I think I'll go with a 30ish gallon 110 volt that's somewhat portable and then I'll do the upgrade later on.

That's funny how every compressor still gets use!

Probably this kobalt right here:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-KOB...TN--7XtiuS67yeoCD8aBxXyemkkBOcscaAl4TEALw_wcB