Blackstone - used oil analysis

[Burla]

Just got my analysis back, a bit nervous on this one. Should next change include one quart of Redline now? And stick with 0w-40? Think not, but not sure what to use, thoughts?View attachment 583444

I wouldn't panic, the shear on the oil still reasonable. I wouldn't wait 4k miles though, I'd do one at 2k miles. And no don't add anything but pup 0w40, this may be a warranty item with that low miles yes?

Man this is why you do uoa's, how killer to have this evidence if you need it. I might take that down to my dealer as well.

 

[HEMIMANN]

And so, the typical, published data sheet viscosity average for new PUP 0W-40 is 13.7 cSt @ 100C.

Now look at your used oil report viscosity after only 4,000 miles. You can answer your own question right there.

https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/62c74c42-acce-421d-9618-823915463257.pdf

 

[Burla]

It's still in line with most pup 0w40 uoa's as far as shear.

 

[HEMIMANN]

It's still in line with most pup 0w40 uoa's as far as shear.

Which ain't good, is the point.

 

[tron67j]

I wouldn't panic, the shear on the oil still reasonable. I wouldn't wait 4k miles though, I'd do one at 2k miles. And no don't add anything but pup 0w40, this may be a warranty item with that low miles yes?

Man this is why you do uoa's, how killer to have this evidence if you need it. I might take that down to my dealer as well.

My truck is a 2018 2500 6.4, I am out of warranty.

 

[tron67j]

Should I consider 5w-40? My driving up until last year was some long distance trips with short hauls around town. Now driving is 80 miles round trip when I drive it, and at around 70 mph. I have a small car I tend to drive to save miles on the truck.

 

[Burla]

Along those lines you might opt for a 15w40 HD oil, but redline does make a great 5w40 that will be a good option for early wear but still great on other end for normal wear. A lot of effort is in 0w40 and 15w40 oils for different reasons. I would do the 2k miles and get the uoa to see what is up. Depending on what you or we can figure out where this wear is coming from might help you chose an oil. If it is start up wear you would want something flowing good at start up, if it is something out of tolerance or worse you would want a 15w40 at least but more importantly fix it. We don't even know if you had a filter issue at this point, do you still have filter? And there are no other signs at all? And there was no metal in oil?

 

[Burla]

If you have a boroscope I'd want to see those piston tops and see if you can see anything that would hint at rings. Just maybe there would be a carbon issue, might be an easy fix if so. Mise well check the compression on those cylinders as well.

 

[tron67j]

Along those lines you might opt for a 15w40 HD oil, but redline does make a great 5w40 that will be a good option for early wear but still great on other end for normal wear. A lot of effort is in 0w40 and 15w40 oils for different reasons. I would do the 2k miles and get the uoa to see what is up. Depending on what you or we can figure out where this wear is coming from might help you chose an oil. If it is start up wear you would want something flowing good at start up, if it is something out of tolerance or worse you would want a 15w40 at least but more importantly fix it. We don't even know if you had a filter issue at this point, do you still have filter? And there are no other signs at all? And there was no metal in oil?

I don't have the filter but still have the oil, I will put a magnet in the oil and see if any fine particles come out, assuming any such material would be big enough to see. Should I do the horoscope and compression testing now or wait for the next oil change to see if it was an anomaly? I ask because I would have to buy both tools and while not expensive I probably would never use either again. Just wondering if such a change in reading so quickly might have been a fluke and if okay to wait for next report before deciding it must be the engine and not maybe the filter I used, for example.

 

[Burla]

Your uoa "suggests" it isn't mandatory action time, but it suggests a problem came up. So yeah even Blackstone is telling you it is ok to proceed cautiously, but no action "needed". Whenever you do get both items if you get both items, do them at once as they use the same hole, so good timing to do both together so you are not pulling and setting plugs multiple times. That is why I like a 2k window, it will re-verify without procrastinating too much. I'm not giving an opinion if it is safe, but I could see me doing the same thing. Since you don't have filter we cant tell if maybe the bypass was broke and it was choking the oil on start up, which is surely possible. Do you happen to remember what filter was used?

 

[Travis8352]

Shame no filter id say cut er open! I recomend going right to redline 5w-40, thats about the stoutest redline around! 40% POE as well. I guess first thing id do to is pull a sample at 1000 or 1500 miles maybe even 2000 and see what that iron is doing. Maybe swap a filter and cut open the one you have on now. If you do have a lifter going out id say its best to do a cam and lifter now

 

[tron67j]

Your uoa "suggests" it isn't mandatory action time, but it suggests a problem came up. So yeah even Blackstone is telling you it is ok to proceed cautiously, but no action "needed". Whenever you do get both items if you get both items, do them at once as they use the same hole, so good timing to do both together so you are not pulling and setting plugs multiple times. That is why I like a 2k window, it will re-verify without procrastinating too much. I'm not giving an opinion if it is safe, but I could see me doing the same thing. Since you don't have filter we cant tell if maybe the bypass was broke and it was choking the oil on start up, which is surely possible. Do you happen to remember what filter was used?

It was a royal purple, the one that is called for it. I don't remember the exact model but the short one.

 

[tron67j]

One thing I'm wondering, I didn't drive it much over the winter so I'm wondering if it was an issue where that was causing excessive wear. I might have gone a week or more without starting it.

 

[Burla]

The 6.4 calls for the small RP? Had you used that before? What's on there now? Even good filters can have defect, if this was the issue.

Yeah I see that is crazy, much smaller then the xg2 the 10060. I cant believe they put that on the 6.4. Hope isn't a strategy, but I hope this is the case. Can you see the butt plate on the filter? Is there 1/2 inch or so, the xg2 is .66 wider, if you can use that I would. Everything else should be good. I think hemimann used the 20-500 for this reason, sadly doubt that is still around. I can tell you that 10060 is a restrictive filter, even had a tsb, here is there clone to your filter..

The AMSOIL Ea15K50 filter warning, largely active around 2021, concerns potential low oil pressure issues, particularly in 2013-2018 RAM 1500/2500 trucks (5.7L/6.4L HEMI engines

This is a clone filter to rp10060. @HEMIMANN what are his options for a larger filter?

Ebay has a couple/few rp20-500 for around 50 bucks. In this case I'd get one, because if this is the issue, you can rock on bypass it for future. Worth the squeeze if a filter terns out to be the issue. 20-500 for a run would verify. We know the 20-500 fits the 6.4.

 

[HEMIMANN]

No, 20% sheardown in 4,000 is NOT good. At all.

Red Line 5W-30 had no shear down whatsoever in my 6.4 Hemi near 5,000 miles, their 0W-30 sheared app. 8%.

 

[Burla]

The 5w40 redline is a proven tick killer, but the 5w30 is proven tick killer and incredibly shear resistant even in hemi tick engine like mine. High wear numbers but still 12.2 visc. My point on shear if we had something in the engine like a super sharp point from damage, you can see that really shear an oil especially the 0w40 PUP = high shear oil. I would say 5w30 is proven in the 6.4 and in this case with such low shear a good choice to gauge if there is something in the engine causing excess shear, but I'm not thinking this is the issue. Still possible yes, so worth a shot tossing 5w30 redline for a run because if that oil shears you know what type of issue is the source. I don't think 5w40 redline gives you that, but I also think 5w40 is a good choice here but my instinct says that isn't what happened here. Someone wanting a 40 weight like Tron I can see the 5w40 redline. For me and Brian we know the 5w30 is a good move, both would be good for different reasons, as the 5w40 is "thicker".

Brian what filter options Tron have here?

 

[tron67j]

I used Royal Purple 10-48 filters prior 2 oil changes, current filter is a RP 20-500. I plan to change oil out at 2k and I had already ordered another 20-500 but if I should try something else I have no problem. I live in MD and my truck is garaged, needing protection below 20 degrees is the exception. I am thinking trying the 5w-30 next to see what happens. I bought the 20-500 filter in in mid-2022, one of the 10-48 filters in early 2022, and the other 10-48 in mid-2023. I don't know which 10-48 I used first. However, still interested to hear ideas. This isn't what I expected.

 

[Burla]

20-500 is good, as long as that one wasn't on this report, which is correct I believe. In fact if you can source those at a decent price, they store well, just saying. The 10-48 was always a problem filter, just because it worked on some vehicles doesn't mean it should have been. I mean Amsoil actually said don't use it eventhough most customers say it's good, the problem is when it is bad, it is a bad low pressure situation. I think you have enough to go on, looking for the 2k uoa GL bro. With that 20-500 that will tell us a story on that uoa.

 

[Hootbro]

@tron67j shearing I would say is pretty normal with Pennzoil 0W-40 and pretty much mirrors what I had with my 2015 2500 6.4L. I have included below my five Blackstone oil analysis at roughly 5K intervals. The last oil analysis was with 5W-30 but the last four to include the factory fill was with Pennzoil Platinum 0w-40. Those all showed similar shearing down to either just staying in grade or just out but the iron levels did drop down to universal averages after the break in wear metals flushed out. Unfortunately I have no data beyond this as i traded the vehicle off shortly after the last report.

I do not think any different oil or oil filter is going to fix or alleviate this. At best, it may reduce the wear rate but unless some trapped swarf became loose in his engine, there is metal on metal wear that has broken through the surface harness layer. Usual suspects of lifter, cams and timing chain wear can come into play here.

One adverse data point is not necessarily how things will trend, but another similar mileage run with a sample and analysis will show where things are heading and then better decisions can be made off that data.

 

[White six four]

One thing I'm wondering, I didn't drive it much over the winter so I'm wondering if it was an issue where that was causing excessive wear. I might have gone a week or more without starting it.

When you'd go a week or so without starting it would you get any startup clatter when you did?