Blackstone - used oil analysis

[Burla]

You said fell behind in areas but the devil is in the details, next to redline is HPL on bottom of wear tests and Amsoil even with low additives oil wasn't first. Maybe the bottom choice is actually better for a hemi? Why redline and HPL do not have best wear numbers is because of heavy additives in true high performance oils that both encourages good wear and discourage unhealthy wear, stuff that you wont see in a report such as metal fragments from things such as hemi tick. In applications such a as hemi's or high pressure engines like bmw's and with people who drive them on the edge, engine oils such as redline and HPL earn the worth. In a low displacement low HP engine, then lake's first place contender would be the best option for sure.

 

[Burla]

I really like that video, if you listen to what he is saying and not just looking at test results he does hit on a lot of things about application. Those tests were designed to what is beneficial in modern engines where deposits can end your engine in a second, whereas even when ram/Pennzoil designed a hemi specific oil as in pup 0w40 they specifically went away from stable 30 weights due to additive restrictions of API and designed an oil that shears and is loaded with additives, and btw has one of the cleanest base oils known to us hydrocracked GtL.

A famous test was amsoil's gear study, where they designed a test how much each area was worth or valued, and added areas that have nothing to do with quality such as "cost" versus falex testing which shows how that oil would test against stress. Redline was the only oil that literally tested off the charts on pin/vee block tests, but because the gave random values to how you "win" the title of best, the skewed how they read the test outcomes. Literally redline tested to the max of the machine, so telling how high it really tested. Even though the tests were all credible, it was the values that were suspect if the idea was to find an oil that would best protect gears from stress. And some oils will be better in copper wear for a long interval, but to be the best at pure stress like a HP applications, you need to sacrifice some areas to succeed in others.

Example, if a quart of canola oil was cheaper then redline and cost was part of the best title and they had pin/vee block as the other, if the tests were equal value on the score, the both oils tie. It even gets better, if they give cost as a value to final score of 60% and pin/vee as 40% in the area of testers opinion on what matters, then canola oil outperforms redline with the tests being completely legit, no lies where told. Always look at the big picture and like lake said it is all about application. The fact we have brands and names attached to brands, really messed up what matters. In a perfect world we would have one oil brand and many different formulas for specific applications.


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[Curmudgeon]

@Burla Agreed. Although the tests and results were "interesting" I was left wondering what it had to do with my specific application.

I will still be placing a higher value on the VOA/UOA reports from folks running the same basic engine I am, and using that engine in much the same manner, even if the the conditions/environment change from person to person.

I don't know anyone on this forum showing UOAs from a 2-hour extreme stress test in a lab and on a dyno. Also, like Oil Geek, folks here are also pretty forthcoming about their environment, stressors, OCI, etc.

In case it need repeating I have gone from using "some kind of motor oil" (thank you dealer!) but probably 5w-20 and maybe even Pennzoil, to RL 5w-30 (noticeably more quiet and smooth) and next to HPL SC 0w-30, just to try it.

I don't use my truck much and rarely if ever stress it (towing/hauling heavy) so spending more for oil/filter doesn't bother me.

In early 2026 I will have a UOA for the Red Line currently in my truck, and later 2026 I should have a UOA for the HPL SC. FWIW, the UOA from Pennzoil, RL, and HPL will show side-by-side on a single UOA report and posted here.

 

[Travis8352]

You said fell behind in areas but the devil is in the details, next to redline is HPL on bottom of wear tests and Amsoil even with low additives oil wasn't first. Maybe the bottom choice is actually better for a hemi? Why redline and HPL do not have best wear numbers is because of heavy additives in true high performance oils that both encourages good wear and discourage unhealthy wear, stuff that you wont see in a report such as metal fragments from things such as hemi tick. In applications such a as hemi's or high pressure engines like bmw's and with people who drive them on the edge, engine oils such as redline and HPL earn the worth. In a low displacement low HP engine, then lake's first place contender would be the best option for sure.

I think esters show higher wear numbers but its not actual wear its more so chelation or something. It seems every higher ester oil shows higher wear. Redline back in the day said even though UOAs showed high iron wear, engine teardowns always showed no visable wear

 

[Burla]

So yeah ions from esters, or more wear from zddp, or even copper with moly, we all know what happens with these items especially high levels of them. What you cant see is how these times protect. Why the white papers do matter, w/o them a super thin low additives oil will look like the best oil on earth for everything, which just isn't the case.

 

[Curmudgeon]

^ sounds like the same situation with Tin and Molybdenum, and at least Lake pointed that out and the Tin numbers were excluded from the total wear metals.
But what else?

 

[Burla]

How those items effect acid level would be another? Esters can create acid from the water that is naturally a byproduct of any engine diesel or ice, but that is why you have a high CA level with those. Depending on the level of water in any giving engine can effect the tan/tbn balance where as group 3 would have a better advantage on the speed of which tbn deletes when it comes to acid buildup from hydrolysis. How much of this comes into play in the real world, I didn't see any in my truck and I don't have a catch can, but that doesn't change the fact it is possible.

 

[JHoward]

A couple of v I r g I n VALVOLINE Extended Protection 0w/20 and 5W/30 oil sample reports that I sent to Blackstone last July/October to see "what is in them".

Thought that that I'd post them for viewing ...

$8.97 at the"Wal-mark" where I reside.

Note: I made an error when copying the brand type and labeled them Extended Performance when the actual brand type is Extended Protection.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Based on what I have seen and read here I have a good feeling about
Valvoline products, including for the 8-speed.

 

[JHoward]

Based on what I have seen and read here I have a good feeling about
Valvoline products, including for the 8-speed.

I thought that both these oils were decent for an oil and that is readily available right on the shelf.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I thought that both these oils were decent for an oil and that is readily available right on the shelf.

But, but... I wanna use what all the cool kids are using

 

[Rustypipes12]

I ran nothing but NAPA full synthetic the first 70k in my 09 TRX 4 . NAPA is Valvoline. I then went to Valvoline high mileage for the next 20k . When Restore & Protect came out I went to that . I just sold that truck with 120k on it. No hemi tick. I live up north do towing and visit my kids in the city with stop and go driving. I change my oil every 4k on a broke in motor

 

[CanuckRam1313]

All righty, All...

Here's my 10,650KM OCI report from Blackstone.

50/50 mix of HPL-SC 0W30 and RL-HP 5W30 (full jug of each used).
I've marked the other OCI report columns with the oil used then so we can compare each ones 10,000km results.
RP 20-820 oil filter used at every OCI.

TAN & TBN look pretty good, too!

Thoughts?

However, I will say that my truck, now that's it's back on straight HPL SC 0W30, is so quiet and happy!
Runs so smoothly on this oil that all I can hear, even on overnight sitting cold starts, is the injectors ticking.

She did not like RL HP 5W30 and was noisy on it.
Who knows why, but the results speak for themselves.

 

[Burla]

All righty, All...

Here's my 10,650KM OCI report from Blackstone.

50/50 mix of HPL-SC 0W30 and RL-HP 5W30 (full jug of each used).
I've marked the other OCI report columns with the oil used then so we can compare each ones 10,000km results.
RP 20-820 oil filter used at every OCI.

TAN & TBN look pretty good, too!

Thoughts?

However, I will say that my truck, now that's it's back on straight HPL SC 0W30, is so quiet and happy!
Runs so smoothly on this oil that all I can hear, even on overnight sitting cold starts, is the injectors ticking.

She did not like RL HP 5W30 and was noisy on it.
Who knows why, but the results speak for themselves.

looking forward to hpl run

 

[CanuckRam1313]

looking forward to hpl run

I am indeed!

Now that I'm fully on HPL SC 0W30 my engine is buttery smooth and so quiet that all I hear are the injectors ticking now. I'm just going to stick with 10,000KM (6215 miles) OCI's as the reports show this is not an issue.

Perhaps I should push 12,000KM (7457 miles) OCI's?

 

[Burla]

Your report is fantastic, copper is the only issue and that is trending down, eventhough you are using high moly oils. 7500 miles is a very reasonable ask of that oil with good filtration imo.

I am curious about the viscosity, maybe the engine is running so smooth you have less shear, or that si-1 increased it a bit, if I recollect you are a heavy user of it. Certainly isn't an issue, just a curiosity.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

Your report is fantastic, copper is the only issue and that is trending down, even though you are using high moly oils. 7500 miles is a very reasonable ask of that oil with good filtration imo.

I am curious about the viscosity, maybe the engine is running so smooth you have less shear, or that si-1 increased it a bit, if I recollect you are a heavy user of it. Certainly isn't an issue, just a curiosity.

A little longer run time on the oil is what I'm going to try this round, 7500-miles.
Then another lab report with TAN and TBN to see how it all looks.

I do use SI-1 and do a two bottle treatment usually 3 times a year (32 gallon tank).
I did a treatment cycle about 1000km's before this oil & filter change as well.
I only use premium fuel.

I currently only use the RP 20-820 oil filter.
Only have a couple of them left and then it's on to the XG2's.

 

[Bigpaul13]

Been a while so I got a test done to see how the old girl is holding up. First test is RL 5w30, second RL 0w30 and current RL 5w30.

 

[Burla]

Been a while so I got a test done to see how the old girl is holding up. First test is RL 5w30, second RL 0w30 and current RL 5w30.

Wow thanks for posting, amazing report obviously. We have seen this a couple times and my guess would be HPL would be similar. The heavy wear numbers we tend to see with HP oils tend to soften up with a commitment to that oil. They look as good as any low wear oil but still has much more protection. It is possible hemi honey is losing a little moly, we will have to keep an eye on that. more mileage and better wear cant top that, the engine is now in prime low wear age, but still long term use of this oil pays off. thanks again

 

[Burla]

potassium = coolant Not sure if ram coolant has potassium, perhaps not, so how do we know if ram has coolant contamination as our coolant is almost all ethylene glycol?

lead = bearings

both PDF from news letter.